Budget – I'm actually better off – blimey!

D/P

Ha, ha,. Comes down to definition of “taught'” !!! I have not taught it as such (that is 100% true), but that is not to say that I am not involved in preparing candidates!!

So loitering around schools/colleges so that you can give useful tips to economics students was fairly close then ?

Still, I’m glad to hear that you don’t actually ‘teach’ economics to young impressionable kids…….I found the thought quite worrisome. Although I’m happy for you to spout your loopy neo-liberal Thatcherite nonsense at me.

I hadn’t noticed your ban

You didn’t even miss me then ? Bashtard.

mcboo – Member

I do like this idea of sending everyone a tax statement showing them how much tax they pay and what it goes on.

Who could object to that?

I do.

Government spending is complicated, an a4 sheet just allows the Government of the time to present figures in a way to support its ideology.

I have to admit it didn’t occur to me that’s what its real purpose was until I saw the Tories example, had the example more fitted my own political leanings I would not have realised it will be nothing but propaganda.

E-L, probably would not be allowed to teach given that the book on the top of my pile is Steve Keen’s “Debunking Economics.” So why would a neo-liberal Thatcherite (if this mystical figure exists other than in people’s imagination) be reading a book that debunks all the foundations of neo-classical economics. Funny that….!!

Edit: Imagine – “hi A level class, did you know that the demand curve actually does not slope down!” Or is that Wonderland and I am the Mad Hatter?

Now be careful, “loitering around schools” has certain implications. You wouldn’t want another leave of absence!!

So why would a neo-liberal Thatcherite (if this mystical figure exists other than in people’s imagination) be reading a book that debunks all the foundations of neo-classical economics.

It’s an undeniable fact that the Maggie Thatcher Fan Club on here, are a bunched of confused and muddled individuals who constantly contradict themselves to an embarrassing level, so nothing really surprises me anymore.

TBH I think half your problem is that you spend far too much time reading books on economics – as a general rule economists haven’t got a clue what they are talking about. Hence the reason why the world economies are in such a mess. Economists across the world, some even with Master’s degrees, couldn’t all be wrong, you would have thought. Oh yes they can. Except of course, for the ones which no one wanted to listen to.

Even the sun thinks this budget is a bad idea. Take money from pensioners, give money to the rich, throw a few scraps to the rest to keep them sweet. Yay.

E_L, be careful you may be catching TJ’ disease.

TBH I think half your problem is that you spend far too much time reading books on economics – as a general rule economists haven’t got a clue what they are talking about.

So why was I reading a book by Keen do you wonder???? Silly answer, I am a confused Thatcherite (which I am not by a long shot). Correct answer is perhaps hidden in the second part of your sentance. Nice swerve BTW, far more subtlety than others! 😉

Temahurtmore – when did you ever espouse anything on economics that was not right wing orthodoxy?

I am a confused Thatcherite (which I am not by a long shot)

Oh bless you teamhurtmore, I love it when you deny being a fan of Maggie Thatcher, despite the fact that you have constantly sung her praises on here telling everyone what a great job she did 😀

Is this a bit like how you don’t “teach” economics – you just “tell” economics students how to “prepare” for exams ?

So

If we need to decrease tax rates for the rich to reduce tax avoidance and to increase the tax take do we also need to increase benefit rates to reduce benefit fraud and reduce the benefits bill?

While we are at it as well most car drivers exceed the speed limit. Do we increase the speed limits so that no one breaks them?

On the contrary Ernie, I have not sung her praises. I have pointed out clearly what she did right to correct the appalling legacy of Labour and Heath and how she subsequently made many mistakes. C’mon you are better than that – please don’t catch TJ’s disease. (thesis, antithesis, synthesis – ring a bell? )

TJ, I merely debunk BS where appropriate. The fact that you spout so much of it, is probably why you think that I am so RW. Which is why I have said in the past that the irony is so funny and why I smile when correcting your nonsense because my actual position is often a million miles from the one you like to suggest. Used to keep me amused but as I said earlier the novelty has worn off!!

Laughable.

So give one example where you espouse an economic theory that is not of the right?

Your position is one way over on the right – or so your postings on here show. Are you saying you do not believe the right wing BS you spout on here all the time?

teamhurtmore – Member

Her greatest achievement – easy, ridding us of the nightmare of 1970s Britain
Her greatest failure – replacing one set of extremes with another, but probably hard to see how should could have done otherwise

Tackles: 1970s rampant inflation, excess union power, excess welfare state, over-reliance of Keynesian economic (Stop-Go cycle), IMF bailout

But leaves us with: Hayek’s “Constitution of Liberty” taken to its extreme, and over-reliance on Monetarism, the Miners Strike, turning self-reliance into “no-such thing as society”, over-reliance of market-based solutions and privatisation…..

