Bad skills course session review

Well who has one then?

It rained on mine.

Ha..reason for asking is that obviously the reviews on their websites are glowing references. Someone somewhere ‘must’ have had inadequate time of it.

Im looking for another session and it would be good to see reviews saying “wish I would of choosen something more advanced” etc. That would help me decide what I need.

I pringled a front wheel on mine and my car battery did expensively fail the morning after.

Oh, if only GW were here….

what happened to GW then?
Top rider, remember having a great day riding up at inners with him and Househusband a few years back 8)

Iirc he basically said that all the, different, ones he’d been on were shit, because the instructor though he knew more than the folk being taught and that he should have been open to learning things from his pupils.

I’ve done a few now and not been wowed yet. They’ve all been good days out but I’ve never come away feeling my riding has moved on much. I think the problem is I set expectations too high having read many times on here how people have had their riding transformed. I generally seem to come away with one or maybe two useful tips which does help but doesn’t seem much for the money.

Not sure it is fair to name but some my gripes include:
Not being given actual instruction, just told to repeat an exercise.
Being told that the instructor has never failed to teach anyone to do a particular exercise then failing to teach me.
Paying for a half day and getting 2.5 hours.
Having an instructor not turn up.

If you’re on a public skills day then I think it’s a bit like lining up at the start of an xc race, don’t sell yourself short.

I did, a bit. The catch 22 for me was that I was doing a skills course as I was a bit short of confidence in my riding! There were bits of the day that I got a lot out of but the majority of it was waiting for others in the group to build confidence on some fairly small drops.

My own fault, shan’t name the coach as it was by no means their fault. Next coaching day is either going to be 1-2-1 or with my mates, as we’re all much of a muchness.

Not sure it is fair to name but some my gripes include:

Why not?

not surprised, GW is a Fast skilful rider, a Lot of instructors are ‘trained’ where he is Experienced, prolly where the wires got crossed 😉

Next coaching day is either going to be 1-2-1 or with my mates, as we’re all much of a muchness.

I agree. Bit like when I took my kids to swimming lessons, they didn’t learn much at all in half a year with a class size of 10. Two lessons 1-2-1 and they were competent swimmers.

Didn’t get much out of the one I did – but it’s a poor student who blames the prof, so I ain’t complaining.

Well not complaining much, but it seems obvious that people learn differently, so a good teacher should have a few different approaches up their sleeve. Just having one style is never going to work for everyone.

I agree with the above. The lesson I had with a mixed ability group of strangers taught me a lot less than the 1-2-1. I really think it is better value to go alone or with a group of similar ability.

I personally* think you will take more away from an afternoon at a Local or your favourite trail with your mates, drops, hitting jumps, general riding a few stops for piss taking and ridicule before getting back on your bike and enjoying the ride.

There’s no substitute for actually getting out there and putting in the Miles.
Doing it with people you enjoy spending time with makes it more enjoyable and this will bring you on more than a controlled classroom style environment.

I rode with my mates for several years, none of whom were aware of some of the things I was doing wrong. How would I then manage to improve? I don’t know what the problem is and neither do they. The result is that all the experience in the world is not going to correct my faults.

It’s not exactly a bad review, since overall I was happy but my first Dirtschool session was a bit of a mess- it was the intermediate course and was pretty clear up front that it’d be done on reds and blacks and require a decent level of skill. One of the group wasn’t quite at that level, and another was miles off, a definite blue route rider. Difficult situation to deal with to be fair but it caused a lot of problems, those 2 ended up soaking up far more of Andy’s time and it disrupted the course as well, we didn’t cover all the advertised material. I felt like the coaching was excellent but the group management was poor and we ended up getting penalised for other people’s mistake.

But I still had a good day and went back for 2 more sessions so obviously I didn’t feel too bad.

I’ve done a few
1:2:1
one was poor, not really thought out and with limited places to “practice”, not really much value

one was somewhere with some purpose built facilities, took me well out of my comfort zone, learned a lot

group
basic beginner skills done after the other two, learnt stuff

attitude from the trainer and the rider matter, lots of people are good riders but aren’t good coaches/ skills trainers

I’ve had good results, I would suggest a 1 to 1 session or you run the risk of the group being out of step and the loudest/worst one gets all the attention (normally to avoid them hurting themselves)
Knowing what you want from it and communicating it with the person doing the course is the key.

There’s no substitute for actually getting out there and putting in the Miles.
Doing it with people you enjoy spending time with makes it more enjoyable and this will bring you on more than a controlled classroom style environment.

Probably not the experience of most people, doing more of what you do with the same people doesn’t really help. You just keep doing what you do.
I’d picked up more in 20 mins that I had in 3 years riding with mates. It made a huge difference to how I approached my riding.

This is good, glad I asked.

