[Closed] anyone else call their kid(s) a little monkey?

[quote=glasgowdan ]If you look at that and instantly think "oh dear that's racist because he's black", then you are indeed racist.

Yes of course that's it. Clearly it's only the black slebs who are racist.

[quote=mudshark ]I can't think I knew that some call black people monkeys

Had a sheltered life? I thought it was common knowledge that black footballers got abused with monkey chants and having bananas thrown at them (in the bad old days - hopefully that sort of thing has mostly stopped now) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8898054/Former-Liverpool-star-John-Barnes-says-society-is-to-blame-for-racism-problem-that-football-just-cant-shift.html

Yes, but not when my black friends and their kids are around. (I have two black friends.)

I once said "chop chop!" to a chinese friend (who was dawdling)

I was mortified. It prompted a conversation about the fact I was pretty blind to her ethnicity - and had I not have been, how I wouldn't have said it.

The outcome was we agreed that I was a muppet, not a racist.

I once said "chop chop!" to a chinese friend (who was dawdling) I was mortified.

Ive used it a few times while trying to get co-workers or contractors to get a move on, its not insulting, its not even understood by most native Cantonese speakers I know.

She grew up here in the 70s/80s - it certainly made up part of the incessant bullying she had to put up with in her youth. The Cantonese may not consider it a racist slur, but Caucasian kids from the home counties certainly did.

I call my son a monkey, he's half Chinese rather than fully black so guess that's OK?

😯

Anyone who cannot see the problem with this photograph is deluded. Its as plain as the nose on your face!

What about this one? Cute and cuddly or racist and highly offensive??

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For me it says good things about this country and its attitude to racism.

Rather than thinking that somebody put the kid in the jumper to cause offence, perhaps the person who set it up is completely unaware of the reference and didn't give it a thought because they don't see race as an issue?

My kids are learning about racism at school at the moment and we have had a few conversations about it at home. They understand the concept of discriminating on the base of skin colour, the idea they cannot understand is why a person would dislike somebody just because they have a different skin colour. It is a hard one to explain to young, naive children.

African colleagues often refer to a kid, any kid as a cheeky monkey.
I was quite surprised, being a sensitive lefty.

We had a conversation about this in work a year or so ago, when talking about phrases they'd picked up from living in the UK.

They said they heard it used a lot over here and found it amusing, so picked it up themselves.

Maybe it's a Northern thing but everyone uses it up here.
I think because it's in such common use 'Monkey' doesn't really get used so much as a racial insult.
Thick Northern Monkey has almost become a badge of pride.
🙂

Don't hear kids being called 'Scruffy Arab' much these days.
Was in common usage when I was a kid.

Ooooh, It's a northern thing?

Where's this Bellnd from? If he's southern can we string him up for cultural appropriation as well? 😀

Don't hear kids being called 'Scruffy Arab' much these days.
Was in common usage when I was a kid.

I remember "dirty Arab" alot....meant nothing to me as a kid other than you didnt take 3 showers a day....

I can see how it didn't get called out by anybody at H&M, lots of people probably thought...

"Hmmm, surely that's not a great idea"

but nobody said anything because to call it out in corporate world you'd be afraid of being branded yourself... to call it out you have to recognise the association..

I can see how it didn't get called out by anybody at H&M, lots of people probably thought...
"Hmmm, surely that's not a great idea"
but nobody said anything because to call it out in corporate world you'd be afraid of being branded yourself... to call it out you have to recognise the association..

Sorry but thats BS... No-one would be branded a racist for raising a hand and saying "you know what? maybe this isnt such a good idea"

What about this one? Cute and cuddly or racist and highly offensive??

Neither?

Neither?

Really?? Wow.

Sorry but thats BS... No-one would be branded a racist for raising a hand and saying "you know what? maybe this isnt such a good idea"

That would be nice wouldn’t it.

But.

glasgowdan - Member
If you look at that and instantly think "oh dear that's racist because he's black", then you are indeed racist.

Seems it’s not the case.

glasgowdan - Member
If you look at that and instantly think "oh dear that's racist because he's black", then you are indeed racist.

No, it just means you are socially well informed and respectful of other cultures and thier histories.

If you look at that and instantly think "oh dear that's racist because he's black", then you are indeed racist.

Literally, all I see is a kid.

Well said Dan. My sentiments entirely.

Far too many people (on here as well as not on here) just want to see an excuse to show the race card.

It's not about what YOU see. It's about what black people see.

What does "show the race card" even mean?

🙄

I had no idea that recognising that there might be a problem with using simian references when talking to a black person or representing them pictorially made me racist. Every day’s a school day it seems. I hope someone’s told Roy Hodgson too.

Rather than thinking that somebody put the kid in the jumper to cause offence, perhaps the person who set it up is completely unaware of the reference and didn't give it a thought because they don't see race as an issue?

Probably very naive of me but this, in my honest opinion, is what the world should be striving for. Race just being a complete nonexistent issue. Sadly that day is not in sight. When I look at that image I don’t think racism. It’s just a kid in a hoody.

What does "show the race card" even mean?

I think he means [i]play[/i] the race-card.

Really?? Wow.

Really. I very much doubt that anyone would market it with the intention of causing offence, because if nothing else, it would be bad for business. Nevertheless, it is associated with historical terms of abuse so it's not something I would sign off. So if it's alright with you, I'll carry on thinking it's a bit crap but not top of my list of things to be concerned about. Not that such attitudes will stop the "only saying what everyone's thinking" brigade from being outraged at any suggestion they might think about other people.

I once said "chop chop!"

I guess that means it's perfectly possible to be/say something racist even without malice, or even knowing what you're saying is racist!

I think he means play the race-card.