……teamhurtmore – Member

“The Thatcherite revolution is more a product of rhetoric than of the reality of policy impact”

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn 😉

Yup – the right wing orthodoxy espoused right there in that quote.

Edit – I suspect your life experience is such that you simply do not understand how right wing you are. Your patronising attitude stinks.

so – do you not believe the right wing BS you sprout continuously? or do you not believe its right wing BS?

TJ – where shall we start? How George Osborne is misunderstanding the relative merits of Monetarism versus Keynesian. How the Tories misunderstand basic IS-LM analysis….do I need to continue???

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn 😉

andemJeremy – Member
Yup – the right wing orthodoxy espoused right there in that quote.

Good God, TJ have you had a bad day? I think the whole Thatcherism thing is massively overblown by lazy analysis and crass politicking. She only did half the things that her supporters claim and probably even less of the the things that her enemies claim. If that conclusion makes me a Thatcherite then so be it. But seems an odd definition to me?

How would a RWinger have a problem with an over-reliance on Hayek/Monetarism/Privatisation etc? He/she would be salivating at the prospect not recalling at it.

Never let the truth get in…..yawn

so – do you not believe the right wing BS you sprout continuously? or do you not believe its right wing BS?

Are the pointless question tactic again. I will give it the correct level of attention.

TandemJeremy – Member

If we need to decrease tax rates for the rich to reduce tax avoidance and to increase the tax take do we also need to increase benefit rates to reduce benefit fraud and reduce the benefits bill?

Do most people who defraud the benefit system do it because they don’t get enough benefits, or because they are dishonest people who think they can get away with it?
Not sure your comparison stands up to any analysis.

…..and how she subsequently made many mistakes

Now you see that’s the bit I’ve missed – I’ve seen your posts where you thoroughly praise her though. Why do you think that is ? What with you being an economist, who’s not a Thatcherite “by a long shot”, and her having such a profound effect on the UK economy, one would have expected that you would have got well stuck in, at any given opportunity.

Still, you can set the record straight now by giving us a quick critic on Thatcher, telling us how she screwed up, and why you’re not a Thatcherite by a long shot.

Do most people avoid tax because they don’t make enough money, or because they are dishonest people who can get away with it?

Seems a fair comparison to me.

Teramhurtmore – when you take a moderate right wing stance to oppose an extreme right wing stance it does not make you of the left.

this is the bit you seem completely unable to grasp. there is a huge amount of room politically and economically to the left of you – but you think because there is also someone to the right of you you have now moved to the left. Nope yo are just not as far right as them

In that quote you agree with a load of right wing dogma that you take as read that is correct – you cannot even see it for what it is.

ernie_lynch – Member. Why do you think that is ?

Very, very simple. I like to debunk BS and there is a lot of it relating to Thatcher. So you can point it out without being a fan (did I say, which I am not…)

edit

Still, you can set the record straight now by giving us a quick critic on Thatcher, telling us how she screwed up, and why you’re not a Thatcherite by a long shot.

See above for the summary.

Are TJ – so now its a moderate RW stance – like the Thatcher/Carrington/Nott issue we are finally making slow progress. Keep it up. If you really think that ridding us of the nightmare of 1970s Britain is RW dogma, then leave it there. You win, Hurrah!! Have you turned everyone off on the nuclear thread as well?

For much of the country the 70’s were fine, the nightmare began in the 80’s.

MSP – Member
For much of the country the 70’s were fine, the nightmare began in the 80’s.

D***. missed that bit. Now I know where I have been going wrong. Phew, I can exit properly educated. Enough…..

like the Thatcher/Carrington/Nott issue

The one where you claimed I said “thatchers fault” when I actually said “Thatchers governments fault” – Ie where you leapt in to attack as you usually do without even having the courtesy to read what was written

You do this alls the time and do not even have the humility to acknowledge your mistake when pointed out to you.

You know – thats 3 times in recent days you have accused me of saying something I have not, I have pointed out you r error and you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

teamhurtmore – Member

Her greatest achievement – easy, ridding us of the nightmare of 1970s Britain
Her greatest failure – replacing one set of extremes with another, but probably hard to see how should could have done otherwise

Tackles: 1970s rampant inflation, excess union power, excess welfare state, over-reliance of Keynesian economic (Stop-Go cycle), IMF bailout

But leaves us with: Hayek’s “Constitution of Liberty” taken to its extreme, and over-reliance on Monetarism, the Miners Strike, turning self-reliance into “no-such thing as society”, over-reliance of market-based solutions and privatisation…..

