If I lived somewhere with lots of steep rocky gnarly trails and drivetrain eating grit I’d definitely be booking a test ride on both the Geometron and GPI.

I’ve never considered bike weight a big issue and I’m fairly convinced of the benefits of such a radical design – I’m sure if you went back a decade and asked people if my current 140mm bike with a head angle approaching 65 deg was a good idea they’d say it was downright silly!

I won’t derail this thread but after being sucked into Nicolai’s orbit by the Geometron I now find myself staring at this…

Not many full builds to look at online. Definitely a good base for an unusual custom build for those of us who don’t want to switch to plastic. I’d love to try one.

I know most riders don’t think about this at all, but I like how alloy frames (whether made in Germany or Taiwan) are made by skilled welders doing a relatively enjoyable and satisfying job on a decent wage – unlike carbon frames which are time-consuming and unpleasant to lay up and thus done by cheap Chinese labour with a flexible view on working conditions and health and safety…

Can’t really get my head round having to stop pedaling to change gears either.

I was worried about that with my Alfine but its not a problem at all, because its an instant gear change you only have to stop pedalling for an instant, after a few changes its very easy to adopt to. Its only the same mindset as driving a car with a clutch.

I’m sure if you went back a decade and asked people if my current 140mm bike with a head angle approaching 65 deg was a good idea they’d say it was downright silly!

People are still saying its sill now, never mind 10 years ago.

and thus done by cheap Chinese labour with a flexible view on working conditions and health and safety…

Any real facts on this or just internet hearsay? My understanding was they were on about $20k which is a good wage

I’m sure if you went back a decade and asked people if my current 140mm bike with a head angle approaching 65 deg was a good idea they’d say it was downright silly!

I remember the Bike Verbier guides were singing the praises of slack head angles on trail bikes over ten years ago, and I think it was around then that Steve Wade was playing around with the 223 as an ‘XC’ bike. That led on to the Strange Alpine 5 – a 140mm bike with a 62-64 degree head angle in around 2007. Chainstays on the shortish side though, so clearly an evolutionary dead end and in no way ahead of its time..

Not unless it also had a weighty and complicated transmission system which cost more than most frames.

Still not sure on belts though – haven’t folks on this here site tried belts and had them snap form debris like stones getting caught in the cog and snapping th belt?

I once snapped a chain for absolutely no obvious reason.

I like the idea of belt drive but the cost puts me off.

thepodge – Member

I once snapped a chain for absolutely no obvious reason.

Thing is, you can fix a chain with a quick link. To fix a belt you need a belt factory.

Any real facts on this or just internet hearsay? My understanding was they were on about $20k which is a good wage

Nope, no facts sadly! 😉 I will however eat many hats if any workers on the shop floor in Chinese carbon frame factories are on $20k/yr!!! Google says the average factory wage is $9k (a lot higher than some years ago). I’ve made composites and it’s a bloody horrible job!

Would Nicolai like MTQGraham to do some longterm testing? 😉

Couldn’t the gearbox be setup similarly, but with a chain and sprockets instead of the belt? Removes all of the belt drive worries.

Yeah, would prefer a chain, but you lose two niche points for that. Is it a wear thing? Is the sprocket very awkward to replace?

Northwind – Thing is, you can fix a chain with a quick link. To fix a belt you need a belt factory.

Just carry a new belt, they weigh less than a chain tool.

You can read what Max Commencal had to say about some Chinese carbon manufacturing here:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/From-The-Top-Max-Commencal-interview-2013.html

Belts, mud and debris, cant see that working very well.

Glad he’s against carbon, he cant get alu right

thepodge – Member

Just carry a new belt, they weigh less than a chain tool.

But cost twice as much as a chain, and the frame needs to be split to fit them, and the wheel removed, and then it all has to be retensioned.

Really not sure the benefits outweigh the disadvantages

If I’m spending around 7k on a bike, I can’t see me worrying about the cost of a replacement belt.

