Biden. Stay or go?

there are some right thick idiots in the USA.

That is not what was claimed, there was no mention of some right thick idiots. The suggestion was that the American electorate are not bright.

Would you accept “the Irish electorate are not very bright” or “the Pakistani electorate are not very bright”?

I strongly dislike political correctness/wokeness but I also intensely dislike bigotry. There is a long established attitude of bigotry towards Americans on STW which some people seem to believe is acceptable. I consider it to be hypocritical.

I don’t know if there there are any regular contributors posting from the United States on STW there certainly used to be several and I valued their contributions, but there doesn’t seem to be any these days, at least I am not aware of any who openly advertise the fact. Considering that STW is a fairly hostile and unsympathetic environment for our American friends it is hardly surprising.

AOC isn’t really the correct choice this time around, they already have the left leaning Democrats in the bag but the only chance they have of beating Trump is the middle

Well she clearly lacks experience if she has only been in office for five years (although Trump had never held an elected position when he became POTUS)

But there have been plenty of opinion polls in the past that Bernie Sanders was the best placed and strongest Democrat to defeat Trump, and it obviously wasn’t because he was seen as older and wiser!

I am not aware of any evidence that being a radical is a serious disadvantage in US politics currently, in fact I believe that the appeal of a radical, especially one alledgedly rejected by the establishment, goes to the very heart of Trump’s appeal.

Oh and I firmly believe that the election will be won not by turning marginal Trump voters. They are a lost cause – it’s like  an episode of the Walking Dead – The zombies just have to be worked around rather than recruited. No, sanity will prevail if a younger, sharper candidate can get every sane thinking person of voting age motivated enough (and with the right bits of paper) to go out and vote in the states that matter.

I suppose the usual problem with facing Trump will be how do you approach it – do you allow him to land blows on you with lies and silly nicknames or try to counter with the same. Or do you be the bigger person, act like an actual believable states person and hope enough of the electorate of all levels of age, intelligence, education and class appreciate that. I do wonder if Biden was too nice – maybe you need to spell out exactly what Trump is in more passionate terms. Not go toe to toe with the silly names but go full on with the truth about what he is in easy to follow language just about civil enough to be broadcastable. Basically call a **** a ****. Not to attempt to undermine him in the eyes of his supporters but to make sure the more passive part of the electorate who may or may not bother to vote do the right thing.

Again IDK how often the US runs opinion polls, but be interested to see movement in them now.

Polling methodologies change as the election gets closer. Pollsters will now be tending to quiz registered voters who are likely to vote, but that relies on a personal declaration which isn’t borne out by the official numbers

Voters can register a couple weeks before the election in some states and a month before in others, but some states will begin an early vote in either September or October

If nothing else the drama might get a few more people out to the voting booths

chewkw Free Member
This will be an interesting US election.

I am very tired of living in interesting times.

If they had stood-up Bernie Sanders or AOC, you would have seen the “Corbyn effect”, with people in the center third scared-away.

Sanders is a popular personality – but he’s not really a democrat. He aligns himself with the democrats because there isn’t another suitable party, but it’s just a flag of convenience. He’s not a unifying figure for the Democrats – he’s also older than Biden.

I am very tired of living in interesting times.

Exhausting, isn’t it?

But spare a thought for all those US truck owners who have to replace all their anti-Biden bumper stickers this morning.

Trump is raging because his whole campaign is aligned towards beating an old man, and nobody seems to have prepared for the possibility of a younger opponent.

Harris will really have to up her game to beat Trump.  She’s not the best candidate for the Democrats, but they can’t pass over the current VP who’s also black and female to go for one of the Governors or cabinet members who’re probably stronger when facing Trump.  They’re backed into a corner.  Still!

I suppose the usual problem with facing Trump will be how do you approach it – do you allow him to land blows on you with lies and silly nicknames or try to counter with the same.

I was pondering this exact question this morning over a brew. The problem for me is that all the name calling just makes you look an utter dick.

And it’s the old ad hominem/lost the argument situation.

For me it’s a massive turn off. I want to hear potential solutions and a vision for the future. I can’t be unusual in that

I don’t believe there’s an untapped pool of potential trump voters out there, he’s got to be pretty much at peak, I mean are we really saying there’s undecideds still? After the last 8 years of his shitposting?

