Brexit benefits – lets start a list

the point is they didn’t get what they wanted
we’re poorer, the NHS is more screwed than ever, immigration is even more out of control (if u believe Lee Anderson… & they do)
you can’t shutdown democracy like that daz, the day after the vote , it didn’t stop

SM membership will be back on the cards in a GE or 2

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who-want-to-rejoin-eu-at-highest-since-2016-survey-finds

whats telling is that despite the title of the thread youve not been able to come up with an actual benefit yer daz….

the point is they didn’t get what they wanted

How do you know what they wanted? They voted to leave the EU, now we’re no longer in the EU. Seems pretty obvious to me they got exactly what they wanted.

we’re poorer, the NHS is more screwed than ever, immigration is even more out of control

All things which are directly dependent on UK govt policy whether we are in the EU or not. All these issues are far more complicated than simply being in the EU. We’ve been getting poorer since the 80s, the NHS has been on the slide since 2010, and immigration has been a ‘problem’ (interesting to hear a remainer describe immigration as a problem BTW) forever.

you can’t shutdown democracy like that daz, the day after the vote , it didn’t stop

True, but there is stuff that is possible, and stuff that isn’t. Rejoining the EU is the latter.

SM membership will be hack on the cards in a GE or 2

Probably yes. Or something that looks a lot like it without formally being in the SM. In 10 years I doubt many who voted to leave will be too bothered about it, they’ll be worrying about other stuff.

whats telling is that despite the title of the thread youve not been able to come up with a single specific benefit yer daz….

Funny that given I don’t think there are many benefits. But go back up the thread and you’ll find at least one I think is a significant benefit assuming Starmer doesn’t f*** it all up.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>interesting to hear a remainer describe immigration as a problem BTW)</p>

which is why i very clearly said “if u believe lee Anderson” which you chose to ignore

All these issues are far more complicated than simply being in the EU

the point is (and im not sure if youre deliberately missing it) is that the leave campaign promised all those things would improve… the very opposite has happened

youre still being very vague with these benefits, not mentioned anything specific

As benefits are not forthcoming may be better to ask the question what can the UK technically do now that it could not do when in the EU.

Having a list of the things the UK can now do you could try and work out where any benefits could be gained by exercising any of them.

I admit I don’t really know what is on that list as it seems a lot of the ‘benefits’ are things that could have largely been done while in the EU.

True, but there is stuff that is possible, and stuff that isn’t. Rejoining the EU is the latte

so you claim.  there is no actual reason why not

SM membership will be hack on the cards in a GE or 2

It will be an issue in the next GE as well and labour are going to have to defend their position

what can the UK technically do now that it could not do when in the EU.

It can do its own trade deals. However as a relatively small and insignificant country these are likely to be worse than what we had through the EU, even if the EU deals weren’t specifically designed for us (they were of course designed with our input and cooperation).

The UK can also set its own environmental and working standards, and we can see how that is working out for (a) the workers (b) the owners and (c) the residents of these shit-encrusted islands.

whereas now it’s the opposite with remainers refusing to accept they lost and continuing to fight battles that were decided in 2016.

Once again, your argument fails you. You could equally argue this was sorted in the 70s and the Brexies should have just put up with it.
You can have it either way – fight in or don’t. But not both.

As for leave voters moving on, agreed, according to polls many now regret Brexit and are considering another referendum at some point.
The Brexy press and the Brexy elites, less so. They are the ones who should be in the dock for the damage they have done to this country.
Not everything is their fault – but they knowingly caused further damage.

Another referendum is just going to mess us about yet again, there is no way in this world that we get back in the EU with the same preferential status we had, France moved fast to make sure they swept up what they could, and the likes of Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc did the same, Germany and the Netherlands were about the only real allies wanting us to stay (i know there were a couple more, but can’t quite remember which ones).

