Bloody hell. BoJo and I agree on something!!!

Really feel sick this morning reading of the increase attempts and vocabulary of Johnson and his crew to blame any Coronovirus related errors on the Scientists.  Now, perhaps they weren’t infallible but dealing with an unknown new Virus as it’s path unfolded rapidly with huge pressure to act on the “right” thing cannot be easy, but we all know the balance of activity was science vs economy, and the final decision lays with the ministers.

Now we’ll have clever people in the spotlight under the stress of blame and media examination no doubt forced to resign at best or face legal inquiry’s at worst instead of working in the sphere they
know so well for our mutual health.  A lot of them won’t want or won’t cope with this.

What a spineless, cowardly bunch of shits.

Agreed, no moral backbone whatsoever.

From the BBC interview story:

Again, he took a step towards acknowledging that there could have been mistakes, suggesting the lockdown timing was an “open question”, and that while the government had stuck “like glue” to the advice given by its scientists, maybe that advice had been wrong.

He’s 100% bending the narrative to deflect blame to the scientists.

The science suggested lockdown back at the beginning of March.
Other countries had followed that advice already.
Businesses were ahead of the government and sending staff home.
Parts of the UK population were already staying at home.
By the time they announced lockdown it had essentially already started.
They cocked up shutting the pubs.

You can look at almost every stage of their response to this and spot massive holes where they have gone against scientific advice. You just have to look at the farce that is the using of masks happening right now for an example. It’s been posted on the main virus thread already but it says it so much better than I ever could so it’s worth repeating here:

He’s 100% bending the narrative to deflect blame to the scientists.

The science suggested lockdown back at the beginning of March.
Other countries had followed that advice already.
Businesses were ahead of the government and sending staff home.
Parts of the UK population were already staying at home.
By the time they announced lockdown it had essentially already started.
They cocked up shutting the pubs.

Yes, it’s entirely cynical. The ‘we didn’t understand asymptomatic transmission’ bleating is utter bollocks. The evidence was out there from mid-January that it was likely.

He’s a lying little toerag.

The scientists (SAGE) were telling Cummings and his puppet PM to lockdown at least a week before they chose to do so, Boris is talking testicles… Again!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52764645

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-sage-urged-govt-to-lockdown-a-week-earlier-uks-chief-scientific-adviser-says-12029956

etc.

Throughout around 50 years of voting I’ve had varying degrees of satisfaction with our Prime Ministers and their associated governments. Some have seemed OK, others not so good. I’ve mainly agreed with some and positively disagreed with others but……

I’ve never held them in the absolute hatred and contempt that I do for Johnson and his cronies. I thought May was a disaster but Johnson/Cummings and the rest of the band are just beyond belief. Anyone who voted for him should be hanging their head in shame, much the same way anyone who voted for Trump.

I’ve never held them in the absolute hatred and contempt that I do for Johnson and his cronies. I thought May was a disaster but Johnson/Cummings and the rest of the band are just beyond belief. Anyone who voted for him should be hanging their head in shame, much the same way anyone who voted for Trump.

Same here, I can usually find something to agree with for each PM. May had her obvious flaws but at least she stuck to her guns, mostly understood what was going on and had a good idea of what she wanted to acheive. Boris only had one goal: to be the PM that successfully delivered Brexit. Once he got there he realised that it wasn’t a simple job, had much more responsibility to handle and that he’d massively underestimated the task. Ever since he’s been in hiding and has looked to Cummings for advice and in doing so had made Cummings the defacto PM.

Boris is a complete **** and if it wasn’t destroying the country at the very time we should be working together it would be comical. Normally we’re the ones looking in at another country as it falls apart and does the complete opposite of what it should do. This time we’re the one everyone else is laughing at. It is by pure luck that the US has looked at our efforts to self-destruct and yelled ‘Hold my beer…’ by voting in Trump!

It is by pure luck that the US has looked at our efforts to self-destruct and yelled ‘Hold my beer…’ by voting in Trump!

Is that the way it played? https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/new-evidence-emerges-of-steve-bannon-and-cambridge-analyticas-role-in-brexit

Conspiracy theory?

