Viewing 40 posts - 161 through 200 (of 489 total)
  • Carrying a knife
  • Cougar
    Full Member

    It’s a complete red herring and has been put in place to paper over a massive societal crack just to say something has been done.

    Of course it is. Banning knives doesn’t stop yoots from carrying knives, it just empowers the police to charge them for it. A knife ban which was actually effective would just mean they’d all carry screwdrivers instead.

    It’s nuts but symptomatic of the society we live in and the politics that we see as normal.

    I’m less convinced over the “society of today” argument. That’s just an old man shouting at clouds. We’ve had antisocial thugs for as long as we’ve had people, it’s not a modern-day phenomenon.

    Drac
    Full Member

    It’s a daft bit of legislation and the stats tell the story that it obviously isn’t working. I’m 50, have a shotgun certificate but in the eyes of the law can’t be trusted to walk up the road with a small lock knife in my pocket

    You can walk with a knife in your pocket if you have justification for it, spearing Kerry Gold wouldn’t be one. Having a shotgun licence is irrelevant, you surely know the strict conditions for having one?

    I had one for about 10 years. Didn’t renew it when the kids came along. As I currently stands I’d unlikely get it renewed just now. I can however buy a knife.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    have a shotgun certificate but in the eyes of the law can’t be trusted to walk up the road with a small lock knife in my pocket.

    If you have a valid reason to carry the knife you can. Not dissimilar to the shotgun really.
    If you are going shooting game then having the shotgun and knife would be fine.
    However the police finding either on you in a city centre pub ten minutes before closing would not go down so well.

    petrieboy
    Full Member

    Anyone carrying a locking knife as a matter of course safe in the knowledge that they’re sufficiently white and cuddly that you’ll  never be stopped and searched and if they are, the jolly nice policeman will easily be able to identify them as a jolly fine chap and send them on their way – consider this

    If the nice officer treats you differently because you’re white and wearing a fleece and you’re not black with a north face jacket, it might look like he’s a teensy weensy bit racist. Police officers hate being caught being racist. Get stopped with a locking knife without an excuse beyond “they’re might be cheese” and you can be certain you’re having a day in court. And it will ruin your day

    you may not like that, but the law doesn’t much care what you think of it.

    (White cuddly man, old enough to fondly remember whittling sticks in the woods but now largely happy to live in the real world)

    Cletus
    Full Member

    I am surprised how much concern there is over carrying a small knife. I have had a Leatherman CS1 on my keychain for 10+ years and find a use for it probably twice a week. It has a non-locking 4cm blade a small screwdriver and some fairly useless scissors.

    The most common use is opening packaging but it have used it to do things like create a tyre boot from an punctured inner tube.

    I also have a Gerber Dime which lives in my laptop bag. It has pliers, scissors, a box cutter and a 3.5cm blade. Not as good quality as a Leatherman but the pliers are useful and it has a bottle opener :).

    Do people really never need to use a knife? – how do you open boxes, remove tags etc?

    Aidy
    Free Member

    Do people really never need to use a knife? – how do you open boxes, remove tags etc?

    I rarely come across random packages in the street that I’d want to open.

    If I’m at home, I just get whichever sharpish instrument happens to be closest. It’s a lot less overall effort to go fetch a knife when I need one than carry one 24/7 on the off-chance I need to open a box.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    I also(this is no doubt not a surprise now to many here) have a victorinox signature small penknife that lives in my wallet, along with a small Trend flat fine diamond sharpening thingy.

    Thats lived in there since the early 90’s, and has a little nail file/screwdriver,tweezers,toothpick,scissors(long blunted) and small blade- blade is 1 1/2″ long.

    I think this is more acceptable to stw as its one of the limited edition ones and has a mountainbike on it 🙂

    reeksy
    Full Member

    You can get fined for not carrying one here (not really, though all garden/hardware stores sell massive machetes and various locking knives). Fines are massive for carrying in public, but no responsible adult would be searched without reason.IMG_7284

    CountZero
    Full Member

    Agree about the EDC lot. It’s definitely got a lot of crossover with gun rights, sovereign citizens and pseudomilitary LARPers.
    Bit harsh. 😂

    Also bloody stupid. As is this:

    Going shanked in case you need to slice an apple? Who on earth needs to slice apples at work? Or tomatoes. Don’t say chefs. I find biting does the job.