I just don’t see the framework of the EU staying in place over the next 20 years, there’s so much change happening just now, there’s a move to the far right with a few countries, Russian allegiances with others, then the likes of France are always more inwardly looking, the whole thing feels like the frying pan and fire scenario just now.

Personally, i’ll wait for a change in government before any thoughts of how we progress, just now the only positive is that the Pro Brexit brigade aren’t getting what they want either, and whinging about it, the loss of a tory government would destroy any hopes of the full brexit they dream off.

I just don’t see the framework of the EU staying in place over the next 20 years

People have confidently predicted 38 of the last zero times the EU fell apart.

It serves no one’s purpose to be continually raking over old ground.

It’s not “old ground” when it’s current and ongoing. You seem to simultaneously think that “Brexit is done” and that we have to wait a long time to see the benefits. So… what goes in that gap? How to we get to the point where we “make the most of Brexit” without discussing the “Benefits of Brexit” that we’re trying to grasp here in this thread? That makes no more sense than ignoring the problems caused by Brexit that still need resolving.

For those of us who hated the idea of brexit, we need to accept that things have changed.

Not just changed. Are changing and need changing. If you don’t discuss any of that you’re sticking your head in the sand and saying “shut up”. Why would you do that?

The UK can also set its own environmental and working standards, and we can see how that is working out for (a) the workers (b) the owners and (c) the residents of these shit-encrusted islands.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>unfortunately for us those concerns will take a back seat: to make up for what we’ve lost government of any flavour will sacrifice those very things if it means a trade deal or getting any sort of competitive edge</p>

All I can say to the likes of Daz is never forget, never forgive. It was the leftist pipe dream peddled by the likes of Corbyn that leaving the EU would allow us to bolster workers rights and prop up failing businesses (in sectors they approved of) that ultimately enabled Brexit. Most enhanced rights for people in the UK were driven by EU membership, not by any UK government.

I just don’t see the framework of the EU staying in place over the next 20 years

Twenty years is a long time thou for a prediction thou,no-one thought we’d be out of the eu one year before the referendum was announced.(as it wasn’t a thing)

It’s removing the freedom of movement from the kids that doesn’t sit well with me.
As we continue the Brexit voyage more and more I think it was a selfish/spiteful act.

He says sat in his pants outside a Spanish Villa.

Now that’s an opportunity that’s been lost to many unless you’ve a pile of money.
I think it’s gone from proving €9k a year income to €36k for a couple (oottomh).

and just to make my point about environmental standards being thrown under the brexit bus now we’re free from the shackles of Brussels….

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/19/fury-as-national-health-check-of-englands-waters-delayed-by-six-years

Queueing at the passport check. The English do like a queue.

so you claim. there is no actual reason why not

There is no reason that you can see. However everyone else can.

Queueing at the passport check. The English do like a queue.

Only if everyone is queuing properly, otherwise thats a recipe for PTSD

and just to make my point about environmental standards being thrown under the brexit bus now we’re free from the shackles of Brussels….

Oh that’s a big part of Lil’ Richie’s pitch for the next GE, they’ve convinced themselves with the narrative from Uxbridge that enviro-skeptics are the new front to the culture war and that by using their Brexity freedoms they can piss on policy, prior commitments and laws in order to score votes… The thing is I really don’t believe it’s the vote winner they think…

As for leave voters moving on

Have to admit, I dont know anyone that hasnt moved on from the referendum itself, but you can’t actually move on from Brexit as we are living with the consequences and we all will be living with those consequences for the rest of our lives. Thats how historical events work, the set the path for the future. Those impacts may well fade over time, or they may prove pivotal but they never actually stop existing.

Even in some world where we managed to grow up and reconcile our differences with the EU and rejoined we would be dealing with the consequences of Brexit due to having different terms agreed on rejoining.

The thing is I really don’t believe it’s the vote winner they think…

It’s not. The Australian conservatives tried the same thing and they lost miserably. What it does need though is Starmer to stick to labour’s green poicies without watering them down. Given his limp-wristed u-turning to date that doesn’t bode well.

