career driven people : what drives you?

A few years ago the “peter principle” applied to me and I got promoted to a relatively senior role where I work (a manager of managers type scenario). I’ve never been driven by job status, and I wasn’t looking for the role, but when I was approached for it, it seemed churish to decline the move, and a bit more money is always nice.

At this level, all of my peers (and my boss) seem extremely career driven, always positioning themselves for the next thing, and this seems to reflect badly on me, as I don’t make much effort to sell my achievements, brag about how good my team is, work my network, that sort of thing – so it appears that we’re doing less, and my boss sees me as disengaged. I’m not disengaged by the work itself, but for me that’s separate to wanting more.

What I think would help is a better understanding of why people want more to move up in their jobs. Obviously at a certain level the extra money can make a decent difference to lifestyle (eg. being able to afford a house, having a car that works), but beyond a certain point the extra money doesn’t have much impact on your life – so I figure there’s more to it. For me, I’d be just as happy (probably more so) in my old role as in my current one, but I’m aware this isn’t “normal”.

For me, looking back  I think it’s pride and a belief in my ability to do stuff better. 2 main jobs throughout my life:

First one started as an earthenware slip caster then went to production manager then general manager in a giftware factory.

2nd one, started as stock controller in a distribution business then md of a new acquisition. No formal qualifications, just very lucky I suppose.

I ended up working in specialist marine projects.

I pushed pretty hard to get in the senior operational role, I really enjoyed the work, interesting and diverse. Loads of travel, hardly ever in the same region twice.

I had no interest in a “higher” position, which meant a mainly office based role and less or the same money.

Didn’t realise how stressful and how much pressure I was under until I stepped away. It was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders that I didn’t even realise I was carrying.

For me, I’d be just as happy (probably more so) in my old role as in my current one, but I’m aware this isn’t “normal”.

No, that is normal. In many industries there’s the concept of a “career level” which the level many people can be expected to get to and have a happy career at. E.g. in software many people become senior engineers…and that’s it. And that’s fine, they’re happy with it.

For me it’s been more that as I gain knowledge/experience and improve at my job, I get to a point where i feel a bit bored and need a new challenge. I’m not massively driven but also don’t like the thought of stagnating in the same role for the rest of my career.

No, that is normal. In many industries there’s the concept of a “career level” which the level many people can be expected to get to and have a happy career at. E.g. in software many people become senior engineers…and that’s it. And that’s fine, they’re happy with it.

Is this really true? There’s also a common belief in software that once you’re in your 40s you’re done as a developer. You’re then expected to progress into management roles. I’m sure there are some, but I’ve worked in the industry for years and I’m not sure I’ve ever met a software engineer over the age of 50. I feel the same pressures as the OP.

I’m where dc1988 is. I’ve reached the level I’m happy at. I’ll say lower management and I’m happy here, I don’t want to climb higher as I feel I’d be setting myself up for failure/ promoted into incompetence.

I do sometimes think I’d like a few more challenges at this level. There are a few developments but they take a back seat to the dayto day.

At this level, all of my peers (and my boss) seem extremely career driven, always positioning themselves for the next thing, and this seems to reflect badly on me, as I don’t make much effort to sell my achievements, brag about how good my team is, work my network, that sort of thing – so it appears that we’re doing less, and my boss sees me as disengaged. I’m not disengaged by the work itself, but for me that’s separate to wanting more.

Regardless of whether you are looking for your next move, some of those below you almost certainly are, and failing to promote their good work and success is doing them a disservice.

Not sure asking for replies from “career driven people” at 11am on a monday morning on a cycling forum is going ot get you the target audience you require…

(Clearly as I’m here, I’m in the same boat and would also like to know the answers)

what drives you?

Is it a car costing over £40K?  🙂

I think it’s pride and a belief in my ability to do stuff better.

This for me, yet I’ve found solace in the fact that once I’ve reached the peak of my ability, I’m comfortable with that.