    Shanked? Seriously? Did you grow up in the prison system, or does using an inflammatory term like that make you feel in some way more self important?

    UK knife law is ridiculous. It only affects the law abiding, it dumbs down and infantilises us, it slowly and surely erodes a small aspect of personal freedom and it does nothing – absolutely nothing to stop knife crime. It’s enacted by cynical politicians to appease the pearl clutchers and red tops knowing fine well that the scrotes it’s aimed at will completely ignore it.  Tackling the deprivation, inequality, poverty and other social issues which cause violent crime is far harder, so better to enact another meaningless piece of legislation to be seen to be doing something. The extra controls on lock knives are particular stupid, as a locking knife blade is a safety feature designed to prevent injury.

    Now that shows proper, clear thinking – the sort of crimes carried out in recent months where youngsters have been murdered by some other teenager, in a couple of cases as young as fourteen, are nearly always premeditated, and the weapons are almost always a kitchen knife stolen from the family kitchen, or shoplifted from a local hardware store, or else something like a screwdriver, which is in someways more dangerous, because a flat-bladed screwdriver can punch through pretty thick materials, is safer to carry concealed, and easier to dispose of.
    And as above, if someone is intent on carrying an illegal weapon for illegal purposes, then clearly they aren’t going to give a shit about whether what they’re doing is illegal, are they?

    To the sanctimonious pearl-clutchers on here, try some actual joined-up thinking before finger-wagging at anyone who dares to say they carry a pocket knife with them.
    I actually used to take a little two-blade Wilkinson Sword pocket knife to school, I used it to sharpen my pencils in art and technical drawing, because the sharpeners in the classroom used to keep snapping the points off – I could get a nice fine point on a pencil to do fine construction lines with, and also quite easily shove it into someone’s neck or eye!

    The only time I don’t have a knife with me is if I’m going into a music venue that’s likely to have detecting equipment set up, like O2 venues, in which case it gets left behind. I actually had one of my Opinel knives in my bag today, but normally I only have my Heinnie CRKT Pilar, which is specifically made for Heinnie by CRKT as a U.K. legal carry – their U.K. legal carry versions of locking knives have  dark red handle scales to identify them.
    This one I used to carry much of the time, but I stopped just in case I lost it; it has too much family history to risk losing it – it’s owner was carrying it when he was killed at Arras in WW1

    This is my Pilar, a beautiful little knife, very simple, no back spring, just strong friction on the blade to help prevent it swinging closed on your fingers, and a deep choil at the base of the blade that stops the blade closing on your fingers while actually being used.

    I was using it today for cutting back some brambles that were starting to grow out across a stile onto a path, but there isn’t a day goes by without me using it for something; often stupidly thick plastic packaging that teeth or fingernails can’t possibly break through.
    It gets used for trimming dead or damaged branches or stems on plants as well.

    Most people need to carry a knife on a day to day basis in the same way they need to own an SUV. The motivation behind it is pretty similar.

    Bollocks. Yet more stupid hyperbole. *rolls eyes*.

    All those carrying a knife most days, what do you use it for? Do you eat an apple with cheese like my long gone grandad did?  Do you do knot tying demos to the descendants of the Famous 5?

    All the things that my teeth and fingernails can’t do.

    Next!

    It’s a shame you can’t get tins with ring pulls.

    Drac, there are plenty of tins that don’t have ringpulls; I have several tin-openers that just will not open modern cans because of the way the rim is constructed – I have s couple of those little keyring openers, they are extraordinarily good at opening pretty much any can you can get.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    defbladeFree Member
    Conversely to many on here, I’m surprised how many people never find a job to do that is easier with a small edge to hand. Or maybe I’m not, they just come and ask me to do it. Perhaps it depends if you’re a “handy” sort of person or not?

    Are attitudes being sculpted by the fear pushed via mass media? Are people just getting more and more used to everything being served up in some sort of “convenience” form? Prefer to go and buy a solution, or do without, rather than work with what’s in front of them?

