Biden. Stay or go?

Biden has to go. His job from Day 1 should have been to create a platform for a new generation of Democratic leaders, and Harris in particular, to compete and win against a chaotic and corrupt Republican Party. He has totally failed to do that. Harris wasn’t a great performer as VP but he also has not given her room to grow.

Biden has persevered through personal tragedy (his wife and child being killed, another son dying of cancer, another son in addiction and crime) by throwing himself ever harder into work. And so far it has paid off. But he cannot and should not pull this last trick off.

There is still time for the Dems to nominate an ass-kicking, public-connecting candidate at the convention.

Run with Harris and Gavin Newsom.

I like them individually but 2 Californians? No way.

Michelle Obama would be a terrible idea. She has never been elected and has no platform. She is very smart but she’s not going to win over anyone that’s not already a D. And it would be better for US politics to move away from political dynasties…Kennedy, Bush, Clinton, Obama…

Feels like the choice is between two poor options.

1. He stays in post and loses (definitely)
2. Messy replacement process and new candidate has a very slim chance of taking it…

The constant commentary about means they really have to go with 2, soon, and then really nail trump’s mental decline.

Lots of respect for Biden, but I fear he’s at a point that he’s no longer able to make a coherent decision.

There is the 25th amendment (was discussed while trump was president) don’t know if that’s in discussion for Biden.

https://www.history.com/news/presidents-ill-25-amendment

The problem is not so much Biden, but the fact that Harris is a dud electorally. It’s a fundamentally flawed ticket, and Biden should have had the sense, as a man in his 80s, to advance a vp who could not just step in if he was incapacitated during his term, but be high-profile enough to build support throughout that period.

Biden is a good man who is old and frail. Trump is an old, frail, rapist felon who tried to overthrow the government, was bezzie mates with the most high profile sexual abuser in recent history, is facing charges under the espionage act, and has promised a presidency of revenge against his enemies.

I’m pretty disappointed in the display of arrogance and egotism from Joe Biden and his close advisers.
They’re willing to risk the chaos of a Trump win because they refuse to do the right thing and have him step aside.
Many would be Democrat voters will abstain if Biden is on the ticket, allowing Trump to win.
Piss poor politics.

It’s amazing if people vote for “The President” and not the party they want to lead the country. Imagine being American and having to choose, surely you’d go by the politics of the Democrats and just hope Biden gets replaced sometime into his tenure.

The whole point of having separation of powers and separate elections for the executive is to ensure that it is not just an extension of the dominant parliamentary party.

There was originally no need for a President to even be a member of a party and IIRC there was an early tradition of the runner up in the Presidential election being appointed as VP by the victor. Admittedly those are probably obsolete and unrecoverable now

If Biden was my elderly neighbour I wouldn’t ask him to look after my cats . I would think it was too much to ask an elderly neighbour.

They’re willing to risk the chaos of a Trump win because they refuse to do the right thing and have him step aside.

I’ll bet a shiny penny that their thinking is the opposite, that only Biden can beat Trump at this point and that stepping aside would let Trump in.

given his latest gaff which world leader do you think will be the accidental recepient of this?

Valid point!  He’d need to refer to his targets with pictures, not names!

I just do not understand why he does not go.  What is his reasoning?  Just feels wierd to me.

Problem is that the polling all this time has shown Biden is preferred to all the other options, and it’s too late to swap him out now

for the US media to be banging on about Biden’s age when DJT is as old and even worse physical and mental shape is is hypocritical

Problem is that the polling all this time has shown Biden is preferred to all the other options, and it’s too late to swap him out now

I think you need to check the most recent polling.

And no, it’s definitely not too late.

for the US media to be banging on about Biden’s age when DJT is as old and even worse physical and mental shape is is hypocritical

The difference is during the debate Trump met expectations.  It’s difficult to tell if there’s any decline because there was so little of substance there to begin with.

Biden fell far short of expectations to the point that he is simply no longer able to mount a campaign.  His unscripted press conference yesterday did little to help.

even worse physical and mental shape is is hypocritical

I’m not sure this is actually true. Trump should be in worse physical state given his diet and being a fat ****, but I reckon if they’d played that golf match, Trump would cope with it better.

