BBC – Questiontime

the only immigrants i encounter are hardworking likeable people who seem quite happy to put as much in as they get from this country

Agree, some immigration has been good for the country.

I was close Muddy! Not bad 😀

Girlfrend is working on a Neolithic burial at the moment where the skelie is covered in cut marks. It seems they could have de fleshed him before burial.
And they say knife crime is a new thing.

Vote Guido.

Immigration – my main gripe is the tosh that the right wing press say about it. "soft touch britain?" and all that.

We need the immigrants to do the jobs because of our aging poulation and lack of skills in certain areas – without immigration healthcare would collapse due to shortage of staff.

Very hard to get a debate about it without it getting heated and racist however.

but what is the problem, explain it to me…..

Well it's not exactly a small subject which can be simply piggybacked into another thread …….. but let's just say that New Labour's 'open-door policy' of allowing an uncontrolled numbers of East Europeans to flood into Britain was probably not a very good idea.

Also if the celts 'arrived' who was here before..?

The beaker people.

Guido – couple of female friends are archeologists. seems like a really interesting career, wish i'd gone to uni now!

Some of the ancient remains are fascinating, like the Red Lady of Paviland,(not female i know) why the red dye i wonder?

We need the immigrants to do the jobs because of our aging poulation and lack of skills in certain areas – without immigration healthcare would collapse due to shortage of staff.

Spot on.

Well it's not exactly a small subject which can be simply piggybacked into another thread …….. but let's just say that New Labour's 'open-door policy' of allowing an uncontrolled numbers of East Europeans to flood into Britain was probably not a very good idea.

Immigrants are required to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to. This happens the world over, but the one of the answers as to why some of the population already here doesn't want to do the those jobs is down to wages. Business loves immigration, especially if they work for less than those already here.

Beaker people/Halstadt culture, La Terne (sp?)
Maybe waves of settlers, maybe a cultural 'wave'?

From what little i've read opinion now seems to sit with the idea that the Beaker culture came with a relatively few incomers and spread to the native population, only really conjecture though.

Griffin's ideology regarding who the English are is so far off base it's hilarious. No doubt his website will tell us how the heroic English resisted the Roman invaders under Boudicca….

Ernie – not sure the Government had a lot of option – most of them have been great and many will go home again after saving some money or getting disillusioned – many have already.

some are an utter pain tho.

I do wonder how Poland is coping with the loss of so many of it young workforce. I believe its only a temporary issue that one tho

Cuckoo- bit of a large gap between the beakers and the 'Celts' 😀
The point is they were the same people. They just had diffrent ways of producing culture (pottery, house styles etc) Sometime the influence to change was external sometimes internal.
Now the man Nick Griffin seems to concentrate on the Anglo saxons – but if we removed all non anglo saxons there would be about four people left. I suspect Boris may be one of them.

Muddy- Trust me as a job it sucks and you lose interest. Imagine wanting to fix your bike and ride after working in a bike shop all day?

Vote Guido

I still would like to know the BNP position on the Normans. They never mention them do they?

Er, i'm about to start training as a cycle instructor so i hope it doesn't suck that bad! 😆

Griffin is an idiot but will his appearance really have hurt him tonight?

I'v already read posts on another forum saying how well he did considering he was 'ganged up on'.
Rather ironic when you think of how his party members attempt to change peoples political ideas…

Normans – what did they ever do for us?

Apart from the legal system etc…..

Immigrants are required to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to.

That wasn't the thinking behind New Labour's open door policy. For a start, if immigrants are allowed in "to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to" why would you not want to control the numbers ? Saying that 50,000 or 1 million can come in, suggests that you are not really bothered about whether there are jobs for them.

And why can't British youngsters be trained for jobs which skilled foreign workers are now doing filling ? Youth unemployment is at about 1 million……why would British employers bother training kids when they can simply employ skilled foreign workers. And please don't say that British kids don't want to work.

And I could go on……. but the truth is that New Labour instigated it's open door policy because they wanted keep wages down and they decided to cynically exploit poor foreign workers who were desperate for work.

given were on page 5 i realise what i write is wasted.

NG got everyone else to concentrate on skin colour while he addressed the wants/needs of uk voters irrespective of colour.(sharia law, war, immimgration, soft mediacentric politics)

then very much anti homosexual tory muslim gets away without comment?!

NG is one of the few QT panellists ive ever seen who is not afraid to say what he thinks, regardless of who that offends – that will attract followers

the bnp plant, the stupid muslim asking about what the head of the christian sect thought(deport him somewhere now please), the one claiming all immigrants are supremely qualified (check my grans care home and all the obvioulsy dodgy nurse certificates) and the lesbian who thought she was disagreeing with NG, but wasnt……..

i want my 60mins back.

but to reply to TJ when i started watching…. dont get bogged down in history, it may serve as a lesson but if you spend too long looking at it you miss what is really happening.