But I’ve also aligned my career objectives with a desire to achieve more for my lifestyle and family, a nice car, a house deposit, giving my kids the best, paying off the mortgage early, saving for retirement so that me and Mrs K can enjoy our formative years in the way we’d like.

Im not entirely sure but I believe this is because I was bought up with second had stuff by parents that worked 5 jobs between them, and parents / grandparents that retired only to sit and stare at each other across the room in armchairs.  I don’t want any of that.

” I’m not sure I’ve ever met a software engineer over the age of 50.”

My brother is a freelance software developer aged 61. Currently on a contract for a large finance organisation working on the way they deal with  the car finance mis-selling claims.

I’m where dc1988 is. I’ve reached the level I’m happy at. I’ll say lower management and I’m happy here, I don’t want to climb higher as I feel I’d be setting myself up for failure/ promoted into incompetence.

I know what you do for a job, were all those climbing phrases, were they intentional?

There’s also a common belief in software that once you’re in your 40s you’re done as a developer. You’re then expected to progress into management roles. I’m sure there are some, but I’ve worked in the industry for years and I’m not sure I’ve ever met a software engineer over the age of 50.

What field is that – I’ve worked with a group where the average age now would be 65 as they’re the guys who did the original research and wrote the algorithms.

I’ve stopped trying to climb as the bad parts outweigh the good , but I like being senior enough to influence major decisions

For me it was a sure and certain belief that I could do stuff much better if I had more authority over direction and methods. That got me to a lowish level management position, but my bosses always thought I was too friendly with/soft on my team. I’d regularly have to do various reports showing how much more effective they were since I took over 🙂

When we were all outsourced to an actual IT company, the opportunity came to give up the man-management part of the role and concentrate on the technical direction/strategy side, so I was in my element. I did pass on a couple of opportunities that would have paid a lot more but meant I’d be out of the country, away from family, for weeks on end. I guess that means I’d recognised where my priorities lay and so stopped chasing career , instead just doing the best job I could.

Career driven vs journeyman.

I have 2 friends who are(were) really career driven, both high level role holders, both travelled lots, one realised how much her job was making her sick earlier this year and quit, the other is really hating his role/company but can’t find the next step and gets paid too well to walk away.

Whereas I do similar roles in different companies, or somewhere I learn something new, I earn a decent amount, but probably half what either of these friends do. I’m happier but poorer. Not sure what’s right or wrong in that.

I’m currently a senior engineer, and have been put forward for principal engineer in Jan. It’s not something that i’ve been chasing particularly, just that i’ve been doing the same job as the other principals in the team for quite a while so it feels like a combination of time served and and the other principals in the team not pulling their weight.

I’m quite happy in my role and if it wasn’t for the lack of parity with other team members i would have just kept my head down.

Because they are 5 minutes of actually stopping and contemplating their lives away from a having a full blown existential crisis and meltdown.  Focusing 100% on the next career move keeps the little voice saying, ‘But what have you actually done with your life?’ quiet enough that it can be ignored.

For now, at least.

Revenge.
Against those who have wronged me.
I am patience manifest.
I will wait.
I will endure.
Revenge against those who have wronged me will be mine.

Wouldn’t say I’m particularly career driven but if ever step up to something else it’s usually driven by boredom and/or an inability to say no when the boss asks me. I’m also an opinionated git so I tend to stick my nose into things if I can see they’re not being done properly/efficiently which sometimes results in me being told/asked to do something if I can do better.

 so that me and Mrs K can enjoy our formative years in the way we’d like.

You’ve found a time machine?

When I was career minded, it was because I had dropped out of Poly within the first term, and I was determined to be successful enough to have my own house by the time my peers graduated at 21.

I worked all hours, did professional qualifications, sacrificed relationships, holidays, nice cars, took the breaks that came my way and I did it.

Carried on after that as I was good at what I was doing, got to the managing managers thing at 25/26, relocated down south to do it.