Well its not a magic wand, you won’t come away from one and be able to enter the Red Bull Rampage, even though sometimes the +ve reviews on here make it seem that way.

Ime its more about being told what you’re doing wrong rather than how to do it right, you can’t unlearn bad habits immediately so you need to go away digest it all then get practising what you’ve learnt, at least partly, there a big confidence boost element too.

I had a shit session at Whistler once. Dutch guy, about 50, arrogant, unable to grasp the fact there may be riders of different skill/fitness levels in a mixed group. Would rush through techniques quickly, bomb ahead, wait impatiently at junctions until slower folk in the group arrived then take off immediately.

It was fine for me obvs cos I’m a total ledge but the OH never regained interest in MTB after that.

Had a 1-2-1 with Dirt School last year, defo the way to go but £££

I did a 1-2-1 full day one a while back with Great Rock – had an ok day but didn’t learn anything, didn’t feel structured and was expensive for what it was…pretty much put me off ever bothering to do a skills course again.

I’m a great believer in the method of finding a mate who’s better/faster than you and attempting to follow them. By all means ask a bit of advice, but mainly just try to read them. I do find there are some people who are easy to follow and others who aren’t.

Guides can also be very knowledgeable. They won’t spend much time coaching, but on the odd tech bit, the briefings they give beforehand can often be loaded with useful tips. We had some superb advice from Doug at Basque Mtb during the trip we did last year.

I think good skills coaching is difficult in groups, but can be well worth it nonetheless.

I rode with my mates for several years, none of whom were aware of some of the things I was doing wrong. How would I then manage to improve? I don’t know what the problem is and neither do they. The result is that all the experience in the world is not going to correct my faults.
CUT & PASTED ? I CANT DO IT, sorry

Imnotverygood, if as you suggest above you are not very good twinned with the fact that none of your mates appear to be much help combined with a defeatist attitude of “all the experience in the world not being able to correct your faults”

If your happy with what your doing then I wouldn’t waste your money on someone telling you something that you fail to correct.

On the other hand, riding with experienced riders who can tell you the basics of feet positioning, rider stance, weight distribution, where the pedals should be in relation to the ground when coasting or cornering, how to pre load travel on a bike when approaching a jump, manualing.

Things which a lot of riders take for granted but something that not everyone can do.
A bit like coaching, some people are receptive to it whilst others learn little from the experience. The way in which we learn and develop varies hugely, a good coach would be able to identify this and with the price of some of these sessions you wod expect to get good coaching staff,

From some of the forum members above, some have benefitted some havent, most advise 1~2~1 some advise just riding and some advise following on.
How we all develop is up to us as individuals, no coach no matter how experienced can help a basket case.

Did one with Campbell Coaching in N.Wales. I ended up hitting bigger jumps and drops than I thought I ever would (6ft plus), but didn’t really get much else from the day. As above, I guess much depends on the diligence of the student and learning style. I’m also somewhat suspicious of the consumer-like idea that one can buy grace and style in a day. IMHO watching Fabien Barel videos, memorising them, visualising them, and then consciously and forcibly putting those tips to work on the trail pays more dividends.

Pretty much what Kimbers has said: you aren’t going to cure (most) bad habits in a day. Getting the muscle memory to learn (or relearn) something new takes time, it’s like learning to play a musical instrument, plus you need to learn what the correct way “feels” like. You might happen on the latter by accident: “Hmm, that felt different” but if you aren’t even close to the correct technique then it’s going to take a while. Something like pumping the trail isn’t obvious and if you don’t know what you are trying to achieve then you are going to get the direction and timing of applying force all wrong.

People learn differently so while I might like instructor ‘A’, he might not be suitable for someone else. Likewise someone might recommend instructor ‘B’ but if his teaching style doesn’t match my learning style then I’m not going to get the most out of a session.

Mixed ability groups are always going to be a problem: what some regard as basic skills other regard as intermediate and an instructor initially has only the individual’s personal assessment to advise them of the group/course they should try. A sport like skiing has to some extent got over this by describing well known techniques: stem turn; parallel turn; etc. and linking them to particular levels so you know that you should look at ESF level 4 or whatever. In MTB you have the problem of the terrain being much more varied, it’s more like off-piste, so some people are really good at drop-offs but not so good on berms; others are good on loose rock and so on. Going back to pumping the trail, this is very much like weighting and unweighting your skis when travelling over bumps, once you get it it’s like “why didn’t I do this before?”

On a group session you are pretty much going to follow the training structure as advertised but I think if I were to take a 1-2-1 course then I’d be advising the instructor on what I wanted to get out of the day *before* I turned up then they can structure the session better to my needs. (It would be interesting to know what a 1-2-1 or 2-2-1 day of instructing would or does cost)

I’ve had a group course and was a little disappointed with what I got out of it. The main thing it taught me was confidence rather than specific techniques. Certainly I got absolutely nothing out of being one of a dozen or so pupils trying to pump through some lumps in a “show and tell” teaching style. Frustrating.