All I can say to the likes of Daz is never forget, never forgive. It was the leftist pipe dream peddled by the likes of Corbyn

If you want to live your life like that go for it, but it seems like a one way ticket to bad stuff from where I’m looking. And no, hardly anyone, including Corbyn, was campaigning for brexit from a leftist standpoint. Say what you like about brexit, but it wasn’t leftists who made it happen.

and immigration has been a ‘problem’ (interesting to hear a remainer describe immigration as a problem BTW) forever.

immigration is what you make it… or what I mean by that is the “issue” or “problem” isn’t the immigration itself but how that is managed.

Most people (including immigrants) are xenophobic, it’s human nature but people in general seem to have less issue when immigrants join a community than establish there own. You could say the same thing for English people in Wales or Scots in England .. the difference partly is they don’t stick out unless they wear kilts and open their mouths.. whereas someone with a different skin colour can’t help but stick out

This is to a large extent what racists exploit to try and create a fear in perfectly normal xenophobes.

immigration is what you make it… or what I mean by that is the “issue” or “problem” isn’t the immigration itself but how that is managed.

Totally agree. The UK should join Schengen as other non-EU countries have. Probably a pipedream though given our* little-englander attitude. Give it a decade or so though I don’t think it would be completely outlandish to think we could in both the SM (or something similar without formal membership) and Schengen. Maybe those are reasonable goals to aim for rather than rejoining? As long as leave voters can still say ‘we’re out’ then I doubt they care too much about the rest of it. We need to get over the racism around immigration though.

*mostly a South East/Home counties problem IMO. I reckon the north would have no problem with free movement.

Say what you like about brexit, but it wasn’t leftists who made it happen.

Semantics, they fully enabled it, if Corbyn had come out positively pro EU we’d still be members. Corbyn might not have actively campaigned for a leftist idealogical Brexit but he sure as hell wanted it and all he had to do was sit on the fence or better still be completely absent which was exactly what he did. In my book hed be up against the wall alongside Johnson, Farage et al.

Corbyn had one job to do, counter the lunacy of the sitting government, he failed miserably then gifted them a massive majority.

Does it count as failing if you dont even try?

It’s interesting that Corbyn is considered a “Leftist”. I’d have characterised him as a left leaning “Liberal” (more left than most of his party) he was after all leader of a mainstream democratic party.

Labour is just another Centrist party, a bit more Liberal in their outlook, but really not the radical leftists the Tory’s keep trying to paint them as. They’re not going to shake much up and they are cognisant of the fact that too much radical change, too fast will spook the cattle…

Right now the UK needs a more liberal/progressive, centrist government, that will implement environmental and socially responsible policies and start re-tooling our economy towards those goals. We certainly don’t have that now, we might get that from Labour, perhaps. Nobody really knows for sure do they, maybe not even SKS. But if the nation was willing to take a gamble on Boris, I can’t see how Kier is any worse…

Anyway if Brexit is going to give us anything it’s got to be the ability to do a UK version of the US’ “Green New Deal” i.e. protectionism under the banner of “environmental capitalism” if they can’t even do that, which is arguably a big chunk of what was promised, then yes I’m not sure what else Brexity types can really claim as a win…

What it does need though is Starmer to stick to labour’s green poicies without watering them down. Given his limp-wristed u-turning to date that doesn’t bode well.

So basically your only benefit is just another for the ‘potential’ list since it doesn’t look like Labour are going to realise it.

Let’s change the question though, you want us to accept it and make the most of it.

How? Tell us what to make the most of.

Isn’t that the great game of Brexit, it’s not working as you ‘You’ haven’t took advantage of the potential.

The onus is always on the person asking about it.

It’s a magical thing 🙂

7 years in and it’s still unicorns.

