I want a new camera. Having got shot of my DSLR, I want something (a lot) smaller and I’ve settled on an Olympus OMD EM10 mk2.
Mrs PP is off to her sister’s in Singapore at the beginning of December and has offered to get one for me, so I’ve been doing some research.
It seems there’s some untrustworthy shops there, and some very good ones. That’s fine, I can sort that out in advance, but there’s other issues that make me wonder if it’s worth bothering.
The only reason to buy from there is price, and to make it worth while (e.g. warranty) it’s got to be a significant saving, so i’ve been looking at prices. Or trying to. You’d think that the shops would be shouting their prices at full volume on their websites, but most of the websites I can find are crap with little in the way of prices. The only couple of things I’ve been able to compare have been available cheaper in the UK, e.g.:
Polaroid Cube is about 240SGD – roughly 140GBP and you can get them for £100 or less here.

And the camera I want… About £635

http://www.lazada.sg/olympus-om-d-e-m10-mark-ii-mirrorless-micro-four-thirds-digitalcamera-with-14-42mm-lens-silver-olympus-mzuiko-digital-ed40-150mm-f40-56-r-lens-black-4193944.html?boost=3

as against £499 and an extra £75 cash back so £424 in the UK at Jessops.

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Compact%20System%20Cameras/products/Olympus/OM-D%20E-M10%20Mark%20II%20Compact%20System%20Camera%20in%20Silver%20%2014-42mm%20Lens-98019/Show.html

I’d have to get one for no more than £375 to make it worth it.
Is that going to happen? Anybody any experience?
Thanks in advance 🙂

Prices on tech were pretty flexible when we were shopping around. You certainly don’t pay the first price suggested. That probably makes online price comparison pretty tricky and will make it hard for someone to buy for you. To get a deal you have to haggle hard.

I lived in Singapore, many things are more expensive there most especially things expats like to buy because they are bored and have disposable income via low tax rates. My collegaues always bought computers / electronics in the US for example.

Agree on the above, I wouldn’t bother. Unless it was available at Changi on a bargain, that is.

There are some good tech malls out there, such as the Funan DigitalLife Mall, but overall, I wouldn’t.

Unless you know someone in one of the digital shopping centers like Sim Lee then I feel there is no point buying known brand electronics there bar a currency deviation making it a very good bargain.

PP, I’m back in SIN next weekend, so if you’d like me to look at anything, I might have some spare time!

Aside from the ‘why wouldn’t you want to support UK businesses that provide jobs for people, pay in tax to the economy’ etc, I’m mystified why you’d want to replace a DSLR with an inferior camera? You’re giving up at least an APS-C sensor (or full frame?) for an inferior micro 4/3rds sensor. Seems like a backwards step to me. 😕

clodhopper – Member
I’m mystified why you’d want to replace a DSLR with an inferior camera?

PeterPoddy – Member
Having got shot of my DSLR, I want something (a lot) smaller and I’ve settled on an Olympus OMD EM10 mk2.

Be mystified no more!!

Just had a quick look at this review:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Olympus_OMD_EM10_Mark_II/

seems like a nice bit of kit…

I just don’t get this obsession with size (or the lack of it), to sacrifice image quality. So just buy a compact. A 4/3rds camera with a couple of lenses isn’t significantly smaller and lighter than a small DSLR outfit really. I carry a full fame DSLR, plus at least a couple of lenses around with me, and have cycled up mountains etc with it. It’s not lightweight kit.

Why are you messing around with the small 35mm format then? Plenty of medium format systems available.

clodhopper

I’m mystified why you’d want to replace a DSLR with an inferior camera? You’re giving up at least an APS-C sensor (or full frame?) for an inferior micro 4/3rds sensor. Seems like a backwards step to me.

Because the best camera is the one you have with you.

clodhopper

I just don’t get this obsession with size (or the lack of it), to sacrifice image quality. So just buy a compact.

