anyone else call their kid(s) a little monkey?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/42617379/the-weeknd-wont-work-with-hm-after-racist-advert

Anything to add other than just a link?

Oooh, is this going to be this month’s “white men show little understanding of the nuances of racism” thread?

No, but my middle one has red hair and if he was asked to model a shirt which said “Coolest Carrot on the Allotment” i’d probably object.

It’s all about context innit.

I’m struggling to be offended by it, ill thought out, yes, do I think there was any malicious intent? Of course not.

Is that how it works now, a simple honest mistake trying navigate the maze of 21st century offence top trumps and it’s pitchforks at dawn? People are so intolerant these days.

Boy2 has always been called “Monkey”. That’s because he was climbing before he was walking.

yes, but…

nuance and context

I’d love to know the sequence of initial racism followed by wanton stupidity at H&M that led to this. The internal root cause analysis would be an epic tale.

I do, he’s 1/4 African though.

Does that make me a bad person? I should probably check but i’m not sure who’s the authority on this sort of thing?

might not be malicious but definitely stupid

Is that how it works now, a simple honest mistake trying navigate the maze of 21st century offence top trumps and it’s pitchforks at dawn?

Well, it’s more pointing out that many white people are oblivious to racism. And when whites are the majority, this represents a problem for non-whites. We’d love to live in a post-race world, but we don’t – and white people should not use this to conveniently forget about the problems of race.

I think that’s the point of this news item isn’t it?

The Weeknd says the advert made him feel “shocked and embarrassed.”

The singer has previously sold merchandise through H&M and modelled for the company.

Well I can see why he would feel embarrassed with a moniker like that and selling merchandise through H&M. The Bellnd, more like.

I’m struggling to be offended by it

Some people are though, and some of those people can give a cogent explanations as to why. Isn’t that enough?

do I think there was any malicious intent? Of course not.

I don’t think anyone does, but just cos it’s ‘only’ a careless mistake doesn’t mean it’s okay.

I’m struggling to be offended by it, ill thought out, yes, do I think there was any malicious intent? Of course not.
Is that how it works now, a simple honest mistake trying navigate the maze of 21st century offence top trumps and it’s pitchforks at dawn? People are so intolerant these days.

You mean to tell me that out of all the poeple involved (photographers,agents,parents,marketeers,editors etc etc) no-one managed to spot the obvious balls up here! thats my problem with it, not one person along the chain was able to see that this is wrong.

I’d love to know the sequence of initial racism followed by wanton stupidity at H&M that led to this.

Is the word still widespread as a derogatory term? It’s not really surprising that a young fashion designer may not have ever encountered the term in such a way. If the manager or whatever signing it off was also quite young that could easily explain it. There must be dozens of derogatory terms that were popular enough decades ago but not that popular that we can expect kids to know about them.

maybe we should ask Mr Beadsley ?

I think Africans are a bit sensitive to this; I once called my son a little monkey in front of some Nigerian business visitors who we were entertaining and there was a shocked reaction, before my customer’s wife asked me: “What did you call him?” I found myself explaining that it is quite common to call kids little monkeys.

You mean to tell me that out of all the people involved (photographers,agents,parents,marketeers,editors etc etc) no-one managed to spot the obvious balls up here! thats my problem with it, not one person along the chain was able to see that this is wrong.

Maybe, maybe not – I’m not sure about this particular case, but often with these sorts of things they’ll take one image with one top and then super impose different versions of the same garment into the same head.

Anyway, that’s not the point – as the OP was getting at I think, lots of people call their kids ‘cheeky little monkeys’ it’s completely innocent, it’s completely harmless, I must have called my kids monkeys this week. I’ve called other adults cheeky monkeys too, if I had the foresight (not my strong suit) I would avoid calling any Black people Monkeys, if I did I would hope that they’d know what I meant and if I did upset someone I’d be horrified but really, I think to take a first look at that image and think “he’s calling that kid a monkey because he’s black and black people are less evolved than other races” is sort of sick in it’s own way and I think it validates the idiots who think that.

More than that though, I think there’s an awful lot of people who spend too much time looking to twist things to find wrong doing where there was none. The Weeknd has strong ties with H&M, he could have picked up the phone and said “Hey Lads, I’m not too sure about this hoodie of yours, have you really thought this one through?” maybe someone in Sweden might have said “Really, in some places white people call black people monkeys? shit that’s grim, yeah we’ll drop it” but no, maybe it’s worth a few hundred thousand streams to make a huge fuss about it and concrete the idea that it hurtful to call Black People Monkeys.