The frame already has a lot of splits in it and has a sprung tensioner.

I bet I could change a belt on that within a similar amount of time as I could fix the chain.

Where you see problems I see an opportunity to experiment.

If I was confident that the belt never (or almost never) broke, then maybe.

But from what I’ve read of belts used off road, they break frequently. And at 60 quid a pop, I’m out.

Very much looking forward to riding a Geometron and maybe a GPI in January. Its been a while since I have beenso impressed by the though thats gone into a bike.

For those of you who want to try a modern super long geometry bike, without paying £200 to Mojo, perhaps get in touch and try out the Starling Cycles test bike.

See Facebook/StarlingCycles.

The new test bike has 780mm reach, 65° head angle and 1240mm wheelbase.

From what people have said about the Mojo, I think I’ve achieved the same thing with my bike. Stand on the pedals and get your weight central and it is super stable. I think it really helps with cornering as the bike drifts so predictably, really lets you push it into corners with super confidence. On the rough it’s unbeatable.

The new test bike has 780mm reach, 65° head angle and 1240mm wheelbase.

780mm – hells bells now we’re talking, all these other guys taking their little steps lets whack it up to the extreme.

Doh! Got my bar widths and reach mixed up…

480mm reach!

the bike drifts so predictably, really lets you push it into corners with super confidence. On the rough it’s unbeatable

Wow, with your inspiring not copy and pasted from a cheesey lines catalogue straight talking spiel I feel compelled to ignore the obvious astroturfing/jumping on the bandwagon and rush to have a look.
#Some/all of this might not be actually true but you should still try a bit harder.
Edit..I did.I quite like that 😀

I don’t have a catalogue, so nothing to cut and paste from.

All my own words. This is how it rides! I’m an engineer, not a wordsmith. Perhaps you can help me and suggest some alternatives?

Perhaps you should rein in your cynicism and have a look?

Edit..I did.I quite like that

Errr.Not much of a reader apparently.
You may need to toughen up a little…..you’ll get much worse and quite a lot of it not tongue in cheek either.
So good luck with that.

What’s the difference apart from some arty farty photography?

See 😉

I haven’t been on this forum for a while, I forgot about all the tits!

Starling needs a proper website as scrolling through loads of Facebook posts to find info has put me off investigating further a few times

There’s Bustards and Cocks here aswell as Tits.Birdist.

There’s hermaphro-gobshites too.

Starling Cycles website is on its way in the new year. The Facebook page has been good, but agreed, it’s not easy to find information. My priority has been getting the bikes sorted, before the slick marketing.

Yes, there’s a whole variety of different kinds of birds available on this forum. But there’s also a very high proportion of Tits!

Perhaps steer this topic back onto the benefits of long slack geometry…

Do you know any other bikes apart from the Geomotron that have it?

I’ve made two bikes with super long geometry. One longer than the other. Also a number of shorter bikes with the same design.

My take is that the long bikes are great at high speed and in the rough. But, they also corner well as a I stated before. Low speed corners aren’t that much harder.

Where I find they struggle is that the length makes them harder to manual and pick the bike up so easily. This makes it harder for instant line changes, hopping out of ruts etc. This reduction in pop makes them less suited to jumping.

So for racing, where all our speed matters, and quite often just hanging on for dear life to carry speed is important, than the long bike is great.

But if you’re just hanging out in the woods with your mates, finding every little lip to pop off, then a shorter wheelbase is better.

Horses for courses, I suppose…

I like the look of the starling stuff and may well be in touch when the new site is up but a good chunk of the appeal of the geometron is the one to one suspension setup.

Dave Garland is working closely with me to set up the Storia shock. Not that it needs that much, it’s a beast from the start!

So for racing, where all our speed matters, and quite often just hanging on for dear life to carry speed is important, than the long bike is great.

So why are most DH bikes considerably shorter than your findings?

Because there is no one perfect size of bike. There is a massive window of what works and most stuff is at one end, these bikes are at the other end.