There’s little to no sacrifice in image quality from a camera you can fit in your pocket. But unlike a compact you can have complete manual control and interchangeable lenses.

A 4/3rds camera with a couple of lenses isn’t significantly smaller and lighter than a small DSLR outfit really.

Any 4/3rds camera with one lens is significantly smaller than any dslr with one lens.

I carry a full fame DSLR, plus at least a couple of lenses around with me, and have cycled up mountains etc with it. It’s not lightweight kit.

What a guy.

Not with a comprehensive and extensive range of lenses and accessories though.

But you know that. For maximum obtuseness, you should have said ‘plenty of large format systems available’. Then you would have looked really clever.

clodhopper – Member

Not with a comprehensive and extensive range of lenses and accessories though.

This is gonna blow your mind – it’s possible to go out to take photos without a comprehensive and extensive range of lenses and accessories.

“There’s little to no sacrifice in image quality from a camera you can fit in your pocket.”

Having used all sorts/formats of camera, there is a significant difference in image quality from 4/3rds to APS-C or FF. Especially in low-light, where the larger sensors have a massive advantage.

Having handled a number of 4/3rds cameras, I find them a bit of a gimmick really. If you just want a pocket camera, get a compact If you want a decent photographic device, then don’t compromise on quality. 4/3rds are too much of a ‘moon on a stick type’ solution to me.

“it’s possible to go out to take photos without a comprehensive and extensive range of lenses and accessories.”

So why bother with an interchangeable lens camera? 😕

“Any 4/3rds camera with one lens is significantly smaller than any dslr with one lens.”

A bit smaller, but is it that big a deal? Slightly more bulk and weight, and you’ve got a much better camera.

“What a guy.”

I know. 8)

But you know that. For maximum obtuseness, you should have said ‘plenty of large format systems available’. Then you would have looked really clever.

Ah good, maybe you can appreciate how you come across now.

Having used all sorts/formats of camera, there is a significant difference in image quality from 4/3rds to APS-C or FF. Especially in low-light, where the larger sensors have a massive advantage.

Having handled a number of 4/3rds cameras, I find them a bit of a gimmick really. If you just want a pocket camera, get a compact If you want a decent photographic device, then don’t compromise on quality. 4/3rds are too much of a ‘moon on a stick type’ solution to me.

Agree with this, especially the latter bit.

OP – have you actually handled the Olympus in your hands? At the end of the day, despite various internet arguments pixel-picking, cameras within a certain size range give similar results, and the biggest differences are in handling and interface. If you have then fair enough, but I’d definitely recommend trying one in-hand before you commit, especially if you got it from Singapore. I thought they would be the ideal compromise, and I just didn’t use it as I didn’t like using it.

clodhopper

Having used all sorts/formats of camera, there is a significant difference in image quality from 4/3rds to APS-C or FF. Especially in low-light, where the larger sensors have a massive advantage.

Having used all sorts of formats and cameras the difference is negligible. Even in low light. Apsc micro4/3rds isn’t the ultimate in terms of image quality but it’s more than adequate for recreational/enthusiast/pro-sumer/pro back up level of camera.

So why bother with an interchangeable lens camera?

On a Monday I might want to shoot landscapes. On a Tuesday it might be portraits…the same reason you would have interchangeable lenses for a dslr.

A bit smaller, but is it that big a deal?

Yes. The difference between a camera that is more or less in your hand (or in your pocket) to one which you hold on to like a brick.

Slightly more bulk and weight, and you’ve got a much better camera.

Not if smaller, lighter and more discreet are priorities.

Because the best camera is the one you have with you.

This is the key for me. I have a DSLR, it takes awesome pics and is a lovely bit of kit to use, but…I rarely have it with me as it’s big, heavy and takes a conscious effort to take it anywhere. I’ve probably used it twice this year, both times at weddings, I didn’t even take it on holiday as it was too bulky.

