Brexit benefits – lets start a list

the yes vote enabled the Tory loons

^ this, but also the sheer amount of time, money, and effort spent on implementing all the garbage and predictable outcomes when it could have been spent on other tjings. Not least, the NHS, in a bizarre twist.

(although I can also buy into ‘thank **** they’ve been kept busy with Brexit because imagine what they’d have managed without that to occupy them’)

Credit to Ton – my gripe isn’t with people that were fooled, or wrong, or whatever. It’s not even really with those that still genuinely believe it was the right decision, although I’d question how they come to that decision. It’s with those that know they’ve been fooled, know they were sold a pup but refuse to admit it and now are determined to double down because to change your mind is somehow weak.

Are all of Britain’s problems due to brexit? No, and no-one actually believes this.

Yet that’s all you talk about. 🤷‍♂️

The problems in this country are a result of 40 years of neo-liberalism, not 3 years of being out of the EU. People are waking up to that fact (despite the denialism on this thread), so there’s some hope of positive change.

Anyway, you’ll be glad to know I‘m flouncing for now as I’m on holiday in Portugal at a French resort. It’s nice not being around brits with a chip on their shoulder, although they do have a weird penchant for dressing up.

PS I was talking to one of my French relatives last night and they spent the night telling me about all the problems with racism in France and how the trains are shit. Weird eh! 😀

I was against the EC in theory (‘bosses’ club’ and all that) but in practice what motivated the Tories was more neoliberal deregulation and with a weakly organised labour market it was clear how damaging it was going to be so I voted remain. The degradation of the country under Tory rule was going on for years but brexit has made it worse. Politicians are now flagging up that ‘we’ can’t afford the state pensions (which are about the lowest in Europe) and both major parties seem intent on more privatisation of the NHS. Ton’s right, travelling in Europe makes you feel like you’re coming from the 3W and a visit to Leclerc  feels like a foody’s paradise in comparison with M&S or Waitrose. However I don’t think rejoining in itself will be a panacea and both major parties are singing from the same hymn sheet of ‘growth’ (trickle down) and ‘difficult decisions’ (austerity, privatisation) so it comes down to people fighting their own corner in the labour market, in communities and on the streets. It would be misplaced faith to imagine that parliamentary politicians will solve these issues for the majority and they have no intention of doing so, they are there to protect the system as it is at the cost of everyone else.

Yet that’s all you talk about. 🤷‍♂️

You’re surprised that people discuss brexit on a thread discussing a brexit-related topic? It’s literally in the subject.

(despite the denialism on this thread)

Despite the denialism in your head.

How are those benefits looking, have you come up with any yet?

You’re surprised that people discuss brexit on a thread discussing a brexit-related topic?

No I’m surprised how people here now blame brexit for just about everything that’s going on whether it’s the case or not. Thankfully this forum isn’t really representative of the real world. In the real world many people (especially leave voters) are now thinking that we’ve left the EU and everything is still shit so there must be something else going on.

@dazh you still haven’t told me what I’m supposed to be making the best of. I’m all ears.

I thought you were leaving? You can’t even get a self-announced flounce straight.

In any case (again) there is no-one with half a brain who doesn’t realise that there is “something else going on,” the notion that everyone thinks that the entirety of Britain’s ills is all down to brexit doesn’t exist outside of your own head. Again (again again) this is a strawman argument, you’ve made it up because it suits your agenda. Without being able to rag on everyone else, your standpoint is a house of cards.

We’re in a mess, yes, you’re right. And there are many factors at play. Of which, Brexit is a large one. To blame everything on brexit is foolish and short-sighted I agree, but to deny that it’s contributory at all is disingenuous at best.

Hate to break it to you Daz, but “I voted remain but…” ain’t buttering any parsnips. It’s in the same bucket as “I’m not racist but…” We see you. We all see you.

@dazh you still haven’t told me what I’m supposed to be making the best of. I’m all ears.

Still waiting for a list of those blatantly obvious future benefits he’s already told us about, too.

In the real world many people (especially leave voters) are now thinking that we’ve left the EU and everything is still even more shit…

FTFY

No I’m surprised how people here now blame brexit for just about everything that’s going on whether it’s the case or not.