In the meantime, all the Honours are going to a majority conservative servitude. It’s so brash as to be in plain sight nowadays.  Won’t be long until we have Lord Cummings ruling the upper house.

It’s so brash as to be in plain sight nowadays

By far and away the most egregious has to be Claire Fox. She has in her time, defended the rights of paedophiles to download photos of children, a supporter of the IRAs use of violence, and has consistently believed in the abolition of the Lords… Funny how that last one goes away as soon as you’re elevated to sit there…

I think some of you are forgetting that Patrick Vallance is a qualified scientist, doctor and pharmacist and was part of the “natural herd immunity” scientists (I don’t have to link the Youtube again do I ?) for far too long. The early “science” was split in the UK and Boris chose the science he liked best. It was only when other scientists put numbers on the expected death rate and numbers being hospitalised that measures to prevent spread were seriously considered.

Patrick Vallance, a scientist, was very much part of the problem and I blame him as much as Boris for the fatal (for many) hesitation.

‘Measures to prevent a second nationwide lockdown, and any economic fallout, were discussed by Mr Johnson at what was described by sources as a “war game” session with Chancellor Rishi Sunak on Wednesday.’ The kids must have got bored with the science games.

“war game” session

I bet Cummings faps himself raw whenever he gets to attend one.

The ****.

We shan’t know whether the “herd immunity” approach was right or wrong until the whole thing is over. Those countries which locked down earliest and had few cases are now getting big flare-ups as people start going back to normal behaviour. The UK is seeing some increases but as many people seem to have antibodies we may find there is less of a queue for a ventilator.

We shan’t know whether the “herd immunity” approach was right or wrong until the whole thing is over. Those countries which locked down earliest and had few cases are now getting big flare-ups as people start going back to normal behaviour. The UK is seeing some increases but as many people seem to have antibodies we may find there is less of a queue for a ventilator.

we know what happens if you go back to “normal” with a prevalent virus, USA USA USA USA, none of the countries who locked down early are close to “Big Flare Ups” USA USA USA. How’s herd immunity going there BTW 60k new case’s yesterday that’s quite the herd.?

quick count of the numbers in the just the month of july the US has over 1.8 million new cases.

Those countries which locked down earliest and had few cases are now getting big flare-ups as people start going back to normal behaviour.

For example? I can’t think of a country with few cases that locked down early and has big flare ups now. A few manageable clusters maybe but big flare ups? Not many countries locked down early, New Zealand is one but you couldn’t say they have had big flare ups later as a result. In fact I think the opposite of what you say is true. Early lockdowns allowed shorter lock downs and less cases ever since compared with countries that had late lockdowns (UK) or very late lockdowns (Brazil)

Locking down early gives you options, flexibility and enables you to keep a much better track of the progress of the virus.

Plus there’s the fringe benefit that you kill less of your population.

Those countries which locked down earliest and had few cases are now getting big flare-ups as people start going back to normal behaviour. 

Those ‘flare-ups’ only appear ‘big’ in relative terms because those countries sorted their shit out early and have far less cases in the background.

Rule 1 when dealing with percentages – check the size of the underlying numbers.

Anyway, please get back to us with an example of a country that locked down early and is now suffering a big flare-up in absolute as well as relative terms.

So Boris isnt going to suspend the alleged rapey MP.

So Boris isnt going to suspend the alleged rapey MP.

I suppose that would rather help identify the individual. Of course whether you view that as a good or bad thing isn’t related to the actual decision.

“Alleged”

While there’s still doubt people shouldn’t be suspended. Short of being filmed raping somone on live TV the idea of innocent until proven guilty should apply.

Remember the BBC and Cliff Richard?

Pretty sure I’d be suspended from work if I was charged arrested for rape, rightly so.

You’ve just changed from “alleged” to “charged” and you’re a teacher reponsible for minors not an MP responsible for being rowdy on a green bench.

Yeah you are right arrested not charged slip of the keypad, I misstyped 😏

Although being a MP is a position of some responsibility and power I reckon they should be suspended, its not saying he’s guilty its just being able to do the right thing.