Not sure if I got complacent, or imposter syndrome kicked in, or if meeting the now MrsMC made me rethink priorities. I definitely began to see the bullshit and bollocks I’d have to deal in to carry on that career trajectory and after being made redundant in a takeover walked away, made choices to prioritise family over career having got enough behind us to be comfortable on less income after relocating again.

There’s a balance to be had and I’m not sure I got it right at either time. Not made enough overall to retire early like some friends have, so working under a new generation of bullshitters who are doing my head in.

I’m a scientist and driven to do research – in an ideal world where research funding was laid at the feet of anyone with good ideas, this wouldn’t take much of a career. In reality I need to be career driven because that is the only way to fund my lab. Bit like a road race – it would be really nice to just sit in, but doing that gets you shelled out the back. And while I’m not really arsed about winning, I do want to be in the race.

It’s not too hardcore, though, in the UK – better than a lot of places, worse than some. The US for example is an insane treadmill of grant-writing (in my area) that not many folk are built for.

I know lots of people who are driven by an absolute and unshakable belief that acquisition will finally make them happy.
Better car, bigger house, more important job, more money, they are always just one step away from finally getting what they want to fill that void.

It never works.

They just end up unhappy again because there’s always something better on the horizon and they don’t yet possess it… and so the cycle begins anew.

For some people, enough is never enough

@morecashthandash

User name doesn’t check out 🙂

User name doesn’t check out

I like to keep folk on their toes….

interesting feedback – mostly from people similar to me (as noted, maybe not the right time of day for career driven folks).

Co-incidentally I’m in software development as a principal eng, which in my world has a scope covering 3-500 engineers in total (we have staff eng role between snr eng and principal eng) – my peers on the delivery side might have teems of 1-200 engineers each. We have a bunch of older engineers in the org (as well as younger) – some of the older folks move to more project management/product roles but not all, I’m easily current enough to move back if I need.

Interestingly some of the answers I get at work seem to be around a bigger challenge/opportunity to influence a bigger portfolio, which doesn’t seem to be a theme here.

Regardless of whether you are looking for your next move, some of those below you almost certainly are, and failing to promote their good work and success is doing them a disservice.

Very much this.

My experience is that being higher on the totem pole allowed me to do things how I thought they should be done, rather than how others thought they should be done. Of course this logic can be applied at every level …  so I retired. Now I do things how my wife thinks they should be done,

I’ve never understood people who are massivley into careerism…it seems alien to me, they must lead very regimented and miserable lives, but maybe that’s because I don’t really give a damn about recognition and all that palaver.

I mean you have to make enough money to keep you happy, secure, and pay for retirement… but it must be very lonely and stressfull to keep up appearences with people who own boats and what not… where does the ‘ambition’ stop?

You have to take time to enjoy things, I think….

I mean I drive a 12 year old car thats probably worth £2.5k at best… I dont care, it works, I could walk into a BMW dealer tomorrow morning and buy a tasty M3 or 5… but it’s not going to get me where I’m going any faster, and have you seen the prices for the tyres and servicing on those things?… Hell no!

But it’s all about priorities I guess… I’m much more into good food and traveling, I don’t give a damn what car I drive as long as it’s legal and functional.

At a recent conference, I noticed everyone who stood up front to talk was using words like “excited” and “passionate”. Despite doing my job well and keeping people safe, I wouldn’t describe my work mentality like that.

Left me wondering if they’re broken, or I am. Although I’m pretty sure that it it’s me, I don’t want to be fixed.

Feels like most of what they’re driving at is how to make rich people richer, faster, by working us harder. That’s not me and never will be.

I noticed everyone who stood up front to talk was using words like “excited” and “passionate”.

That’s just all part of the ongoing effort of the world of business to enforce brainwashed conformity. They like to keep up the pretence that everyone is there out of some form of altruism or passion for what they do but under the surface everyone knows we’re all just in it for the money and would be doing other stuff if we didn’t need to be paid.

