Viewing 40 posts - 321 through 360 (of 489 total)
  • Carrying a knife
  • funkmasterp
    Full Member

    Does it have a knife blade on it? Because if it does, the first statement is untrue is it not?

    Honestly can’t recall if it does. Either way it wouldn’t be a need it would be a choice. As per my previous post nobody needs to carry a knife. If you want to or choose to then fine.

    aphex_2k
    Free Member

    Guns for show. Knives, for a pro.

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Honestly can’t recall if it does

    I’m guessing that as you were talking in the context of ‘making meals’ that it probably does?

    Fair enough. I’ll be honest though, to say in one breath that you’ve never felt the need to carry a knife and in the next that you have carried and occasionally used one feels a little disingenuous. Whatever the semantics of need/want.

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    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Yep on tour the choice would be a knife or a shit diet. Trying to chop an onion with an Allen key or an adjustable spanner is a bit shit

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    Drac
    Full Member

    I’ll take the silence as there isn’t any. I’m not sure ‘but Drac said it was OK’ would swing it with the cops.

    Oh I’m frightfully sorry I missed your reply, I hope you haven’t sat up all night waiting. I feel terrible now.

    Your wooden spoon however, Im sure you would never leave home without that.

    Whittled it myself, it’s handy as it be used to spread butter

    That’s pretty cool @TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Oh I’m frightfully sorry I missed your reply, I hope you haven’t sat up all night waiting. I feel terrible now.

    It’s OK, I’m retired so I can have an easy day to rest up! Can I take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking bollocks? 😉

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Does it have a knife blade on it? Because if it does, the first statement is untrue is it not?

    It doesn’t matter if it has a knife on it or not. The point is he carries a tool that he feels the need to carry.

    It’s more than feasible that this pack gets used for other non bike or not offroad adventures, and does he remove the tool from it ?. I would think probably not.

    So in the point of this exercise he carries a handy tool he may need, even if its not directly for a bicycle. This point of fact applies not only to the Funkmasterp, but to anyone posting on this thread.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Can I take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking bollocks?

    I gave you answer right at the start. You have it as part of a toolkit in a locked seat. I’d say that’s very justifiable reason to have one.

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    dissonance
    Full Member

    Guns for show. Knives, for a pro.

    Yeah thats what the tutor at my cooking class said. Apparently using a submachine gun to slice the sunday roast is dangerous. Health and safety gone mad.
    Didnt even have chance to use the shotgun to mash the potatos.

    2

    No one’s going to admit it on here, but I wonder if there’s a hypocritical crossover of people that partake in a bit of the old charlie of a weekend, but get oh so offended by knives.

    Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t, just musing

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    And I agree with you Drac, but the law doesn’t. As scapegoat explained, the police are not allowed to use their discretion in that scenario over the ‘lawful excuse’ bit with knife offences. Only the courts are. So you would be arrested, charged and appear in court. It’s possible, that the evidence would be heard in your favour and you’d be found not guilty, no guarantees though. But if you were, it would only be after a distressing, expensive, career limiting and time consuming experience. So – I have decided it’s not worth the risk, even if I’ve got a note from my mum Drac, saying it’s OK! 😉

    1
    namastebuzz
    Free Member

    What this thread has highlighted is that – the law is an ass.

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    convert
    Full Member

    – the law is an ass.

    explain…if you can.
    Screenshot 2024-02-16 101922
    This knife (photo chosen for the tomato bothering) folds. But when not folded and locked it looks pretty damn effective if in a bit of bother. As has already been explained, unless we want a shed ton of unreasonable favouritism, giving the tools to the police to address people carrying said tomato slicers does not seem too outlandish. As has again already been pointed out – there is already some privilege baked in to how the law is used and applied.

    I’m struggling to see where the problem is.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Well I’ll be sticking with the victorinox signature in my wallet, and the old penknife in my jacket, but I’ll remove the leatherman from my bag so it never comes out with me.

    Plus i’d polished the leatherman blade pivot area and lubed it so it came out one handed on the thumb very easily.  So maybe that feature of it might not mean even if its away locked in a bag its secure enough to try some sort of legal claim.

    Drac
    Full Member

    And I agree with you Drac, but the law doesn’t. As scapegoat explained, the police are not allowed to use their discretion in that scenario over the ‘lawful excuse’ bit with knife offences.

    Indeed it may go all the way to court but I’m not sure the police are going to waste their time doing that if it were clear why you had it.

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Yep. They might ignore their own guidelines and you might get lucky.  It’s a big roll of the dice though.

    2
    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Looking specifically at the effective ban* on locking knives. What is the point? What does it achieve?

    It’s a safety feature, designed to prevent injury. Because of this it is a common feature on multi tools and small utility knives.

    I don’t know the stats, but I can’t imagine Leathermans and the like are favoured by stabby types over a big stabby chef’s knife. Even if they were, how much attention are they likely to pay to that aspect of the law?

    What effect has this had on reducing knife crime?

    It’s bad law. It criminalises the law abiding, it forces people to choose less safe options. It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.