We’re not blaming Brexit for everything, it’s the main factor on top of lots of other shitty factors. Without it having happened we would be in a much better position than we are now, still a crap one but better. I’m scared for the next few years as the rest of Europe gets on with recovering from everything that’s happened in the last few years while we as a country are stifled by the effects of Brexit with no tangible benefits whatsoever. We’re still on the downward slide whilst others are starting the rebuilding process that we cannot even consider starting until after the next election, provided that the current lot are removed from office which is definitely not a given despite the opinion polls.

@dazh you still haven’t told me what I’m supposed to be making the best of.

Think you’re mistaking me for someone who thinks brexit is a good thing.

you’ve made it up because it suits your agenda.

My only agenda is getting on with life. If you want to spend the rest of your days regretting what might have been carry on. It’s utterly pointless.

We’re still on the downward slide whilst others are starting the rebuilding process that we cannot even consider starting until after the next election

Absolutely right. Glad you acknowledge that it’s our useless current govt and that things could/should/will get better when we finally get rid of them.

I’m well aware of what your agenda is. You let it slip on the original brexit thread.

How are those brexit benefits looking, come up with any yet?

You’re really bad at flouncing, aren’t you. “I’m leaving. Hey, I’m leaving! LOOK AT ME I’M LEAVING!! Are you all deaf?! I’ll keep posting until you pay me some attention!” The key feature of flouncing is to just **** off, because no-one cares.

My only agenda is getting on with life.

Except your not because all you do is talk about people talking about Brexit

If you want to spend the rest of your days regretting what might have been carry on. It’s utterly pointless.

I don’t quite know what this means. Regretting something is an emotion, not something you actively do. I don’t sit here regretting brexit instead of mowing the lawn, or doing dishes or something. We’re all getting on with life, of course we are – what choice do we have?

If you’re asking us to forget all about it – I don’t think that’s going to happen. It’ll become part of history, and it will be discussed and analysed as such like Thatcher is now, or Suez or something.

Yet that’s all you talk about.

[ checks posters’ contributions to other threads ]

You’re bullshitting, and trolling, and obvious with it.

Think you’re mistaking me for someone who thinks brexit is a good thing.

No, I’m identifying you as someone has said that in the past. Since you can’t identify a tangible benefit to this nonsense (which is what the actual question was) perhaps you can tell us how to make the best of it as you have so often done in the past.

things could/should/will get better

Heard that one before

Still as tangible now as it was then. Coulda shoulda woulda didn’t work out in the end.

Its does amuse this desire from some on the left to forget about brexit.   Its not over and done with – the most damaging parts are yet to come and no matter how much you wish it labour are going to have to account for their pusillanimous brexiteer position.  Pretending its not happened doesn’t make it go away.  pretend you can “make brexit work” is a lie

Absolutely right. Glad you acknowledge that it’s our useless current govt and that things could/should/will get better when we finally get rid of them.

It’s parts of this useless government and the ones before it since 2014 or so that enabled Brexit and made multiple other **** along the way, the two are inseparable. Until we get a government that acknowledged that mistakes have been made and we need to do whatever it takes to undo them (this includes Brexit, our immigration policy, our right to protest, the state of the NHS, the destruction of the whole public sector system in general and our right-wing press’ hold over the electorate amongst lot sof other things).

Brexit and it’s failure is everything right now. It is the ticket that got us the governments we have had for the last 6 years, the government that has screwed up our country during the pandemic, the government that has alienated us from most of Europe, that has soured our relationship with the US, that has debased society so far that it’ll take multiple generations to fix.

Let me reiterate that: Brexit is at the core of everything, directly and indirectly. Until you understand this and stop pretending things are magically going to get better then there is no discussion to have with you.

I normally don’t bite for trolls but this is such a fundamental issue for this country right now that I have to say the above. There is no way forward for us until we start undoing the damage that Brexit has done, that includes changing our ruling party amongst many other things but it is the core issue as the government has been elected on that basis. Ignoring that is stupid and dangerous.

“Brexit is at the core of everything, directly and indirectly. Until you understand this and stop pretending things are magically going to get better then there is no discussion to have with you.”

I thought I had all bases covered but I’m adding narcissism for dummies to the starter pack.