My iPhone however takes adequate pics but has the advantage that it’s there all the time in my pocket.

“micro4/3rds isn’t the ultimate in terms of image quality but it’s more than adequate for recreational/enthusiast/pro-sumer/pro back up level of camera.”

Most people I’ve known who’ve used 4/3rds, have upgraded to a DSLR, when they realise the limitations of the 4/3rds system. I’m sure such cameras are great for some people though, or they wouldn’t sell so many.

“the difference is negligible. Even in low light”

I do a fair amount of work in low/poor light, and I know that no 4/3rds camera can offer the image quality my DSLR does. It’s simple physics.

“On a Monday I might want to shoot landscapes. On a Tuesday it might be portraits…the same reason you would have interchangeable lenses for a dslr.”

But I thought you wanted lightweight and pocketable? 😕

“Not if smaller lighter and more discreet are priorities.”

So get a compact.

“This is the key for me. I have a DSLR, it takes awesome pics and is a lovely bit of kit to use, but…I rarely have it with me as it’s big, heavy and takes a conscious effort to take it anywhere. I’ve probably used it twice this year, both times at weddings, I didn’t even take it on holiday as it was too bulky.

My iPhone however takes adequate pics but has the advantage that it’s there all the time in my pocket.”

Sounds as if the iPhone is perfect for your needs.

I am more than happy to take my DSLR + lenses out with me, because if I am going to take photos, then I’d want them to be the best quality possible. I think that’s probably more down to my own personal mindset regarding photography though. But then, I can take my DSLR and 50mm lens out with me, which is a relatively smaller outfit, and take pictures which are significantly better in terms of image quality, than anything achievable on a smaller sensor camera. I know this, from using all types of digital camera. I find the smaller sensors just to compromised to work happily with. I have a little compact camera which is intended for ‘lightweight’ use, but still grab the DSLR, because with the compact, I’m always wishing I had my ‘proper’ camera with me. The shots I’ve missed because I haven’t had an adequately capable camera with me are enough to make me want to lug the ‘heavy and bulky’ DSLR around.

But I concede that if you’re not particularly bothered about having the best image quality possible, and want a camera that looks like you are a ‘proper photographer’, then a 4/3rds camera is perfect. 😉

clodhopper I’m sure such cameras are great for some people though, or they wouldn’t sell so many.

But I thought you wanted lightweight and pocketable?

So get a compact.

Join the dots here. Some people will want dslr control, interchangeable lenses and compactness and portability. They might be willing to sacrifice some degree of image quality for these other attributes. A mirrorless/4/3/APSC camera may actually outperform a DSLR in other areas though so it’s not so straight forward.

can take my DSLR and 50mm lens out with me, which is a relatively smaller outfit, and take pictures which are significantly better in terms of image quality, than anything achievable on a smaller sensor camera. I know this, from using all types of digital camera.

Prove it. Show me two comparison images that illustrate this. There’s bound to have been plenty of tests – images from comparably priced dslrs and APS-C cameras with a comparable lens, let’s see the difference.

if you’re not particularly bothered about having the best image quality possible,

So are we to assume you only shoot with a 200mpix medium format camera? Seems nothing else would be worth bothering with.

want a camera that looks like you are a ‘proper photographer’, then a 4/3rds camera is perfect.

Rather arse about tit there. Aps-c 4/3rds cameras look more like compacts or bridge cameras. If you feel the need to impress people with your big camera you’ll definitely need a dslr.

“If you feel the need to impress people with your big camera you’ll definitely need a dslr.”

😆 Is someone feeling a little inadequate?

If you want to impress people, you need to know what to do with your equipment. 8)

“Prove it.”

I don’t need to. I’m not the one who needs convincing.

clodhopper
Is someone feeling a little inadequate?

clodhopper
I carry a full fame DSLR, plus at least a couple of lenses around with me, and have cycled up mountains etc with it.

I am more than happy to take my DSLR + lenses out with me, because if I am going to take photos, then I’d want them to be the best quality possible.