……teamhurtmore – Member

“The Thatcherite revolution is more a product of rhetoric than of the reality of policy impact”

~See those bits in bold? Right wing dogma you espouse.

Only the left wing revolutionary guard maintain the truth everything else is wrong 😉
Surely viewing that as right wing rhetoric would be left wing rhetoric.

its an opinion just like yours

Junkyard – indeed its an opinion. My point simply is that teamhurtmore is of the right – consistently so. I wish he was either honest enough or self aware enough to accept / admit this.

he is an economist type person of course he is right wing..pretty sure he realises this but he is not a rampant thatcherite or bereft of a social conscious [ that is as much praise as you can have you scumbag right wing bastard 😉 ]

Whilst i dont agree with [all he says] him some right wing folk [ not gideon] think that the best way to improve the lot of us all is from capitalism…their heart is in the right [ see what i did there] place but their method is wrong.

Some right wing people are a moral selfish souls only after self interest and helping the rich and powerful …he is some way short of that yuppie /gordon geko charicature

TandemJeremy – Member
Junkyard – indeed its an opinion. My point simply is that teamhurtmore is of the right – consistently so.

You wrote the very same about me once on this forum.

I’ll accept that Junkyard – Its his continual insistence he is not right wing that bugs me.

See above for the summary.

See what ? I can’t see any criticism of Thatcher from someone who isn’t Thatcherite “by a long shot” other than this :

“Her greatest failure – replacing one set of extremes with another, but probably hard to see how should could have done otherwise”

Is that it ?????? 😯

Her “greatest failure” according to a geezer who has a masters in economics and likes to bind everyone with detail, jargon, acronyms, and pretty graphs, is simply summed up with “replacing one set of extremes with another”. And then he quickly exonerates her by pointing out that probably couldn’t have done otherwise.

So basically everything that Thatcher did was right, except for the things that weren’t, but they weren’t her fault anyway. So that’s just fine then.

Yeah right, you’re not Thatcherite……oh no, not by a long shot.

🙄

Non of you are better of.In a few years time when your out on the streets, your gonna have to ask yourselves. Are you feeling lucky punk?Another 10 billion Welfare cuts.God help us.

Ok TJ you have tempted me one more time with the notion that to criticise an over-reliance of Kenyesianism (in the context in which it is (falsely) applied) in the 1970s is an example of RW dogma. Excellent choice for knocking your pedastal down:

Of course, there will be naïve ‘Keynesians’ who will think it is always a special case – time to let rip and just ‘tax, spend and borrow’ in the hope that will deliver full employment – people who think we are always in 1930s-style depression and more borrowing is always the solution to unemployment.

And that is what gave Keynesianism a bad name in the 1970s.

It is why Labour leader Jim Callaghan was right to tell the Labour Party Conference in 1976 that that you can’t just spend your way to full employment.

Ed Balls (Speech to The Fabian Society, 14 January 2012 – I wonder who helped draft that?)

So you have got me. I am as RW as Ed Balls. Blimey do I/we need to wear brown shirts?

So let’s take Keynesianism a little bit further – a non-political set of policies implemented by Tory and Labour Governments alike. (Inconvenient that TJ!!). In both cases, resulted in stop-go policies as both parties found fine tuning aggregate demand/the economy difficult. Hence some people may feel it correct to say that there was an-overreliance on Keynesian policies. Bloody fascists ?!!!?

But another inconvenient truth is that to argue that Keynes = LW and monetarism = RW (did I mention that this was overdone too?) is incorrect. In fact it is either sloppy analysis or dogma (inconvenient TJ especially given that you are so self aware).

A level economics students will be able to explain how it is generally accepted that K and M policies work better under different conditions (IS-LM analysis) and best in conjunction with each other. They may even have seen a strange person loitering with graphs to help them show that in their essays. This is why the debate shifted to rules vs discretion instead.

Analysis moved on but the dogmatic stayed in the past on their pedestals of sand with their sloppy thinking. So easy to push over. And how convenient that Ed Balls is happy to do this so eloquently.

(JY – how kind!! E-L please don’t stop reading at convenient points, there is a clear list of errors in Thatcherite policies although that in itself gives too much credence to the woman.)

Whats that whooshing noise? – once more the point flying by teamhurtmore.

No matter how yo dress it up or try to fool yourself you ain’t fooling us. A naive rightwinger in self denial you remain.

Once again you keep claiming I say things I have not. I did not say keynesian was left wing.

(nice edit again – at least you have enough self awareness to correct the first attempt!)