Reading Daz’s output here is like a Monty Python sketch.

“The potential benefits are obvious to anyone as clever as me.”

“Oh? What are they then?”

“I’ve told you once!”

Pretend that you think we’re all thick (well, you don’t really need to pretend do you) and remind us? Literally everyone else here has clearly missed one of your posts where you explained it all in great detail.

Reading Daz’s output here is like a Monty Python sketch.

“The potential benefits are obvious to anyone as clever as me.”

“Oh? What are they then?”

“I’ve told you once!”

Pretend that you think we’re all thick (well, you don’t really need to pretend do you) and remind us? Literally everyone else here has clearly missed one of your posts where you explained it all in great detail.

THIS – I came in just to see if anything useful had been said but it’s the same old same old. “In X yrs blah blah, it hasn’t worked because Y didn’t do yada yada yada….”

NOT ONE SINGLE POSITIVE..

*mostly a South East/Home counties problem IMO. I reckon the north would have no problem with free movement.

Care to quantify that??? Or do you think it’s only the South who have the monopoly on narrow minded biggots…..

Say what you like about brexit, but it wasn’t leftists who made it happen.

REALLY??????

Conveniently forgetting Corbyn’s 3 line whip to get A50 over the line are we???

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38833883

Ten pages and counting, nine of which are mostly mirroring the main Brexit thread. I’m surprised it’s not been closed.

So, brexit benefits, then?

There are benefits, of course. Just not for the people who voted for it. Or against it. Or didn’t. Or couldn’t.

The biggest brexit benefit is for the entire EU27. They get shot of a whiny pissant country with delusions of adequacy who still thinks it rules the waves. It also killed stone dead any signs of dissent from other countries, once we’d committed harakiri to demonstrate just how bloody stupid it would be without some actual thought and proper planning in place first.

I bet Putin is loving it. There’s nothing the top nobs in Russia would like more than to destabilise the West.

Meanwhile, back in good old Blighty, it’s been hugely lucrative for those who don’t like paying tax from their offshore bank accounts. For Billy the greengrocer however, he’s somewhere between “useful idiot” and “collateral damage.” Hey Billy, remember strawberries?

*mostly a South East/Home counties problem IMO. I reckon the north would have no problem with free movement.

Care to quantify that??? Or do you think it’s only the South who have the monopoly on narrow minded biggots…..

They’re everywhere. Plenty in Wales, Scotland and the other parts of England. Basically the bits of the country where immigrants, illegal or legal, aren’t commonplace.

Anyway if Brexit is going to give us anything it’s got to be the ability to do a UK version of the US’ “Green New Deal” i.e. protectionism under the banner of “environmental capitalism”

You are aware that the EU is doing this already, aren’t you? And signing up to work with the USA on it. We’re being left behind. And without a Time Machine Labour won’t be catching us up if and when they eventually take power… they may well do what needs doing to not fall further behind (the Tories are literally running us in the opposite direction) but we’ll start from well behind because of Brexit (assuming of course in this parallel non Brexit scenario the UK wasn’t sabotaging the EU plans).

So… Brexit benefit… we can do green subsidy focussed protectionism on a smaller scale with a much smaller market than either the USA or EU. And in reality end up doing so later, if at all. Even if you spin it well, the reality is still slower, smaller, and likely a lower return on investment and a smaller green industry manufacturing base than if we’d been acting as part of the EU.

A better way to stop Brexit would have been Corbyn getting whole heartedly behind it.

Brexit belongs to the Tories and the right.  And it’ll be the left that saves us from this mess.

Cougar

Reading Daz’s output here is like a Monty Python sketch.

TBH can’t decide if the whole of Brexit is more “what did the Romans ever do for us” or “if I want to put a condom on my john thomas”…

**** me this thread is depressing.

Did you expect anything else from the topic description? There’s nothing uplifting or happy at all about it!

But, it’s about benefits!

That must be good, right?