Mentally – not sure. Trump has always rambled total bollocks. Biden was a different league. It’s the decline that’s the worry. It sounds like apart from the unforgivable gaffs last night (I mean if you were going to get two names wrong all night those would be the two you’d really really not want to **** up) he was actually pretty good. Better than Trump would even have been.

Given the rate of decline – can you imagine what he’ll be like on Jan 5th 2029 in what would be in theory his last day in power should be be reelected?

If Trump gets reelected, he needs to stay away from theaters and open topped vehicles.

Get him some Werther’s originals and a nice cup of tea.

In the US you can’t be a Commercial pilot after the age of 65. Yet it’s perfectly OK to have the nuclear codes

Go figure..

If the Whitehouse is being converted into an old peoples home then he should stay.

Where is Obama?

Bidens got to go otherwise Trump is in, and we are all in for a scary time

Where is Obama?

Can’t go for a third term.

I think you need to check the most recent polling.

And no, it’s definitely not too late.

The trouble is it’s swing from

Anyone but Biden could beat Trump

To Biden is the best chance of loosing but only by a bit.

Unless there’s even more recent polling it just seems to point to them having left this far too late.

There’s also the problem of convincing someone at the apex of their political career to actually stand in a race they have a very real chance of loosing.  Picture it, you’re the governor of a blue state, people are talking about you as the next democratic president, do you a) ruin that by loosing to Trump and end up spending 4 years as the butt of Trumps insults , or b) wait it out until 2028 and actually become president (unless Trump isn’t a disaster domestically in which case DeSantis will probably win).

What is his reasoning?

Likely because he’d be a one term president. Generally viewed as a huge negative. Bush Sr took flack for being a one term president. It’s basically pure ego. I’m more confused by who is enabling him. Is he so surrounded by grifting sycophants telling the emperor that his new clothes look fantastic?

And no, it’s definitely not too late.

It is, as Nevada will not allow a replacement candidate on the ballot (it’s in the state rules). So that’s a minus 6 on the Electoral College votes before things begin.

…if you can’t imagine your president being capable in four years time…

Not my president,  but honestly can’t imagine the old coffin dodger being alive in 4 years time.

 Nevada will not allow a replacement candidate on the ballot

But he’s not yet the official democrat candidate is he?  They haven’t had the convention to formalise it….or have they?

As I understand it, tho Biden has overwhelmingly got enough delegates to be nominated at the convention, if he stands aside now, those delegates could then vote for anyone else

Unless there’s even more recent polling it just seems to point to them having left this far too late.

Figuring out how to ask this question is difficult, but at the moment there are several candidates who are polling at least as well as Biden or slightly better.  None of whom are ‘The Candidate’ and many of whom don’t have good recognition nationally.

Biden’s numbers are not going to improve.  He might have good days and bad days but the good days do not bring people back to supporting him and every bad day he losses more and more votes.

Putting another candidate front and centre at least gives them a chance to gain support.

Basically with Biden there is no chance.  With someone else there is at least a chance.

I know the yanks roll their eyes when a brit says there is more to consider than the US in a US election, but that doesn’t stop it being true.

IMO Biden cannot win. The Democrats’ only option is to ditch him for a younger, sparkier nominee, then go all out on Trump’s obvious mental unsuitability for (re)election.

If Trump wins, Ukraine is a goner. Europe as a whole will be way less up for a fight without Uncle Sam in the dugout behind us. You can forget Palestine as anything other than a wasteland with people living in holes in the ground for 5 years as well.

Putin’s investments do seem to payout in the end, you have to hand it to him…

(don’t worry I’m only in charge of the stationary cupboard)

And that’s not going anywhere…

Clooney should put his money where his mouth is and stand for election.

Tbf I don’t think he was suggesting it should be him.

given his latest gaff which world leader do you think will be the accidental recepient of this?

There’s a certain Brazilian journeyman goalie who isn’t sleeping well at night

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_(footballer)

Tbf I don’t think he was suggesting it should be him.

Tell you what though – in the new twisted world, there are worse suggestions. Housewives vote (and a bit of bro crush) might get him over the line. Whoever it is needs to have instant appeal – no time for the public to get to know them. So a celeb might sadly be what’s needed.