    I find it slightly sad that so many folks on here seem to think there’s anything odd about having a penknife with you most of the time; and worse that many are being, frankly, insulting about the “type” of person they think does – as if it is covering some flaw in their personality; a crutch for their masculinity; a show of their “power”. It may be those things in the case of huge zombie knives; in the case of legal penknives though, it’s more a small sign, a quiet declaration perhaps at most, of competence.

    In my RH trouser pocket, you will pretty much always find a hankie, a Lipsyl, nail clippers… and a pen knife. Sub 3″, non-locking. Since childhood. I currently like friction folders, they can be designed to be safe in use without breaking the law. I have, um, many penknives; I like the sheer variety of designs that end up doing the same job. I have just one locking folder for camping, a Leatherman which stays at home, and also a Topeak Alien with locking blade in my saddlebag (so there will always be reason to have that when it’s with me).

    I am a very normal, boring, person. I have a family hatchback, not an SUV. I have a professional medical job. I am a Scout Leader (which may, or may not, have any bearing on knife use). I cycle. When you’re looking about for a knife, I will be handing you one. Carefully – it’s sharp. I can also help with broken nails, but you probably wouldn’t want my hankie, and I draw the line at sharing my Lipsyl.

    I will also be very likely to have a torch to hand as well, but that’s somehow got less “odd” since everyone has a mobile with an LED on the back.

    Exactly my thoughts, sir! I am a descendent of a very, very, very long line of sapient hominid tool-users, and among the very earliest of those tools, carefully worked from hard stone or volcanic glass, were knife blades. Those toolmakers were Homo Neanderthals as well as Homo Sapiens, and those tools go back at least 100,000 years. Knife blades and hand axes are the two most common tools found wherever signs of human or human-adjacent existence is found.

    Ask yourselves, why is that, exactly? It wouldn’t be because a sharp blade is an extraordinarily adaptable tool, would it?

    Which is why I’ve carried a knife practically every day for most of my close-on 70 years.
    I don’t carry a SAK, because the design makes it all too easy to have the blade fold shut across the back of my fingers, which has happened a number of times, cue much cursing, copious amounts of blood and time wasted finding something to stop said bleeding. That can’t happen with my Pilar.
    I do have a Gerber multitool, in case I might need a saw, or a pair of pliers, but I can absolutely guarantee that my Gerber gets used maybe once every few months, the Pilar, or an Opinel, several times a day.

    batfink
    Free Member

    This thread is hard work

    Want to carry a knife with you of varied and non-specific reasons?  Cutting fruit, freeing small children from zipties, escaping burning cars?  Thats cool – you are 100% within your rights to do so – no need to waffle on about the decline of society, wokeness or the nanny-state….. you are not being oppressed. It just needs to be the size of a normal penknife (ie: less than 3″) and not have a locking blade.  SAK or anything similar is more than sufficient for that kind of manley behavior.

    Want to carry a knife bigger than that, or with a locking blade?  Fine, you can do that – you just need to have a good reason for it.  What a “good reason” is will be decided by the policeman who finds it on your person.  The law is specifically written to allow for the application of judgement – which is a good thing, but it’s not your judgement, it the judgement of somebody else – hence good advice would be to ask yourself whether a normal penknife is sufficient  rather than a large/locking blade.  Opinels seem to be a particular bone of contention as people seem to regard them as “old timey penknives” whereas they fall into the locking category, even if tiny with a rounded tip.

    The law is specifically written in a way to allow whining old farts like us to continue to carry around our penknife for varied, non-specific purposes, whilst allowing to police to arrest somebody carrying a 5″ sabatier tucked into their waistband down the local park, even if they claim to use it to slice tomatoes for their midnight sandwich.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Batfink has it.

    Countzero is miles off.

    I have s couple of those little keyring openers, they are extraordinarily good at opening pretty much any can you can get.

    They are. One less reason to carry a knife but I also don’t carry tins around with me in the outdoors. If I did I’d probably just get one of the many with a ring pull.

    funkmasterp
    Full Member

    Do people really never need to use a knife? – how do you open boxes, remove tags etc?