I can take my DSLR and 50mm lens out with me, which is a relatively smaller outfit, and take pictures which are significantly better in terms of image quality, than anything achievable on a smaller sensor camera.

I know this, from using all types of digital camera.

No. No signs of inadequacy in this thread. None at all.

I don’t need to. I’m not the one who needs convincing.

You can’t. There’s a ton of videos on youtube comparing aps-c cameras to much more expensive dslrs. They are comparable, if not better in many ways.

“No. No signs of inadequacy in this thread. None at all.”

Indeed. In fact, it would be quite prepostrous to suggest there were any.

You appear to have taken umbrage with my opinions. Curious as to why.

“There’s a ton of videos on youtube comparing aps-c cameras to much more expensive dslrs. “

There’s tons of shite on YouTube. Which is why I stick to empirical knowledge. I find it an altogether more useful and rewarding aproach.

OP – have you actually handled the Olympus in your hands?

Yes. It’s bloody lovely.

A 4/3rds camera with a couple of lenses isn’t significantly smaller and lighter than a small DSLR outfit

It bloody is! It’s tiny!

I’m mystified why you’d want to replace a DSLR with an inferior camera?

DSLR was too big and heavy for my bar bag, and I was only taking holiday snaps with it as it was such a massive faff downloading and editing everything every time. Far easier from a phone….. The Olympus has wifi so I can pop everything straight on my phone and not be left with 1000s of shots I can’t be bothered d to edit when I get home. But it’s got enough stuff to faff with to keep me interested. And they’re lovely little things to hold too.
I don’t need advice on which camera I need thanks. 🙂

“I don’t need advice on which camera I need thanks.”

Clearly not. Sounds like you’re making a better decision than when you bought your DSLR, anyway.

Mystified why you think you need a new camera, when your ‘phone appears to be perfectly adequate? 😕

If you want to impress people, you need to know what to do with your equipment.

How is your photography website coming along? A verbose opinion on cameras/images, anything to back it up 🙄

Very well thanks Mr Smith. Thanks for asking. I keep changing images around though. Just got to decide on the final selection, and leave it at that.

“anything to back it up “

I like to think so.

Clearly not. Sounds like you’re making a better decision than when you bought your DSLR, anyway.

Mystified why you think you need a new camera, when your ‘phone appears to be perfectly adequate?

Look, you’re obviously better and cleverer than anyone else on this thread. As, despite not being able to answer my question, you proceed to answer several that haven’t been asked.
You simply have no idea what my decision was when I bought my SECOND DSLR, or how things have changed since then, yet I imagine you’re still going to try telling me I’m wrong again.
The question was:
Buying a camera in Singapore – Worth it?
Can you provide an answer to that or not?

“The question was:”

Quite boring actually.

” I imagine “

Clearly.

T’was a perfectly simple question, which sparked off a debate about cameras. A few opinions expressed. I’ve found it mildly interesting, anyway. I’m sorry that it has angered you so much.

“Buying a camera in Singapore – Worth it?
Can you provide an answer to that or not?”

I think other people already did.

“Look, you’re obviously better and cleverer than anyone else on this thread.”

It’s not that difficult. 8)

clodhopper – Member

You appear to have taken umbrage with my opinions. Curious as to why.

I can answer this…..Well, from my point of view anyway:

You pop up on photography threads and try to ram SLR’s down people’s throats, even to people who have absolutely no interest in SLRs whatsoever.

You then use an increasingly patronising tone in your replies, generally along the lines of ‘ah, well if you are happy with your inferior X, Y, Z then carry on…’ implying that your way is the best and other people’s tools and methods are not as valid as your own.

You often then revert to spiky one liners such as above:

clodhopper – Member

Quite boring actually.

clodhopper – Member

It’s not that difficult

And finally, you are quick to spout off, but have never (to my knowledge) actually stuck a photo on here to ‘put your money where your mouth is….’