I guess you just have to find who would work in the only 6 states that actually matter.

Can’t go for a third term.

There is a sort of workaround

The 22nd Amendment only requires that someone not be elected to the Presidency more than twice. Someone who was elected to two terms on his own is still eligible to be Vice President and to rise to the Presidency upon the death, resignation or removal of the President.

So Obama could stand for Vice President with everyone openly knowing that Biden will resign on day 1

There’s a checklist called The Keys To The Whitehouse, developed by US historian Allan Lichtman. Using it he’s successfully predicted most presidents since 1984, including Donald Trump in 2016 despite polls saying that Hillary couldn’t lose

Prof. Lichtman says “that it is governance, not campaigning, that determines who will win a presidential election”. I hope that the electorate see it that way too because Lichtman, who is a Democrat, is currently backing Joe Biden although he hasn’t made a final prediction

Have a run through them and see what you think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House

Maybe it’ll just have to be accepted that Trump gets his second and final term then is gone. Not something I relish though.

Tell you what though – in the new twisted world, there are worse suggestions.

I’d put money on cloony having a fairly decent shout against Trump. Sure he doesn’t have any political exp (but neither did Trump), but he’s famous, good looking, appeals to the female vote, fairly articulate, zero skeltons in the closet that im aware of, and by all counts makes a decent cup of coffee

I imagine he’d be able to tear Trump a new one in any debate, purely by pointing out that the orange fool is a lying, senile, criminal degenerate. The actual political stuff (ie how to run a country) he can be briefed on by his advisers. He’ll be able to deliver a good line on the debate stage at least

Is Terry Crews Dem or Rep?

When Biden ran against Trump, I groaned and wished that the Democrats had someone younger. But they didn’t. Biden had been successful as a centrist politician for decades and had the support of Black voters. He was the best candidate to take on Trump, regardless of what the fringe left said. However, I hoped that he would commit to only serving one term and retiring.

Problem is, he didn’t. Nobody who spent decades in politics and then made it to the White House would do that, it’s human nature. He has been a very successful president as far as getting liberal policy enacted in face of a hostile Congress and unsympathetic Supreme Court. So, he’s not going to quit and trying to force him to quit would be catastrophic. The debate debacle hasn’t caused his poll numbers to tank (most people don’t watch debates and most voters have already made up their minds).

https://x.com/DomenicoNPR/status/1811689720805552274

So, no, he’s not going to quit and Trump is a much worse choice in every way (FFS, electrocution or sharks???). So, time to move on and just get behind electing Biden. Like it or not, he’s going to be the candidate, he’s not going to quit and trying to force him out will just hand the election to Trump.

Given the fact that the Supreme Court just ruled that presidents have immunity from crime when in office. I don’t understand why Biden hasn’t arranged for Trump to meet with a terrible accident. Job jobbed, he can then retire, and the rest of the world can thank him. The Republicans can come to their senses and get things back to some sort of normality.

Honestly, as a plan; I can’t see any downsides.

Trump gets his second and final term then is gone

Well this is the thing isn’t it. He’s yet to leave office peacefully.

If Trump wins, he’ll find a way to stay past 5 years this time. With the courts backing him. And there’s always his daughter waiting in the wings…

Did you see him presenting his youngest son to the rally crowd the other day? He wants to keep the grift going into the next generation (and Jr and Eric are obviously hopeless).

Given the fact that the Supreme Court just ruled that presidents have immunity from crime when in office.

Scary

If Trump wins, he’ll find a way to stay past 5 years this time.

Do they hold elections during wartime ?

The debate debacle hasn’t caused his poll numbers to tank (most people don’t watch debates and most voters have already made up their minds)

The point in having such an early debate was to have a strong performance and turn his lacklustre numbers around.  Remember that Trump can be behind and still win (so being level is basically a guaranteed win).

The other reason to have an early debate was to give them plenty of time to hit the eject button if he had a shocker.

He had a shocker and yet people are still not sure how to find the eject button.

Does anyone genuinely believe he can win?  If so, what do you think is going to change in the next 4 months that is going to turn the race around?