Let me reiterate that: Brexit is at the core of everything, directly and indirectly. Until you understand this and stop pretending things are magically going to get better then there is no discussion to have with you.

Is true – there is a fundamental deceit we see from some of the leftists posters

1) pretending brexit is over and sorted
2) pretending that labor can make brexit work

3) pretending that labour will not be held to account for their brexiteers stance at the next GE

Brexit is core and central to our issues, pretending will not cure anything

I thought I had all bases covered but I’m adding narcissism for dummies to the starter pack.

There’s no narcissism in there at all. To fix anything you have to understand the underlying issues. If the Brexit vote had gone the other way we would have stayed in, Cameron would not have resigned, the right wing of the Conservative Party would have been kept quiet for a few years (the vote was to shut them up, no-one thought they would actually win) and we would have been on a completely different trajectory as a country. To fix the country you have to go back to that point and identify the various stages where things went wrong and act accordingly to repair things, not undo them but change the course of decisions for the better. Once that has been actioned you can then start to build on better foundations, leaving things in a better state for future generations.

Still waiting for a list of those blatantly obvious future benefits he’s already told us about, too.

Glad I didn’t hold my breath; I’ve got nobody here who could resuscitate me…

Brexit is at the core of everything, directly and indirectly.

Hmm. I’ll disagree. Brexit is a symptom of even deeper problems.

stop pretending things are magically going to get better

Things probably will get better – not magically, but eventually we will end up with better politicians than we have now. They won’t be all the way good, we probably still won’t be back in the EU for decades, but things will probably be better in many areas than they are now at some point in the not too distant future.

, but things will probably be better in many areas than they are now at some point in the not too distant future.

I admire your unfailing optimism.  shame that neither labour nor the tories are actually suggesting anything to improve things.

What issues do we face that brexit is not central to?

Things probably will get better – not magically, but eventually we will end up with better politicians than we have now

Why, how? When was the ‘golden era’ of MPs and how would we get back to that now, i.e. not as much blatant lying/making stuff up, resigning when they have done wrong etc,. not in it for themselves quite as much, an electorate who actually care what the MPs is up to rather tea just voting for whatever MP represents the party they want in power.

While the main platform of both major parties is quite plainly built on a lie, it’s inevitable that the only politicians we  will get are those who are either thick as mince or quite happy to lie blatantly and pursue policies that they know to be extremely harmful to the country, in order to advance their careers. I know politicians have always tended to varnish the truth and say what they think people want to hear, but recent years have elevated this to an entirely different plane. Both tory and labour have quite openly and obviously purged those on the relatively sane wings of the party.

There are those who still like to believe that Starmer is a clever man playing the long game, but I don’t buy it. Years spent in a bubble of invincible ignorance, repeatedly telling the same lies, can’t pass without leaving a mark.

Brexit isn’t an opportunity any more than a hole in the head is an opportunity to have some emergency surgery. If “making the best of it” means anything, it means fixing the problems to the fullest extent possible, as soon as possible. Which means minimising its injurious effects.

The vote was one thing, the botched implementation was another entirely.

Molly – you believe they’ve “botched” it?  How quaint.

Let me take you back to my quote “Brexit isn’t the destination, it’s the vehicle” – do you not understand yet what is going on?

There are those who still like to believe that Starmer is a clever man playing the long game, but I don’t buy it.

Disagree, he’s playing the “long game” because he knows that only once they’re in power can they do anything – remember under UK’s First Past The Post system you only need a majority of 1 to be the ‘dictator’ for the next 5 years.

Oh, so what Machiavellian plot do you think he’s planning with this majority of 1 then?

Lols.

Cougar

i fell for the 350 million to the nhs thing, hook line and sinker.

To be fair Ton, that’s not uncommon. The Brexit Bus tipped the vote over the line.

I still don’t get the £350 million thing… this was a very easy to check non subjective fact and a very obvious lie rather than “promises” of trade deals or such.
I guess people believed curved bananas and stuff?

Did he ever say it?

On TV the day after the referendum, if I recall correctly.

My memory is he said “THEY shouldn’t have said that”. I don’t think he actually said that BEFORE, I’m just saying as far as I know he just let it be said and said nothing until the day after.