    I use my hands for both those things. Snap tags and, wait for it, take the tape off the package or use the handy pull tab a lot of them tend to have. I know, crazy! On the rare occasion I can’t remove a tag by hand I’ll use scissors. Unless you’re lost in the wilderness you probably don’t need a knife. Wanting one is fine, needing one just comes across as odd.

    lucasshmucas
    Full Member

    Using a well made, nicely designed, sharp knife is a pleasure. Yes they may be unnecessary, but so are expensive watches, pens or cars. This thread has reminded me that I haven’t bought one for a little while so I’m going to have to remedy that.

    kilo
    Full Member

    Do people really never need to use a knife? – how do you open boxes, remove tags etc?

    Exactly, I carry mine so I can swiftly kill dogs I meet on trails . The little saw on it also allows me to dismember the corpses (and those of their owners too). You couldn’t do that with your liberal, woke, snowflake scissors.
    I’ll give you my penknife when you pry it from my cold, dead hands (or a nice policeman takes it off me).

    convert
    Full Member

    Good work there Batfink.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    Shanked? Seriously? Did you grow up in the prison system

    Er no. Not seriously, a joke. Possibly not that funny middle aged guy gansta talk that made my kids laugh when they were at home. I didn’t bang off, I just brandished it; saw a bad man doing gymnastics; your whole crew they was jumping ship… Kind of thing . Anyway…

    I am surprised how much concern there is over carrying a small knife.

    I don’t think I’ve seen concern – other than warnings not to get caught. Have to say I was only very vaguely aware there were rules about flick knives etc, whilst having what I’d call a normal amount of knives/tools at home.

    I’m just slightly amused by the the amount of shite some folks put in their pockets in the morning. I guess that’s being (going?) pepared… Alright a smiley this time 😁

    Also, this thread has gone a long way without posh chef’s knives coming up. Come on stw!

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Putting aside for a minute whether or not anyone ever has a legit use for a knife. I am surprised that everyone is so accepting, welcoming even, of bad law that they acknowledge doesn’t work.

    If UK knife law has only succeeded in creating angst on a cycling forum and failed to stop a huge increase in knife crime, what is the point of it?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    The point of it is to make it possible to arrest someone if they find them with an inappropriate knife.  In this way it works.

    davros
    Full Member

    What knife for middle-aged office worker who didn’t realise he needed one?

    This has reminded me to look for a mini multi tool with pliers for stubborn presta valves that keep sticking. But it hasn’t convinced me that I need a switchblade in my pocket at all times.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    Aaaand. I’ve now got this in my head …

    Not that I wear a waistcoat. Or carry a blade. But still….

    easily
    Free Member

    I am surprised that everyone is so accepting, welcoming even, of bad law that they acknowledge doesn’t work.

    See also: cannabis.
    As you are all aware there is no cannabis in the UK thanks to our strict laws.

    easily
    Free Member

    Jeez Johnx2, if you’re going to have it stuck in your head you might as well have this mighty version rather than that insipid cover

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Another +1 for Batfink’s post

    I suppose in response to the OP’s original question, yes your colleague was correct and ‘EDCing’ an opinel is an unnecessary risk regardless of whether or not your specific demographics magically protect you from police interest.

    If, like many of us, you are a ‘family man’ how do you think a potential conviction for carrying a bladed article is going to affect you and your family? All so you can slice a tomato?

    I’m almost as stale, male and pale as the OP and I don’t think it’s wise to assume we get immunity on the basis of how unthreatening we believe we look.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    might as well have this mighty version rather than that insipid cover

    Fair

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Until the side fell off my white Swiss Army Knife SD, it went everywhere with my keys. Perfect tool for lots of things, nobody is going to quibble over a 3cm blade, tweezers and scissors. The irony is I bought it in Geneva airport airside. It never posed a problem travelling. And it will slice a tomato if necessary.

    My original (yes version 1!) Leatherman stays at home or is carried out on the trail in a rucksack. Non-locking blade but I’d not risk carrying it as hand luggage. It’s used all the time and lives in THE kitchen drawer everyone has.

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    The point of it is to make it possible to arrest someone if they find them with an inappropriate knife. In this way it works.