    *I know you can have one with ‘lawful excuse’ but we have established that you can only prove that via a traumatic court appearance.

    namastebuzz
    Free Member

    I’m struggling to see where the problem is.

    The problem, like with a lot of other legislation, is that the law prevents perfectly law abiding people from doing what they’ve been doing, safely, for years in order to combat a small minority who go round committing a specific crime – in this case, stabbing people.

    I’m unaware of the effectiveness of the knife carrying laws but stabbings don’t appear to be diminishing in number.

    Personally, I’m going to continue carrying a Leatherman or an Opinel as I see fit.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.

    For a knife of less than 3in it is crap. The same could be said of most fixed blades of the same length though.
    Which was what the lawyer/judge seemed to have decided on when decided a lock knife didnt count as a folding knife.

    I don’t know the stats, but I can’t imagine Leathermans and the like are favoured by stabby types over a big stabby chef’s knife.

    If you want to stab someone then yes something a tad bigger is best and ideally one with a crossguard. However if you want to slash someone then there is a long history of people using stanleys and the like.
    A leatherman would less useful but other locking knives might work as well and writing a law to separate them would be tricky.

    4
    tjagain
    Full Member

    It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.

    What it does is allow police to arrest folk with stabby knives before they stab someone

    irc
    Full Member

    “I’m unaware of the effectiveness of the knife carrying laws but stabbings don’t appear to be diminishing in number.”

    They did in Glasgow. The new laws combined with high numbers of stop searches reduced knife crime and probably saved lives.

    The laws themselves won’t do anything. If a ned thinks here is almost no chance he will be searched he will keep carrying.

    “By 2016-17, the number of people admitted to Glasgow’s hospitals with slashes and stab wounds had fallen by 65%.”

    ” we increased stop and search, we spoke to the government and they changed the legislation to increase the sentence for carrying a knife. ”

    https://theweek.com/100066/how-glasgow-is-beating-knife-crime

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    What it does is allow police to arrest folk with stabby knives before they stab someone.

    The police can arrest someone with ANY implement if they have reasonable suspicion that it is intended to be used for violence.

    Is a 3″ penknife  with a non locking blade, which they could carry legally, practically any less stabby than a locking blade 3″ inch pen knife which they can’t. What is the logic?

    How many scrotes are arrested with £100 Leathermans anyway?

    What effect has this had on reducing knife crime?

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    I’m not arguing against controls on knives more generally, but those on small lock blades specifically.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    What is the logic?

    The logic is that they want to minimise peoples options to get stabby or slashy whilst allowing people to cut their organic sourdoughs and air matured salamis whilst out and about.
    So they went for its ok if its under 3inches and folding.
    The latter I think was chosen because fixed/retracting knives like stanleys are quite popular as weapons.

    When it went to court a lawyer argued and the judge agreed (in several cases including appeals) that since a lock will stop the knife from folding it therefore doesnt count as one. Hence illegal.

    How many scrotes are arrested with £100 Leathermans anyway?

    Unlikely many but if they were made legal I expect the numbers sold would increase.

    1
    namastebuzz
    Free Member

    The number of fatal stabbings in England and Wales is at its highest level since records began more than 76 years ago.

    Figures from the Office for National Statistics show 282 homicides were committed using a knife or sharp instrument in the year to March 2022.

    This is a 19% rise compared with the previous year – and the highest annual total since records began in 1946, according to the ONS.

    It doesn’t mention what percentage were carried using a Leatherman®, however.

    funkmasterp
    Full Member

    No one’s going to admit it on here, but I wonder if there’s a hypocritical crossover of people that partake in a bit of the old charlie of a weekend, but get oh so offended by knives.

    wha!

    I’m not offended by them in the slightest. I just find it amusing that some are claiming to need a knife on them. It’s just funny.

    To answer the other question. The multi-tool does have a knife in it. Looking at the condition I don’t think it’s ever been used. It has also never left my Camelback and only ever comes out on bike rides where I take the Camelback. It’s not even really an active choice anymore, it’s just there.

    Also, I have never partaken of the nose candy.

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    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Brilliant thread this. Best part was Johnny Too Bad, but several other highlights.

    I don’t even like tomatoes, so you can slice them with a hammer for all I care?

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    Drac
    Full Member

    No one’s going to admit it on here, but I wonder if there’s a hypocritical crossover of people that partake in a bit of the old charlie of a weekend, but get oh so offended by knives.

    It’s likely to be the other way around I’d have thought.

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    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    This thread is peak STW 👍

    Well done everyone! Keep it up ;)

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    somafunk
    Full Member

    It’s great ain’t it?, I’ll ask my mum to dig out her Xmas pics from 1984, think that was the year I got a Webley Tempest .22 air pistol, 4 boxes of pellets, Abu Garcia 7ft spinning rod & Abu Garcia spinning reel with maxima line and fishing box, and a Rambo knife (black) with compass on the end and fishing kit/matches in the handle. I was severely disappointed with the Rambo knife as it was very bendy and the blade was made of cheese. I got a very cool butterfly knife for my birthday at the end of January though so was very happy, along with a new KX80 motocross bike and a 22cc chainsaw as I used to help my dad in the woods, my job was to brash the trees before he would come along and cut them down, then I had to bing the pulp and throw the brash into the centre so the forwarder could collect.