Like convert I think it’s about rallying the anti trump vote, that’s where the numbers are. Trump has in a swoop lost his main attack, that biden is too old and feeble. He basically has to start again

Reports in German media that Biden’s team blames Obama as some kind of puppet master in removing him.

he/she was pointing out that there are some right thick idiots in the USA.

14% of people that bothered to show up for UK elections voted for Nigel Farage’s party. The Brits are thick as mince.

The question on everyones lips is ‘what would an overly-verbose rapey grifter think, when trying to re-invent himself as some type of American political commentator’?

What a ****!

There’s nothing quite like a man stood accused of multiple sexual assaults moralising over Biden stepping down from the presidential race in defence of Donald Trump, a man who’s plastered all over the Epstein Files

Russell Brand… never knowingly right pic.twitter.com/0KcKZ48lD9

— Stuzi ?? (@stuzi_pants) July 22, 2024

“The general public” are **** ing dense, regardless of race or nationality.

Unfortunately, populists like trump and Farrage have learned how to weaponise our collective stupidity for their own ends.

Is Russell Brand deliberately filming himself waffling nonsense in a park supposed to be some sort of self-deprecating joke?

“there are some right thick idiots in the USA.”
“ That is not what was claimed, there was no mention of some right thick idiots. The suggestion was that the American electorate are not bright.”

Either way, there is no racism in that at all, so why even say its ‘casual racism?’. And it is quite clear that the meaning was that just some of them are not bright, as we all clearly know there are some very clever people in the USA.

“The general public” are **** ing dense, regardless of race or nationality.

Unfortunately, populists like trump and Farrage have learned how to weaponise our collective stupidity for their own ends.

Sadly this is mostly where I’m at too. It’s democracy’s achilles heel. Something has happened though – society has given up trying. It’s almost proud to be shit. It’s the whole “the people of this country have had enough of experts” personified. There is no shame in being unable to follow an argument. A lot of society expects very little of it’s self anymore. If it’s a bit too hard to do or a bit to hard to follow why not just give the **** up?:The Homer Simpson philosophy on living a good life. They eat fast food and vote populist. Trump/Farage are the MSG of politics and too many people don’t just guzzle it up but proudly display a bumper sticker proclaiming they do.

Is Russell Brand deliberately filming himself waffling nonsense in a park supposed to be some sort of self-deprecating joke?

Ernesto – since being exposed as a rapey gifter in this country, Brand has followed the time-honoured route of claiming to have been ‘saved’ by discovering god, and now spends his time as a Trump cheerleader and peddling ‘deep state’ conspiracy theories to tinfoil-helmeted Americans via YouTube.

I’m sure its very lucrative for him

Reports in German media that Biden’s team blames Obama as some kind of puppet master in removing him.

Obama was reported to have leaked that he had been telling Biden to pull out, having been ignored when he’d said it privately.

Harris will really have to up her game to beat Trump.

I wonder if it’s more about damage limitation at this point, or at least trying something when its obvious that you’re going to lose badly.

Seems that Harris is being written off by a lot already, but she polls better than Biden & beats Trump in a few weve had so far, Trump was only leading Biden by 4% on average, be interesting to see what the polls over the next week look like.

Im pretty sure most republicans would very much like Biden to have kept running, now all those age related attacks swing back on Trump.

Biden shouldve stepped down a while ago, but theres just about enough time to get Harris in position, when are the next debates supposed to be?

Interesting times ahead

I wouldn’t write her off, and one of her advantages is just how obviously race-baity and misogynistic the Republican campaign will be. They have nothing else.

There is no hope for the Republican base voters, they will lap it up, but my only hope is that swing voters will come to their senses and recoil when presented with such a campaign of such inescapable ugliness and bigotry.

I guess we will find out just how how lost America is at this point.

Actually thinking about it I expect that the Republicans will keep focusing on Biden- his age making him unsuitable to be sitting presdient and his late decision to drop out as well as Harris being involved in any cover-up of his age related issues, although double edged sword really because Trump is also old & mad!

And  her VP pick will be interesting

but my only hope is that swing voters will come to their senses and recoil when presented with such a campaign of such inescapable ugliness and bigotry.