    Police have always had the powers to arrest someone with an offensive weapon in public. One example but there are plenty of others going back to the 1800s:

    The Prevention of Crime Act 1953 prohibits the possession in any public place of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. 

    And yet, every couple of years a new law knife law is introduced. There are dozens of new laws or amendments to old ones. Not in the expectation it will allow arrests (because that power is already in place). Not in the expectation it will reduce crime (because it clearly doesn’t) but to give a gullible public the false impression that they are tackling knife crime. ‘Let’s ban knives with scary names, because Mrs Miggins has read about Zombie knives and Katanas in the Sun’. ‘OK, but logically shouldn’t we then ban axes, meat cleavers etc’. Err no…. because reasons. Throwing more and more ineffective law at the symptom of a serious problem without tackling the causes is cynical and immoral imo. That’s my issue with it. That and the fact so many otherwise smart people are taken in by it.

    Scapegoat
    Full Member

    Just to weigh into the debate with a couple of thoughts from a (former) professional viewpoint.

    The law states quite simply that you cannot have a sharply pointed or bladed article with you in a public place unless you have a good reason to do so.

    The onus is on you to prove that good reason.

    So a chef on their way to work with a big bag of knives, or a carpet fitter on their way home from work with a Stanley knife, or a darts player on their way to, at and on their way home from the pub all have good reason to be in possession of sharply pointed or bladed articles.  See also folk out with  hunting knives if they are actually out hunting etc etc.

    However, a carpet fitter in the pub after work can’t have their stanley knife with them and rely on the now expired good reason. Neither can Jockey Wilson rely on his darts player status in a football ground.

    The legislation allows for the carrying of a folding pocket knife as long as the cutting edge of the blade doesn’t exceed 7.62cm (3 inches) . SO we can have a small pocket knife with us if we choose, and we don’t have to justify it to anybody, still less argumentative folk on cycling forums.

    I think the locking blade/fixed blade thing has been done to death but bear this in mind.  A stale pale male etc etc may not be likely to be stopped and searched, but there are circumstances under which the locking emergency tomato opinel in your pocket could come to the attention of the police. In a former life I booked any number of drink drivers into custody who had small locknives on key rings, and occasionally opinels specifically, etc etc in their possession.  They were at that point committing the offence. Just one example of how it may come and bite you.

    Now bear in mind that Police Policy on  knife offences is one of the areas where discretion around charging decisions is greatly reduced. Many simple statutory and either way offences can be decided by the custody officer or an Inspector. That level is removed for knife possession. The decision is to  refer to the CPS for a charging/disposal decision, and the option of an informal disposal only applies in very exceptional circumstances.

    Now add in the CPS guidelines on charging decisions:

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/offensive-weapons-knives-bladed-and-pointed-articles

    and the sentencing guidelines for folk up in front of the beak:

    (EDIT can’t post the link for some reason, but it explains the different sentencing options, diluting the offence from someone out to use a knife to threaten or cause harm, down to the bloke with the opinel who will end up with a fine or  community sentence, but a conviction nevertheless)

    and you’ll see why your Opinel may not land you in prison, but it is going to leave you with a criminal conviction.

    TL;DR?

    If you insist on carrying a knife for emergency tomato purposes, make sure it’s a small folding pocket knife. (I refuse to call it EDC by the way….)

    Scapegoat
    Full Member

    That sentencing link, now I’ve managed to create it, has some interesting social commentary on the different types of “carrying a knife” scenarios and how to deal with them.

    It also opens a debate around the current public outcry for mandatory prison sentences. Public opinion is all very well, but if you are screaming for mandatory prison sentences for those carrying knives, you’d better not forget to take your darts out of your pocket before you go clubbing.

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Thanks for your input Scapegoat. A little sobering in some ways. I will now go and remove the Leatherman I’ve had for 35 years from the bag in my car which also contains a torch, warm clothing, blanket, tow rope, etc.

    That is sadly the real effect of this legislation, whilst the roadman with a 9″ chefs knife in his joggers doesn’t give a flying ****.

    redthunder
    Free Member

    Looks like the Toologic 3″ must go :-(. Has a slip liner lock :-(. It was in the bike bag for years and has been used many times when out and about riding. Clearing vegitation, stuff in the cassettes, sharpening pencils for drawing, hack and bodging as and when etc.. Even cutting apples in half, never a tomatoe ;-).

