Brazil 2014. The World Cup thread

…said Chris Waddle on the previous page and back in 2010

There are lots of reasons why Uruguay won last night – the English team being less than 50% of those, and the singing of the national anthem being a tiny proportion of that.

Understand this my point being that they just did not look up for it. Indeed this is my main bug bear – English players don’t seem to want to prove themselves in an England shirt. Too much adoration from club supporters and press. Also agree about trying to get players working together but last night we had five Liverpool players and even they could not work together (apart from Gerrard and Suárez)

Lets see if I can continue my 2 out 3 theme record!(obviously I’m wildly off on correct score!)

Today’s inaccurate predictions:

Italy v Costa Rica – Italy 2-0
Swiss v France – France 0-1
Ecuador v Honduras – draw.

my point being that they just did not look up for it. Indeed this is my main bug bear – English players don’t seem to want to prove themselves in an England shirt.

Not sure it’s that especially (though some may feel it more or less than others). I suspect they did, though don’t disagree the way they played seemed nervous when on the ball – as if they were too scared of losing to feel comfortable to try to win.

But, as always, the performance of a team is always less than 50% of the reason why they do or don’t play well (the rest is down to the opposition and conditions (pitch, weather, officials)).

Looked at more broadly, that apparent nervousness didn’t help when presented by a determined Uruguayan defence that worked well front to back. Look at the the decision to use two men to close Sterling, Sturridge and Rooney. A good tactical move, which was well executed.

The Italy game gave hope. The Uruguayan game gave reality.

I gouda shout for the Swiss. Hopefully the French will crash and Berne.

The Italy game gave hope. The Uruguayan game gave reality.

One suspects that they perhaps felt that they were going to play a weaker team and that just didn’t happen, as you say Uruguay were determined and did what they had to do, when they had to do it.

Other 50%:
Should the Uruguayans have been down to 10 men?
Should Roy have kept the same formation that he used against Italy?
Should Ashley Cole have been playing at left back?

Differing nervous passes across the back four, half hearted lobs instead of decisive sharp passes upfront, sporadic urgency off the ball and a lack of concentration.

Could have been any England team of the last 30 yrs.

The reason..I dont know media pressure, lack of national pride, overpaid, home league dominated by foreign players?? who knows but if I seem cycnical its because Im fed up of watching my overhyped national team getting embarrased by nations a tenth of our size who whilst no more skillful at least have the decency to turn up and show some spirit.

IanW – Member
home league dominated by foreign players??

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner!

overhyped

Edison Cavani cost PSG over £50 million, cost more than any England player ever has, yet isn’t as good as Suarez. Massivly hyped though, so it’s not just ‘our’ players; all nations will have similar criticism. Some brazillians i spoke to last night were very critical of most of ther team’s players, with Neymar getting a lot of the flak. And I dare’t broach the subject with any Sapniards at the moment. 😯

I gouda shout for the Swiss. Hopefully the French will crash and Berne.

Nope. The French are going to wine it.

Look at the the decision to use two men to close Sterling, Sturridge and Rooney. A good tactical move, which was well executed.

Indeed. They were really physical too. Nobody got any time on the ball, before they had 2 Uruguayans clattering into them. When we didn’t have the ball, we were casually trotting about, standing off them, and not even attempting to close them down. We could have done with a couple of Scholes-esque tackles on Suarez.

One team looked like they wanted it. One didn’t. Simple as that

This is a very interesting point of view from Psycho

We could have done with a couple of Scholes-esque tackles on Suarez.

Which undoubtedly have resulted in at least one red card, leaving us in an even more desperate situation.

This is a very interesting point of view from Psycho

Very. I have no way of verifying what he says, but he’s infinitely closer to make that call than any of us.

(And if I can just labour the rugby point for binners’ benefit – similar is true in Welsh rugby, where clubs were amalgamated into regional teams. Talented youngsters join those teams and then sit on the bench. Eventually, the lack of experience and play means they fall behind those less talented but who get more play time.)

Which undoubtedly have resulted in at least one red card, leaving us in an even more desperate situation.

If that ref had been the card-happy type, then Uruguay would have been down to 10 men half way through the first half. They were putting some pretty bloody strong challenges in. We weren’t.

I like Robbie Savage’s honesty about this kind of thing. He said that if someone was coming back from injury, like Suarez, within the opening couple of minutes he’d absolutely clatter them, and let them know thats what they’ll be getting for the rest of the game.

How many times did you see Rooney, Stirling or Sturridge get blatantly taken out last night? Plenty!

How many strong physical challenges did you see any England players make. None!

Edison Cavani cost PSG over £50 million, cost more than any England player ever has, yet isn’t as good as Suarez.

Cavani was barely involved in the game at all last night, but the one significant moment he was, he produced a moment of total quality, and that’s why he’s there.