I’m not career driven, i’m fear driven, and that’s probably the only reason I’m somewhat successful at what I do. For as long as I can remember I’ve been afraid of going without and even now with very little debt, a house with 50k of positive equity and no dependents I still dig in at work harder than I probably should in fear of being sacked or made redundant. It’s all a bit dysfunctional.

Scientist following a vocation. Didn’t expect to end where I have, but I didn’t like writing grant proposals and wanted to be closer to data! So I climbed from individual contributor and subject matter expert, to leader of a group and manager of managers. But I always kept contributing to the science and have continuously re skilled with the latest scientific thinking and methodologies. Now I’m an internal consultant at a very senior level. I never chased promotion but did feel my contributions should be recognised by grade, position and reporting line. The company have agreed and that’s why I’m still here (25 years in January), rather than retired or elsewhere. I consider it a privilege to do what I do for a living.

Sometimes it’s not about chasing progression and playing politics. Instead it’s demonstrating a successful and valuable track record that is rewarded. Sometimes.

I know a couple who did it because they thought it was the done thing. Since a young age the mantra was – do well at school, get good grades, go to uni, get a good degree, get a good graduate job, work your way up. Its a learnt thing with no real goal other than move on to the next step.

Same thing that pushes people to ride faster, further and train. There isn’t often a long term plan, just focussing on that next step up.

I was a bit like this, then I reached a point where I was comfortable and am a lot less motivated. Now I just want to try and improve things and fix problems – which is futile and frustrating at times.

I was at a crossroads having been offered two management roles, but I knew I’d hate it. Instead the only other option to progress was to go freelance (Data Engineer/Analyst). It was the best decision I’ve ever made.

Aside from the financial benefits, I get immersed in a much wider technology stack as well as wide range of design/project principles. New major challenges are much more regular and I get the opportunity to make a real difference for a business much more effectively, so it’s more rewarding. I could never go back to the management path.

I’m with the op

I used to love doing the yearly appraisal, especially the bit about future aspirations. My standard response was that I was perfectly content with my current position and role.

The thing I always struggle with is when you hear of folk earning astronomical amounts of money. I always think why, why don’t you do it for a few years, bank it all then retire? Why carry on?

I set out when I was 20 on a 20+ year career path mapped out.  Qualify as a nurse, chase promoted posts, learn to manage a care home, own my own care home.

I discovered I was not a good boss ( good with staff generally, useless at dealing with conflict and setting strategic goals) and ended up promoted beyond my abilities.  I did my business plan and even looked at buildings.  I realised I would be unhappy and wouldn’t make money.

Quite honestly this was a blow and also led me to question the whole Idea of career progression.  I went back to working on the shop floor where I was now a senior experienced person with a lot to offer.  I enjoyed the last ten years doing this.

For me at least promotion brought me unhappiness and stress.  A career of striving to get to the top is not for everyone.  I wish I had realised this earlier

There’s a race of men that don’t fit in,

A race that can’t stay still;

So they break the hearts of kith and kin,

And they roam the world at will.

They range the field and they rove the flood,

And they climb the mountain’s crest;

Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,

And they don’t know how to rest.

If they just went straight they might go far;

They are strong and brave and true;

But they’re always tired of the things that are,

And they want the strange and new.

They say: “Could I find my proper groove,

What a deep mark I would make!”

So they chop and change, and each fresh move

Is only a fresh mistake.

And each forgets, as he strips and runs

With a brilliant, fitful pace,

It’s the steady, quiet, plodding ones

Who win in the lifelong race.

And each forgets that his youth has fled,

Forgets that his prime is past,

Till he stands one day, with a hope that’s dead,

In the glare of the truth at last.

He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;

He has just done things by half.

Life’s been a jolly good joke on him,

And now is the time to laugh.

Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;

He was never meant to win;

He’s a rolling stone, and it’s bred in the bone;

He’s a man who won’t fit in.

I always think why, why don’t you do it for a few years, bank it all then retire? Why carry on?

Perchy panther puts it well above.

words like “excited” and “passionate”

I often hear those words used in place of “shouty” and “angry”. Might be different elsewhere