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Coyote – Member
Who really gives a f***?

I do. Millions of right minded people do. The vast, overwhelming majority of this country do.

I give a f*** that such an odious individual and such an odious political organisation has gained even the tiniest foothold of political power. I give a f*** that we find every opportunity to decry everything that they say and to stop them having the slightest chance of gaining any more political influence.

This must be done by peaceful, deomcratic means. It must not be violent, it must be reasoned and measured, but it must be done.

Posted 2 hours ago

Flashheart – I've just received an email from RB. It says :

"I'd like you to tell Capn' Flashfart that I agree with him 100% on this.

100%. And that I'll buy him a pint.

That's possibly the best thing he's ever said on STW. Respect to him."

cynically exploit poor foreign workers who were desperate for work.

I don't think all immigrant workers are neccessarily poor, desperate or exploited.

If I could go to another country in Europe and earn four times what I earn here for the same work, while also benefitting from a better standard of living then I'd be pretty tempted and I wouldn't be any of those things.

See also our ex-pats in various other countries doing exactly that.

Ernie – was it "new labours open door policy" – or is it the freedom of workers to move under EC legislation?

I don't see that the government had much option. I don't see how numbers could be reduced without leaving the EC. We would then have to have returned all our emigrants to other EC counties – of which there are a lot – mainly unproductive retired types.

I do wonder if you have fallen short of your usual well informed standards on this one.

Dunno – its a complex one and the arguments can be stated in many ways.

Edit – many of the ones I know are actually rather disillusioned in that while they earn far more than at home they did not account for how much things cost here and are heading home again asap.

As for the point about bogus nursing certificates – thats just humbug. You ma have come across poor nurses but their certification is very well checked. More likely theya re working 60+ hr weeks and are too knackered to care anymore

That wasn't the thinking behind New Labour's open door policy. For a start, if immigrants are allowed in "to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to" why would you not want to control the numbers ? Saying that 50,000 or 1 million can come in, suggests that you are not really bothered about if there are jobs for them.

While you are right on Labour not controlling the numbers, We had a housing boom and there simply weren't the "right people" around to build them for the price and I refer to the right people being cheap.

And why can't British youngsters be trained for jobs which skilled foreign workers are now doing filling ? Youth unemployment is at about 1 million……why would British employers bother training kids when they can simply employ skilled foreign workers. And please don't say that British kids don't want to work.

You've answered your own question there. Why pay to train people when you can import them or export their jobs elsewhere? And I will say some British kids don't want to work and that's simply because of sh*t wages.

And I could go on……. but the truth is that New Labour instigated it's open door policy because they wanted keep wages down and they decided to cynically exploit poor foreign workers who were desperate for work.

Here's what I said earlier:

Business loves immigration, especially if they work for less than those already here.

Business have had Governments in their pocket since year dot.

We had a housing boom and there simply weren't the "right people" around to build them for the price and I refer to the right people being cheap

you might have thought it was a housing boom, but if it was…..

NG is one of the few QT panellists ive ever seen who is not afraid to say what he thinks

To me, he seemed absolutely terrified of saying what he thought.

That is precisely why Richard Dimbleby had to read out Griffin's previous quotes…….because there was no way that Griffin was prepared to repeat them in front of a live audience.

For example, he squirmed and did everything he possibly could, to avoid explaining why he had denied that the Holocaust had ever occurred.

So I have conclude SOOBalias, that your claim that he wasn't afraid to say what he thinks, is a wind-up……right ?

sorry ernie, your narrow mindedly wrong and not for the first time on this issue.

yes he was made to squirm
no he does not change his views, try to avoid expressing the illegal ones – yes, try to avoid the more popularly described 'disgusting' ones – but then i saw all others excepting the pointless, non political yank do the same. Come to think of it thats the exact same standpoint held by the voted party.

perhaps to provide political balance next week QT will gang **** the green party?

I don't see that the government had much option.

Yes they did. And that point was covered on QT.

you might have thought it was a housing boom, but if it was…..

Well, what?

sorry can you not re-read the remainder of your own sentence?

heres a clue love. its the clash between 'boom' and 'cheap'

I suppose i shouldnt be surprised that two such shrewd political comentators havnt got a single bike related post in the front page of their historys.

sorry ernie, your narrow mindedly wrong and not for the first time on this issue.

No, I am being very broad-minded, I saw the programme and I'm basing what I am saying on what I (and millions of others) saw. And this issue has never been raised before btw.

Griffin refused to repeat in front of a live audience what he had previously said, several people had to remind him of what he had said. He was clearly scared.

And he wasn't 'trying to avoid expressing the illegal ones' as you claim. It was made very clear to him that he could deny that the Holocaust had occurred, if he so wished – he was told that it was not illegal to do so in Britain. But he obviously realised that it would be a PR disaster to do so.