Can you tell I’ve had a bad day….. 😀

Yes. It’s bloody lovely.

Good good – know quite a few people who have the ‘right camera for them’ in their head from online but without actually trying… myself included!

As per your original question, no I wouldn’t buy from Singapore unless it was like half the price of UK. You’re essentially buying a pretty expensive item that can go wrong without warranty (given warranty would involve posting back to Singapore and the comms etc… involved). Therefore on the STW used value of 50% loss instantly given no warranty, that’s what I’d want.

The Jessops deal looks good to me – I’d go with that.

(that said, compare apples with apples – that singapore price you linked to is for the dual lens kit also with 40-150mm aswell as 14-42mm…)

I think other people already did.

Good. You noticed. Yet still you feel the need to patronise and force your opinions.

You appear to have taken umbrage with my opinions. Curious as to why.

I didn’t ask for them, and nor did anyone else, as it seems you have pervious for this. I also don’t care for your manner. There, that’s how to answer a question, seeing as you seem to struggle.

Stumpy01 nails it.

PP, see my earlier, above. Let me know!

(that said, compare apples with apples – that singapore price you linked to is for the dual lens kit also with 40-150mm aswell as 14-42mm…)

Didn’t realise that. My mistake. Jessops have the same deal for about £494 after cash back.

Flashy, thanks, it would be nice if you’ve got the time to have a quick look, Mrs PP would be spend g most of her time with her sisters and their families, so it would be nice to be prepared. It’s just the camera (OMD Em10 mk2) in black/silver with the 14-42mm lens I want. 🙂

Will try and remember, and try to find some time!

“I can answer this…..Well, from my point of view anyway:”

I can see how I might come across to some sensitive folk, yes. In fairness, my own ‘arseyness’ was only a response to the arseyness of others. My initial question was genuine, and I’m quite surprised the OP took such offence to it. But I am genuinely trying to offer good advice, based on my own experience and knowledge.

“And finally, you are quick to spout off, but have never (to my knowledge) actually stuck a photo on here to ‘put your money where your mouth is….'”

With all due respect; I have no need to seek the affirmation of my peers on a cycling forum. I know a number of other photographers, some professional, who I can discuss and debate things with, and get feedback about my own work. Plus there’s the people who occasionally pay me for doing my hobby, who seem quite appreciative. Given the general tone of this forum, I have no desire to court attention for my creative outlet, from the majority of people on here.

I appreciate your comments, however, and perhaps I could take some of it on board. One doesn’t become self-aware by ignoring others.

“Can you tell I’ve had a bad day…..”

Everybody has them. I don’t think yours was as bad as somebody else’s though. 😉

If you do get the EM10, it makes a great tiny riding camera with a pancake prime attached. Something like the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 would be ideal.

You’re giving up at least an APS-C sensor (or full frame?) for an inferior micro 4/3rds sensor.

The sensor in those newer m43s is streets better than the old ones. IIRC PP’s APS-C camera is reasonably old now, so I would not be surprised if the 16mp m43 sensor would produce similar results. It was highly rated when I read about it.

And this is the point. Not everyone wants the best possible image quality – there are other requirements for cameras. The ‘just use an iPhone/compact’ comments are ridiculous, because you can still do a lot more with a m43 camera if you want to compared to iPhones or compacts. Or you can use an iPhone. Who the hell cares? Only one person should care – the photographer. That’s why they make all these different things.

If you do get the EM10, it makes a great tiny riding camera with a pancake prime attached. Something like the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 would be ideal.

There’s a pancake 14-42 zoom that’s perfect for that cam too. Collapses to the same size as the pancakes. Having used a 25mm pancake for biking it was the wrong size for just about everything. Too short to pick anything out of a scene, too long for landscapes. Would be ok for taking pictures of your buddies.

A 100% crop from that cam – ISO 6400

Post edited cos I found some more relevant images.