Watching last night with Tyred Jr (hard to beat watching a world cup with a 9 year old football obsessive-in-the-making) he remarked on the difference in basic technique between the two sides. For the majority of the game, Uruguay’s players simply looked more comfortable with the ball at their feet than England’s, with the possible exception of Sterling. Nerves undoubtedly play a part in that – after the equaliser, all of a sudden Uruguay weren’t as easy in possession as they had been, but that spell only lasted 10 minutes and England couldn’t capitalise.

Talented youngsters join those teams and then sit on the bench

Sorry not true as two of the regions are so skint they cant afford overseas players, you may be thinking of the Ospreys galacticos but those days are long gone.

They just gave us no time on the ball, even in our own half they ran about like lunatics to close us down. Fair play, it really worked.

Edison Cavani cost PSG over £50 million,

PSG definitely have more money than sense….they are spending the same on David Luiz FFS!

How many strong physical challenges did you see any England players make. None!

I believe that would have been because our players were told to be careful of making challenges that would result in cards. Some for perhaps their own reasons didn’t want cards to make them miss the latter stages…….which they are going to anyway! 🙁

They just gave us no time on the ball, even in our own half they ran about like lunatics to close us down. Fair play, it really worked.

Yep…we weren’t good enough to play through/around them.

johndoh – Member

This is a very interesting point of view from Psycho

“Five years ago our Under-21s played the German Under-21s in the European finals. I look at their team then and the one that lined up against Portugal in the World Cup. Six of their players from the Under-21s carried on their progression, stayed in the senior squad, and actually played against Portugal the other day.

“I looked at our squad [for the Under-21 European Championship five years ago] and out of that squad there were no players in our starting line-up that five years ago made the same journey. James Milner was in the squad and played but obviously didn’t get on the pitch the other day [against Uruguay] and Joe Hart ended up being suspended so possibly you could say two [did make the journey].

“Why last summer were 17 of our young players missing from an Under-21 tournament? It infuriates the life out of me.

He might be onto something there

what ? They have better players than england hence they got in the team?

That is the basic problem. Look at the top 5 teams, how many from england, of any age, make the squad?
How many start?

That is the problem not how the U21’s are managed

He is correct shaw will have learnt more playing though.

But as it isn’t the agenda of foreign owned prem clubs to nurture our homegrown talents, the youth set-up has to compensate.

One team looked like they wanted it. One didn’t. Simple as that

Sssh, I think you got away with it this time, but you are not allowed to say things like that on here. I tried it once which was good for 3 pages of verbals….. 😉

I think they wanted it, they just didn’t know how to get it. Simply wanting something isn’t enough. Otherwise I’d be rich and not have to work.

Well the combination of wanting it, and also being quite good seemed to be a winner

Sssh, I think you got away with it this time, but you are not allowed to say things like that on here. I tried it once which was good for 3 pages of verbals…..

Because it’s bullshit.

And, for the second time this week, do give over.

I think they wanted it, they just didn’t know how to get it.

It’s this, they struggled against the pressing tactics which is a surprize at the Premiership is played pretty much that way.

But I don’t think for a single minute second that they wanted it any less. Running around hacking at players legs fighting for balls doesn’t prove you want it more and if England had responded by doing that it would just show indiscipline – they train for hours and hours and formulate game plans – just like a boxer does. Their plan worked on Saturday (apart from the result, but the football was good), it just didn’t last night.

Lol.. apparently Balotelli tweeted that if they beat Costa Rica he expects a kiss from the Queen.

molgrips – Member
Lol.. apparently Balotelli tweeted that if they beat Costa Rica he expects a kiss from the Queen.

Got to love that guy! 😀

deadlydarcy – Member
Sssh, I think you got away with it this time, but you are not allowed to say things like that on here. I tried it once which was good for 3 pages of verbals…..

Because it’s bullshit.

QED 😀

Even past players admit it, but keep it shhh, you know who.

The fact that we didn’t know how to or what to do seemed depressingly obvious and quickly. Seemed more akin to watching U11 schoolboy hoof and chase.

molgrips – Member
I think they wanted it, they just didn’t know how to get it.

yip, managers fault that.

are youse keeping him btw? I’d punt him and try for someone else.

Is there a new verse to the “Stevie Gerrard fell on his arse…” song yet?

I think we have been bloody short changed by not at least getting to a penalty shoot out, That’s normally the best bit.

stomach rumbling is it dear boy

England should come home early because they lack the quality to take them beyond the first round. Others are also catching up put it this way. 🙄

Cummon Costa Rica! 😆

Even past players admit it

Doesn’t stop it being a bullshit comment (and in a way, an insult to the losing team). It’s an unimaginative way of saying “I can’t quite put my finger on why we were worse on the day, so I’ll roll this cliché out.”

Quantify “want” and then we can debate it. If you can’t then, as I said, do give over carrying your petty jibes on from other threads into this one, and we’ll stick to the footie instead.

Apologies for my temporary “impertinence*.”

* a true STW classic that one. 🙂

*reads through last page of thread*

Gentlemen, please!

I hope that ref bought Costa Rica a drink before ****ing them, just now. Penalty all day long.

Edit: On the plus side….GOOOOOAALL!