My 5 year old lad has group swimming lessons. During the summer holiday a lot of the kids did not attend so it was often just him and 2 others. His swimming came on loads in that small group and even he recognises and tells us a big group is no good.

I will be paying for 1 on 1 or a VERY small group if I ever go on a skills course again

Interesting thread. I’m maybe looking at having some coaching to see if you can teach an old dog new tricks….never had a coaching session and whilst I feel i’m an ok rider I must have picked up loads of bad habits in the past twenty odd years. Not wanting to hijack the thread but who would you recommend…definitely be 1-2-1 or 1-2-2 with my mate.

Mine was a disaster… he taught me to jump… but not to land 😉

p.s I’m kidding.. 🙂

Interesting comments.

Ive only two skills courses, both with trail motions. I booked a weekend in 2 groups. It was a lot cheaper than others (like great rock) and while I would like to have a day with great rock at some point if I had a similar course as the one with trail motions I would be upset about spending 160 quid as opposed to 70.

Anyhow I did the level one and two courses. As people said the skill level was mixed. On level one we had an “I only do black runs” guy who spent the day showing off to his other half. While the second course was much more mixed. I agree it seemed rubbish just doing drills of lifting the front wheel. However I couldn’t lift the front wheel so this was really good for me. I was hoping that I would get somone to grab hold of me and say move your body to here, or here and then I would be able to replicate the action. Instead we just did the same thing over and over again until “we got it”

The first day got me feeling a little more comfortable on the bike. The second I learned how to do a drop off properly (had no idea before) and get over the jumps safely. It really helped me although I guess without the “boring” first day I wouldn’t have got a much out of it (you could see this by some others in the group not getting to grips with the basics first)

So yes I can see why folks don’t get the experience they wanted. Speaking with others that I ride with that have done a variety of courses they all seem to be happy that they went on them (as was i) and will do them again but they went the magic pill they thought they would be. I thought that by spending an afternoon with somone I would suddenly be transformed into a black route riding god with no fear and amazing skills. It turns out that no amount of teaching will give me that. What I personally learned was that although you can teach the technique it all goes tits up when your tired after half an hour of riding and you cant support your weight for long periods out of the saddle. Although ive done nothing about this and am still looking forward to my next “magic pill” skills course.

weeksy – Member

Mine was a disaster… he taught me to jump… but not to land

I can do that all on my own! 😳

I assume the consensus is that they are helpful particularly with a good coach and particularly in small (max 3) groups so you get the attention you need.

If you’d have told me and my 2 mates I went with we’d be clearing table tops of 6′ and for the other 2 a 7′ gap jump by the end of the day we’d not have believed you.

Also, the fact we spent a good portion of the day correcting cornering techniques may well have annoyed some people, but it was useful for all of us who had developed a poor technique.

I read something recently that rings true; “practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect permanent”. I’ve been thinking through every commuting corner I’ve made since.

There’s the thing: you can’t spend all day doing drills, getting bored and tired as it becomes counter-productive, when you get tired your old bad habits kick back in. Doing half an hour a day for a fortnight is better than a full seven hour day.

Mine was a disaster… he taught me to jump… but not to land

So you’re currently in orbit? 8)

So you’re currently in orbit?

He’ll reply at the same time tomorrow when he passes back over.

I’ve done two, first was very prescriptive; “you must learn to track stand, then to lift the front wheel, then you must learn this, then that. You must use flat pedals, because otherwise you’ll do it wrong…etc”, second one was far more ‘reactive’ for want of a better term, and better for it.

Didn’t revolutionise my riding, and I still come across drops on my local trails that are smaller than stuff I rode there, but can’t make myself do it. Which is frustrating. But I’m sure I got quicker, and I still consciously think about the stuff I was taught.

There’s the thing: you can’t spend all day doing drills, getting bored and tired as it becomes counter-productive, when you get tired your old bad habits kick back in. Doing half an hour a day for a fortnight is better than a full seven hour day.

I agree, there is a gap in the market for “piano lesson” type coaching locally based where it’s about developing over a period rather than a single day hit

I’ve done two, first was very prescriptive; “you must learn to track stand, then to lift the front wheel, then you must learn this, then that. You must use flat pedals, because otherwise you’ll do it wrong…etc”,

all the signs of a BC trained level 2 MTB coach locked into the methodology

It’s hard though as most people are likely to have to travel quite a distance.

It’s hard though as most people are likely to have to travel quite a distance.

probably why MTB coaching needs to do a rethink, I think that a little though, a friendly farmer or council and then there is a different model that can be locally based