Remember Carl Sargeant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sargeant

or from another point of view:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eleanor_de_Freitas

High profile sex crime cases cause unreasonable levels of stress to accuser and accused. A teacher at Madame’s school was accused. Fortunately for the teacher there were other children who witnessed the alleged offense (lack of) which took place while kids were entering a class, but you wouldn’t believe the shit storm (well you would because you’re a teacher). The accuser came out of it badly and the teacher has become paranoid declining to go on school trips and practicing exagerated social distancing well before Covid. I reckon he’ll quit the profession before long he was so marked by the injustice of the situation.

All that because the allegations were made public by a member of the school hierarchy before investigation.

While there’s still doubt people shouldn’t be suspended.

No. Any member of my staff arrested for an abusive crime would be immediately suspended on full pay. It’s what any responsible employer would do. The alternative is to leave a potential abuser in a position of power and is the refuge of the apologist.

If I was arrested for a crime of much lower seriousness I would be suspended immediately.

this guy should be suspended immediately without a shadow of doubt or hesitation

Yep, I know of a person suspended on full pay at our gaff for allegedly bashing a copper on a night out scrap pre-covid. No Court date for obvious reasons but still suspended.

Arrested and charged or just arrested, TJ? You can be arrested and taken into custody and then charged or released. What happens if you get arrested then released without charge pending enquiries?

It smacks of guilty until proven innocent from where I’m sitting.

Not a nice position to be in if you are innocent:

Released Under Investigation

The name will leak soon.
Then we’re on for a tory hat-trick…elphicke, mr as yet un-named; who’s next?
Roll-up, roll-up all you naughty tories; get your name in the press.
So the alleged rapist just gets on with his life – tra la la; when his identity is made public will other accusers come forward?
If parliament was still sitting the use of parliamentary privilege would force the issue rapidly.

@binners that would be glorious.

Seeing that Penfold image and a bit of googling led me to Brian Moore the ex rugby players Twitter page.

He’s binners in disguise I swear.

https://mobile.twitter.com/brianmoore666?

From the Daily Mail Im affraid so no linky just the text copied……

The former rugby star waded into controversy last year after sending a rude two-word reply to Boris Johnson ahead the national rugby team’s defeat.

Jones told the Prime Minister to ‘f*** off’ after he wished Eddie Jones and his players well. He later replied to a tweet by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn with a similar message – ‘just for balance’.

Edukator

If I was arrested on such a serious matter then I would be suspended on full pay. My profession takes public protection seriously.

Edukator is right – naming the guy (I assume it’s a guy) won’t help bring justice.

Putting aside the debate on innocent until proven guilty, a media shit storm with the guys name up beside Elphicke could rightly be claimed by his lawyers as impacting a fair trial.

The main problem is how to manage any ongoing harm to the victim. I assume arrangements will be put in place to make sure there is no possible contact.

Even if you’re just excited about it being a tory, surely his name coming out later after the trial would better? More details, and not buried in the Elphicke fallout, Covid, summer holiday time? Keep the drip drip of bad news for Boris going.

naming the guy (I assume it’s a guy)

Only a male is suitably equipped for this particular crime.

You have a very limited definition of rape in your force, thegreatape. In France any unwanted perentration of the vagina, anus or mouth in a sexual context using any object by either sex is considered rape.

The main problem is how to manage any ongoing harm to the victim.

If the MP is suspended and his name made public the media speculation will start, every potential victim will be tracked and hassled by the media and the MP’s entourage – so much for victim protection.

Then if it goes to trial and the MP is aquitted which is highly likely given the successful prosecution rate in rape cases, where does the victim stand then? It’s a mess for the victims because in most cases they get raped and then see their agressors aquitted. And a mess for for those wrongly accused for whatever reason (I’m not suggesting all those aquitted were innocent because the level of proof required is higher can be provided in many cases).

The MP’s case is part of a wider debate of how the current system fails so many victims (and a few accused), even if they don’t end up in “a media shit storm”.

Not suspended….

So it’s looking odds-on that it is a Brexit Believer, then?

You could work it out if you could be arsed. Male, 50s, probably heterosexual, Brexiteer, the locations named suggest the office or London address of the MP.