    Very useful tool along with screwdriver, folding saw and secatuers. When riding the local trails not BPW.

    It even has a fire steel, never used in the wilds of Gloucestershire.

    Might get a small Swiss Army Knife for the bag instead. Don’t need any hassle.

    Once again the wallies have affected my way of life 🙁

    Next they will be banning creasote and sodium cholrate;-). And crisps.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    you’d better not forget to take your darts out of your pocket before you go clubbing.

    clubbing whom and with what?

    the roadman with a 9″ chefs knife in his joggers

    wait until you see what I’ve got hidden in my Dryrobe…

    winston
    Free Member

    Thank you scapegoat – finally a sensible post. Not a sensible law mind you, I agree with many on here that it does nothing to prevent knife crime and only serves to help ‘stale pale and male’ old men have knives close on their fingers whilst cutting something stubborn.

    Your post above all others has ensured I won’t carry my Opinel outside the house unless I’m going camping and then it will be in the boot of the car. I’ts a shame as I like them and I actually do feel its an erosion of my personal freedoms – I’d give up even carrying a SAK in a heartbeat mind you if it could be proved that this law was protecting the population from knife crime and young people from needlessly going to prison but I don’t think it does.

    Drac
    Full Member

    I am surprised that everyone is so accepting, welcoming even, of bad law that they acknowledge doesn’t work.

    Yeah and remove dangerous driving laws while you’re at it. In fact let’s just get rid of all laws.

    Aidy
    Free Member

    Hm, I don’t carry one in my pocket, but I do leave one in the car.

    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    Yeah and remove dangerous driving laws while you’re at it. In fact let’s just get rid of all laws.

    I like you Drac, you’re usually a voice of reason, but that’s a ridiculous thing to say.  Because I question badly drafted law which has failed in its aims, I am advocating repealing all laws?  Really? FFS.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Spot on Scapegoat I don’t think anyone has claimed absolutely no knives. Just weird carrying one in office just in case they fancy a tomato.

    Leatherman Arc today, sometimes on my belt, but got an awkward belt to fit it on today, so in my pocket/on site office desk.

    Fisher Space pen, bit kit, ratchet driver.

    Used the scissors and blade so far today.

    Carried from digs to car, that’s it. Would I take it to the pub, probably not (maybe local, but not town centre), would I take it to the football, definitely not

    20240213_092317~220240213_092307~2

    convert
    Full Member

    What Drac is (I think ably) pointing out I think is that the existence of the law is to give the police to tools to do their job efficiently. It does not mean all ‘roadmen’ will automatically have nothing hidden in their pants. But it means when they are confronted the police have something reasonable to work with. Some middle aged (and I suspect bearded) blokes might get their knickers in a twist that their lifetime habit of carrying some particular knife is now (well, 5 years or so ago) illegal. So be it. In a similar way there are plenty of occasions I could drive in a manner that would be illegal but would ‘probably’ be safe in that specific context using my own judgment. But the world just can’t work like that because 70 odd million people’s good judgment involves a lot of bad judgment. But in a world where knife crime is an increasing problem, a law that does not create too much hassle for your bobby confronting said tooled up youth, I’m good with. That rogue tomato is not getting a savaging with a lockable leatherman might just live another day (or 30 seconds until you find an alternative) is a reasonable downside. The fact that there are not enough of those policeman and the community at large (parents, I’m looking at you here) to make knife carrying less risky from a chance of getting caught perspective is a totally different conversation.

    But back to the main thrust (pun intended) of the argument. All of the bearded boomers ‘needs’ for an EDC, if they feel naked without one, seem to be met by a small SAK. You might ‘want’ to carry something more manly or more niche hewn from spartan’s ear lobe – but you don’t need it. And if you do, because you have a genuinely good reason for it – happy days, you still can. Chefs are still commuting to work with an arsenal of death wrapped up in canvas role. Bushcraft instructors are still walking into schools with knives without the school going into lockdown.

Viewing 40 posts - 161 through 200 (of 489 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.