I once though something along those lines many years ago

I don’t share your optimism

Michael Moore has an interesting take on it. 

Jesus, is he still relevant? Maybe we should ask Zack De la Rocha for his thoughts too.

I once though something along those lines many years ago

He really is an unbelievably abhorrent ****.

 a campaign of such inescapable ugliness and bigotry.

I’m expecting inescapable bigliness to be honest

On the far right chat-boards it looks like the old birther conspiracy has been resurrected.

Michael Moore has an interesting take on it.

Kamala Harris will be in a much stronger position to win if she can run as the President of the United States. As the incumbent President. 

It hadn’t crossed my mind before, and I’ve only considered it for the 30 seconds since I read it… but he has a point.

On the far right chat-boards it looks like the old birther conspiracy has been resurrected.

Which has to be good news. Once you just take as a given that the MAGA lot are lost, the uglier they look the better.

It hadn’t crossed my mind before, and I’ve only considered it for the 30 seconds since I read it… but he has a point

Same here. Unless I am missing something it would be a genius move. On the condition that she doesn’t screw up as POTUS obviously

Edit: Presumably she could still run for two full terms?

On the far right chat-boards it looks like the old birther conspiracy has been resurrected.

Brilliant news. It was a total failure in stopping Obama getting elected so hopefully 16 years later (!) it will be just as effective.

Edit: Presumably she could still run for two full terms?

Was just thinking the same – presumably if she were to become acting president, …

Sadly this is mostly where I’m at too. It’s democracy’s achilles heel. Something has happened though – society has given up trying.

Well it’s not really by accident. Putin has put then best part of a quarter of a centuries work in to global disinformation campaigns and he’s not going to persist in doing that if there were no significant outcomes. His whole goal is that nobody would know what is true anymore, the result of which has been that a lot of people don’t even really care whats true anymore. That not to say that the people are stupid, people can only really ‘know’ what is presented to them as information. The outcome, collectively is ‘stupidity’ but thats a situation that has been deliberately crafted and we should really focus on the perpetrators rather than the victims.

It’s all Putin’s fault?

maccruiskeen – I’m going to make an assumption here…. if you were able to vote in America, you wouldn’t have voted Trump would you? And I’m guessing you didn’t vote for Farage’s party either? If not why not? What has made you immune in your opinion? I mean if you live in the same world that Putin has distorted so no one knows truth from lies, how come you do still?

martinhutch Full Member
I wouldn’t write her off, and one of her advantages is just how obviously race-baity and misogynistic the Republican campaign will be. They have nothing else.

I think I read something last week that at the RNC there was a lot of Harris-bashing that centred on pinning the blame for the problems (real or otherwise) at the southern border on her, in case she ended up being the Democrat’s candidate.

I think that immigration was part of her brief as vice president, which some seem to have considered a way to kick an intractable problem into the long grass while the president concentrated on things that could be fixed more easily. I don’t know the truth of that though, but I think that many people like me who follow US politics to an extent but not closely would say she’s not made much impact over the course of Biden’s presidency.

Edit: Presumably she could still run for two full terms?

Yes, you can only be elected twice. Obama could stand as vice president for example and become president for a third time should the president stand down for any reason

but my only hope is that swing voters will come to their senses and recoil when presented with such a campaign of such inescapable ugliness and bigotry.

I’m sorry to inform you, they love it. They’re all on board. Its the same here too.

Ive just doom scrolled past an old photo of WW1 soldiers off to Ypres on facebook, and the comments section is FULL to the brim of Margrets and Grahams:

“everything they fought for gone to waste, are[sic] country is a wreck, its all because of brown people”

People are appalling.

I’d like to see a debate between Harris and Trump. I’d put money on an ex-lawyer against a racist, sexist grifter. Might open some eyes on the consequences of inaction.

In fact, I think Trump would avoid that debate at all costs.

maccruiskeen – I’m going to make an assumption here…. if you were able to vote in America, you wouldn’t have voted Trump would you? And I’m guessing you didn’t vote for Farage’s party either? If not why not? What has made you immune in your opinion?

Something doesn’t need to 100% effective to be effective – especially if division and polarisation in the goal. I also wouldn’t presume that I’m immune. It’s more likely the case I’m just not presently the target. And If I was I probably wouldn’t be aware I was.