Reluctantjumper

I’m scared for the next few years as the rest of Europe gets on with recovering from everything that’s happened in the last few years while we as a country are stifled by the effects of Brexit with no tangible benefits whatsoever.

One thing you can be sure of is when the EU moves to protect its members and improve the economic situation it will be classed as “punishing the UK for leaving”.

do you not understand yet what is going on?

I do, I think, fairly well. If you want to see how the Tories botched it, look at the polls. Both Westminster intention and the rejoin/bad idea ones.

What issues do we face that brexit is not central to?

– A big competence deficit in politics
– Anti-intellectualism in society
– Poor quality public discourse, caused by social media and biased media outlets, related to the diminshing of the BBC
– Under-funding in education and the trashing of education as a desirable profession
– Under-funding everything including health
– Not having PR
– Regional inequality

When was the ‘golden era’ of MPs and how would we get back to that now,

I’m not saying there was ever a golden age. I’m saying that things are now significantly worse than the baseline level of shitness that we’ve experienced since WW2, and before long we will return to that baseline which would represent an improvement. It would not be a wonderful solution to our problems but we might start to fix a few of them, a bit.

NOne of those things are anywhere near as critical as brexit –

Stop trying to hide from brexit – I know its labour policy to hide and pretend its not happening but its stupid

the troies did not botch brexit – they got exactly what they wanted from it including the pusillanimous response from Labour which has totally let the tories of the hook for the blame

Brexit is 100% central to the vast majority of issues we face – from healthcare recruitment to destruction of industry and cannot be fixed without reversing brexit – this is the reality you and the labour party need to face

The Telegraph has a solution to Britains woes having had its favoured government in power for 12 years….

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/08/17/under-50-time-jump-ship-leave-britain/

In fairness that approach was one followed by the owners of the telegraph a long time ago (although since Lloyds called in the loan not sure the Barclays are still the owners).
The brexiteer elite have always been fond of showing their patriotic love of the UK by living elsewhere.

If you’re under 50, it’s time to jump ship – get out of Britain while you can

The UK seems incapable of solving its own issues, and things are set to get worse

If our national policy was set by listening to the under 50, then the country would be in a better state for them. Brexit being only the most obvious example. And I say that as someone with only a few weeks to go before that excludes me. Of course, the ultimately irony about that Telegraph piece is that you now need to be far more wealthy to get out and into a whole load of countries than you did before… you know what.

My sister and her family and my mum and dad have all left the UK in the last year for Ireland as a direct result of Brexit. They seem utterly smitten with their decision. Broke my kid’s hearts seeing their cousins and grandparents go.

I will never, ever, forgive the xenophobic halfwits who brought this on. That telegraph article totally riles me.

I still don’t get the £350 million thing… this was a very easy to check non subjective fact and a very obvious lie rather than “promises” of trade deals or such.
I guess people believed curved bananas and stuff?

You’ve just answered your own question. I’m increasingly of the mind that no-one fact-checks anything that they want to be true.

I’ve seen it first-hand on an anti-brexit Facebook group. They post some brexie lie about bendy bananas or whatever, fall over themselves to look up the truth with a side order of “gullible idiots, it’s seconds’ work to google.” Then someone will post utter nonsense which agrees with the group narrative and no-one blinks, they just accept it. Both sides are as bad as each other.

Once someone has made up their mind about something, most people seek validation and blindly reject anything that might be in danger of challenging it. Folk believed the bus lie because why wouldn’t they, it’s on a bus. And the uncomfortable truth is as I said at the start, they wanted it to be true.

It’s going to be a very short thread!

lolz

NOne of those things are anywhere near as critical as brexit

I disagree. Many of them are the things that led to it. Brexit didn’t fall out of the sky one afternoon, did it?

Stop trying to hide from brexit

You **** what?!

Am I not a vocal and persistent Brexit critic? Have I not excoriated it many times over the years? On this very thread a few pages back I explain why it is not something that can be moved on from.

Brexit is 100% central to the vast majority of issues we face – from healthcare recruitment to destruction of industry and cannot be fixed without reversing brexit

But why do we have Brexit? A seed needs fertile ground in which to grow. Brexit did not start in 2015.