If I was the Weeknd and H&M released a line of white hoods ‘KKK style’ or Velcro chains for ‘slave wear’ I’d ‘sever ties’ too, but they didn’t.

I got in trouble for this, when i was lunch room supervisor (ooh the POWER!) to a group of 1st or 2nd years when i was in the sixth form (mid 80’s). Two kids were constantly pissing about and I said that ‘if you two little monkeys don’t go back to your seats I’ll give you both a work squad’ (means they get to spend a lunch break litter picking or something)

One of them complained about it to their form tutor and i got admonished for racial insensitivity. My protestations that it couldn’t have been racist because only one of them was black and I called them both the same fell on deaf ears.

FWIW the other was a ching chong chinaman. NOT REALLY!!!!!!

I think there’s an awful lot of people who spend too much time looking to twist things to find wrong doing where there was none.

Not in this case. No-one’s accusing H&M of actually being racist. They’re saying it’s insensitive because there’s a long and bitter history of the use of the word monkey in racist language. And TBH you’re being very white about this by telling black people what they should or shouldn’t be offended about.

i got admonished for racial insensitivity

Right. Not racism, but racial insensitivity.

+1Molgrips

I’d need a picture of a turd and paper bag, as I regularly call my kids “you little shit bag”

It’s not really surprising that a young fashion designer may not have ever encountered the term in such a way.

Absolutely. It seems an entirely innocent thing to have done, like jonv – but we still need to be aware. I think it’s called ‘tact’ isn’t it?

Im with P-Jay on this one

Talk about outrage looking for something to be outraged against.

Don’t forget when the shoot was done the models parent or guardian would have been there too. Making the heroic assumption they are the same race then clearly they also saw nothing wrong.

Would we have the same fuss if they had used a white model? If not why not?

bit racially insensitive and very easily avoided

H+M have obviously got an idiot editor working for them

I always refer to my kids as little shits to avoid exactly this type of furore

Would we have the same fuss if they had used a white model? If not why not?

Think about it for 10 seconds.

yunki – Member

bit racially insensitive and very easily avoided

H+M have obviously got an idiot editor working for them

What if the idiot editor was black, refers to his or her own children as little monkeys and hence, saw no problem.

Makes you think.

Adding “in the Jungle” makes it quite a lot worse I think. “Go back to the jungle” is a common racist insult.

Makes me think no normal person would even notice. This race obsessed nonsense is an embarrassment.

Slowly but surely, the easily outraged are being replaced in number by the easily outraged at those easily outraged.

Making the heroic assumption they are the same race then clearly they also saw nothing wrong.

How do you know they saw nothing wrong with it?

Slowly but surely, the easily outraged are being replaced in number by the easily outraged at those easily outraged.

Could we refer to that as going ‘Double Snowflake’ Bravissimo? 😀

Anyway….

Makes me think no normal person would even notice. This race obsessed nonsense is an embarrassment.

I’m all for thinking of myself as racially blind in my thinking and actions but even then you’d have to either be massively naive or insensitive to think that this should ever have been used as an image. Even if it was to prevent dicks retweeting the image with a racial slur attached.

Personally find ‘little cheeky monkey’ and variations quite an endearing phrase used with naughty kid and do it myself. Sad that offence could be taken from it but it is, and reasonably so. So there it is.

But hang on; this dude calls himself ‘The Weeknd’? Really? What a doosh. Sounds/spells like the Guardian Saturday supplement title.

Makes me think no normal person would even notice. This race obsessed nonsense is an embarrassment.

Mmm.. just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Tell me the last time you suffered racial abuse?

Designers have maybe been called monkeys since they were in nursery. Have a quick google search for “cheeky monkeys nursery” or “cheeky monkeys soft play” and you won’t have to travel far to find one. Or maybe they all (Bellnd included) did it deliberately for the publicity. H&M sales are down, closing shops.

Not all monkeys are black or brown ..there are some that are ginger ..some Black & White some that are blue faced and some like this little fellow..
I can see why some would see racial overtones ..but you would like to think that the ad. was done innocently …
https://goo.gl/images/7RjE68

But hang on; this dude calls himself ‘The Weeknd’?

Reads better than ‘Bellnd’.

I should think it reminds people of times they’ve suffered abuse.

This is easy: the people that don’t see the racism are racist for not seeing the racism. The people that do see the racism are racist for seeing it as racist.

and the follow up