    Living in the wilds of Argyll was great as a kid

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    Drac
    Full Member

    You only had air pistol?

    Unrestricted .22 rifle for me at 8 years old, it had been my dad’s before that hence no restrictions on it. It would punch through 1/4” plywood from a hundreds away. Knives were a must for helping cut kindling for our fires too or sharpening the ground spike for the snares or nets when hunting with ferrets. No cheapy fake Rambo ones though, not good enough.

    Living outside a market town in Northumberland was also great.

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    Cougar
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t, however, use it to prise the lids off tins – that’s what a screwdriver is for

    And to think, I once held you in high regard.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    the police are not allowed to use their discretion in that scenario over the ‘lawful excuse’ bit with knife offences. Only the courts are

    “Allowed” or no, it’s still reliant on them to start the process.

    Looking specifically at the effective ban* on locking knives. What is the point? What does it achieve?

    We’ve discussed this. The ban is specifically for fixed blade knives. In the eyes of the law (because yay, test cases) a locking knife when locked is effectively a fixed blade.

    It’s bad law. It criminalises the law abiding, it forces people to choose less safe options. It does nothing, absolutely nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Convince me otherwise.

    I’m wholly in agreement with you. But laws penalising the law-abiding whilst being impotent against criminals seems to be something of a theme of late.

    What it does do however, and we’ve discussed this too, is empower the police to act without having to jump through hoops.

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    convert
    Full Member

    The police can arrest someone with ANY implement if they have reasonable suspicion that it is intended to be used for violence.

    You make the point for the current law perfectly. Two groups of 3 lads stood outside a shop doing nothing other than chatting – the reasonable suspicion is pretty tenuous. “These 3 lads are in their 50s and whilst not actually carrying a tomato look the sort who might like to slice one at any moment so any stabby equipment on their person is surely for a good and honourable reason. But these 3 lads, well they are a bit young for tomato slicing and maybe a little ‘dark’ so fair play that’s good enough reason to put them in the cells.” The law is not to take knives off kids in the throws of battle but so they can approach in a time if “peace” and not get tied up in knots about why they can’t have them because basically their don’t look nice enough. A clear cut law. A clear cut law with no ambiguity and need to resort to profiling. No one gets the good stuff unless it’s bloody obvious from what they are doing it’s needed. Society all walk at the pace of the slowest. See speeding. If a few old boys don’t get to carry their beloved knife of choice, that really is no Biggie. Other knives are available.

    Is a 3″ penknife with a non locking blade, which they could carry legally, practically any less stabby than a locking blade 3″ inch pen knife which they can’t. What is the logic?

    I’d say yes. Look at the opinel photo I put above. Once locked it is effectively the same as any 3 inch kitchen knife – A pretty standard and effective yoof weapon. Whilst I’ve never actually plunged a knife into a body, I did do a bit of training whilst still in uniform and a folding blade could get you seriously unstuck when actually stabbing with one. Conversely when tomato slicing (other food stuffs are available) or even whittling I’m really struggling to find a scenario where a lock is going to make me safer. I know it’s there as a safety feature, but it’s one I just don’t think is that needed in normal non-stabby use.

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    convert
    Full Member

    Btw – I’m not saying folding blades are safe and could not be used as a weapon. Just that’s where the line was drawn to give at least some concession to tomato slicing addicts so they can go about their food stuff butchery without breaking the law. Almost like a compromise was reached to help the police to do their job of keeping people safe and normal people not being untowardly prevented from carrying on effectively as normal.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    That’s the thing with safety features though. It’s always an unnecessary hassle right up until the day it isn’t.

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    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    I think my contributions to this thread are drawing to a close, I’m not sure the endless circular discussion will achieve much, and that’s my fault as much as anyone’s.

    I do however leave you with some uplifting news. Whilst bemoaning the loss to my motorbike tool kit of my ancient (and now ‘illegal’) Gerber, I remembered another I had stashed away, first purchased in a US army PX in Germany as a fresh faced squaddie in the 1980s. Festering in a long forgotten box of junk in my garage. I couldn’t quite remember, but on checking I found to my joy that it has the pliers and useful stuff, but crucially a non locking blade!

    So once again I can cruise the Kings highway knowing I’ve made the world a safer place and free from the worry of becoming big Vern’s bitch in cell block H. I know you’ve all been worried about that prospect as much as I have. Ciao 🙂

    PXL_20240216_144950926

    somafunk
    Full Member

    You only had air pistol?

    Can’t carry an air rifle in a rucksack though, ;)

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    johnx2
    Free Member

    I know you’ve all been worried about that prospect as much as I have.

    I’m actually worried that the adjustable spanner may be a forgery. And what’s that green thing do?

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    And what’s that green thing do?

    It’s a part roll of electrical insulation tape, squashed to fit. I am now unduly worried about the provenance of my adjustable, are you pleased with yourself? 😉

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