Did you actually watch the programme ? 😕

heres a clue love. its the clash between 'boom' and 'cheap'

So there was a boom in housing construction and it required cheap labour to build it, that was my point. Anytime you get near your point, make it.

Have you been checking up on me you naughty Internet stalker you.

I'm quite happy with the outcome of last night – it proves 100% the point that sunlight is the best disinfectant!

Hopefully all the people outside the building, violently protesting and singing songs about burning him (incitement?…) complaining against the BBC allowing him the freedom of speech (that to me is still sacrosant, a la voltaitre) are now hopefully eating humble pie, as he made himself like like a complete and utter cock in front of millions and millions of people.

The only drawback, is that most of the people likely to vote for him are unlikely to have watched the program, they'll be far more interested in the X factor….now, theres an idea 😀

The only drawback, is that most of the people likely to vote for him are unlikely to have watched the program, they'll be far more interested in the X factor….now, theres an idea

It would appear not, an individual with some degree of ethnicticity (have I invented a new word there?) has won for the last three years. Leona Lewis (who would get it), Leon Jackson (who wouldn't), and Alexandra Burke (who would also get it – seen her legs on that new video of hers? Like two well cooked sausages!)

I'm glad they ripped into him!

Ernie, re this one;

Flashheart – I've just received an email from RB.

Do send my regards to the grubby little urchin! I'll collect my pint at a London beer sometime!

That joke of a programme last night had as much to do with political debate as my last shite. If that, Straw et al, is the pinnacle of our political talent then no wonder the country is ****.

I put it to you all that the only reason that these parties are emerging is down to the disastrous efforts of our current mainstream politicians.

Goan

What I keep saying +1

Political vacuums (like Jack Straw and the Labia Party) lead to nonces like the BNP filling the 'void' We need strong charismatic, spirited leaders. Not the wheezing buffoons we currently have!

They really are worse than Thatchers lot – and guess what instead of destroying the NUM they wish to destroy the Post Office Union instead. In my eyes they are worse than Thatcher ever was, you knew she was a cow (said as much on the tin) but the labour party masquerading as some sort of saviour of the common working man = tosh!!!! Nasty, nasty people the lot of them.

Great to see that little racist git Griffin squirm – no place in a free and fair society. Agree with the above we need immigrants as we also need proper controls in place.

Immigration – my main gripe is the tosh that the right wing press say about it

There's just as much left wing tosh written surely. I think it's generally agreed that too much immigration would be just as bad as too little. The question (apart from extremists on both sides ie "let everyone come" and "ban them all") is more to do with what is the correct level.

If our health service is benefiting from doctors and nurses trained abroad, them other countries are losing out.

Well it's not exactly a small subject which can be simply piggybacked into another thread …….. but let's just say that New Labour's 'open-door policy' of allowing an uncontrolled numbers of East Europeans to flood into Britain was probably not a very good idea.

That wasn't the thinking behind New Labour's open door policy. For a start, if immigrants are allowed in "to do all the jobs the incumbent population don't want to" why would you not want to control the numbers ? Saying that 50,000 or 1 million can come in, suggests that you are not really bothered about whether there are jobs for them.

Ernie, can you stop talking about 'Labour's open door policy', people will start to believe you. It's the same tactic that Nick Griffin uses – keep talking b*ll*cks and eventually some people who can't be bothered to think for themselves will start to think it's true.

We've had lots of Eastern European immigrants coming here because their countries joined the EU – You might think that we shouldn't be in the EU (different argument), but that's not an idea that has been advanced by Labour or Tory (which between them do represent the vast majority of voters) over the last several Governments.

But incidentally, now that we have an economic downturn, lots of eastern Europeans are going home again.

And also BTW, it's the same rule that lets lots of Brits go and live and work abroad in Europe.

I only saw a bit of it and I must admit I was a little disappointed but not wholly surprised. I thnk everyone knows that the BNP is a nasty small minded organisation so why did the panel and audience just concentrate on this? Lazy I suppose. I would have preferred their other policies, or lack of them, to be concentrated on showing them to be the single issue party that they are. As for saying Jack Straw played a blinder, it's pretty easy to kick the fat kid when the entire school is cheering you on. Having said that, I don't think that Griffin came out of it well at all. He came across as a bit of a slimy question dodging turd to me.

I thought Jack Straw was shockingly poor at debating most of the issues, he'd ramble on for 5 minutes then say a couple of rabble-rousing words at the end to get the audience to clap.

I think the whole program was a waste of time (or at least an opportunity), Griffin got let off far too lightly on some issues raised and contradictions he made. A lot of good questions got passed over to 'wait until later' and never happened and the whole thing was just too unstructured (I rarely watch QT but it's never normally that poorly formatted!).

on a lighter note, Nick Griffin's face is too small for his head. Probably the results of sustained interbreeding.

Coyote sums up my views pretty well. Plus I was pretty disappointed how much the BBC milked the program beforehand.