Yes and it's a term that's usually used to suggest a black or ethnic minority person is falsely claiming racism for some kind of advantage.

I've never seen anyone do that on here.

I've never seen anyone do that on here.

Me neither but I’ve seen plenty of accusations of it.

I once did a home visit to a travelling family and was handed the newest baby to hold, beaming beatifically id said " Your're a little tinker aren't you ? " , to be fair he was .

Never heard of chop chop being racist?

It's not about what YOU see. It's about what black people see.

I agree completely.
If something offends someone, it is by it's nature offensive.

But it is in common usage in a non racist or offensive manner and has been for years.

Comparing ourselves to our near genetic neighbours is inevitable.
From the initial public perception and acceptance of Evolution to comedy, Ian Brown, Lock Stock, Attenborough etc, it's a fascinating part of everyone's shared human consciousness.

It's not inherently racist, although like anything it can easily be used in a racist manner.

Context, innit?

We seem to be inbetween two different eras when it comes to things like this. The older generations who can recall the slurs used and maybe even used them or subjected to them themselves, and the youngsters today who might not have any awareness whatsoever and the whole subject is alien to them.

I am not sure we need to keep educating them on terms that were used to abuse in the past and to rule then out for their future. Is it not better just to let them get on with it and the problem finally dies away?

I think about the young black kid in this picture who for all we know might have had a really great day doing a photoshoot. Now he is news for something he might not even understand. A young kid who might have even got a kick out of the comparison to being his favourite animal or something being told he shouldn't wear it because if the colour of his skin.

Makes me sad for the youth to have the faults of their elders hanging over them.

Never heard of chop chop being racist?

Never heard of chinky being racist? 😉

Certainly never heard it described as racist before. Having just googled it though, it probably is

The, er, "trouble" with "chop-chop" is that it also gives rise to "chopsticks" and "choppy" when describing the sea.

As for the opening post and the quesiton of whether it's racist, I suggest everyone on this thread reads [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sellout_%28novel%29 ]The Sellout by Paul Beatty[/url] for a contemporary take.

Let me ask this....

How many of you would be happy to walk up to a black person in the street and say to their little kid "awwww you`re a cute little monkey arent you?"

that’s what I said wasn’t it?

Yes you did. I still haven’t.

I'm fairly sure the phrase 'chop chop' along with 'chopsticks' and 'choppy seas' aren't [i]inherently[/i] racist, as they are just words acquired from a different language, such is the way of the English language. I'm also pretty sure that they [i]could[/i] be used in a racist manner though, which kind of cuts to the crux of this issue. There appears to be two types of racism being talked about here; deliberate racism of the 'monkey football chant' variety, and perceived racism, such as the cheeky monkey t shirt. I'm fairly sure both are wrong, but I'm also fairly sure that they are on a entirely different order of magnitude of wrongness to each other.

Let me ask this....

How many of you would be happy to walk up to a black person in the street and say to their little kid "awwww you`re a cute little monkey arent you?"

Yes you did. I still haven’t

Yeah, I was surprised when I googled the etymology. Every day’s a school day I guess.

. I'm fairly sure both are wrong, but I'm also fairly sure that they are on a entirely different order of magnitude of wrongness to each other.

I'm fairly sure the phrase 'chop chop' along with 'chopsticks' and 'choppy seas' aren't inherently racist, as they are just words acquired from a different language, such is the way of the English language. I'm also pretty sure that they could be used in a racist manner though, which kind of cuts to the crux of this issue. There appears to be two types of racism being talked about here; deliberate racism of the 'monkey football chant' variety, and perceived racism, such as the cheeky monkey t shirt. I'm fairly sure both are wrong, but I'm also fairly sure that they are on a entirely different order of magnitude of wrongness to each other.

I agree, the t-shirt is more "bad taste" with racist connotations than outright racist.

I am not sure we need to keep educating them on terms that were used to abuse in the past and to rule then out for their future. Is it not better just to let them get on with it and the problem finally dies away?

I think about the young black kid in this picture who for all we know might have had a really great day doing a photoshoot. Now he is news for something he might not even understand. A young kid who might have even got a kick out of the comparison to being his favourite animal or something being told he shouldn't wear it because if the colour of his skin.

Makes me sad for the youth to have the faults of their elders hanging over them.

That’s how I see it too and it saddens me for the same reasons

What does "show the race card" even mean?

Yeah, & 'play the race card', same really.
Happens a lot in the prison service.

'Your'e picking on me cos I'm black/asian'

'I'm not picking on you, I keep saying 'no' cos you keep asking for things you aren't entitled to. & if you ask Officer Rahim he'll say no as well, so sod off'

That sort of thing.

ah. Apologies for my sarcastic reply. I mentally inserted “you’ve” in front of your question rather than “I’ve”, which I guess is what you meant, and completely changes the meaning of what I thought you said.

I do that a lot. 😆

Yeah, I was surprised when I googled the etymology. Every day’s a school day I guess.

Me too but it seems to be the most common theory is that it’s pidgin Chinese. I’m not convinced that makes it racist or offensive given it just means hurry up.

In the context of this debate what do you now think of Kelvin MacKenzie's comment about Ross Barkely (compared him to a Gorilla) that was considered by many as racist as Barkely's father is from Nigeria even though MacKenzie claims he was not aware of this and visually his black african heritage is not apparent?

In the context of this debate what do you now think of Kelvin MacKenzie's comment about Ross Barkely (compared him to a Gorilla) that was considered by many as racist as Barkely's father is from Nigeria even though MacKenzie claims he was not aware of this and visually his black african heritage is not apparent?

It's inconceivable that MacKenzie did not know that "gorilla" was a term of racist abuse.

It's inconceivable that MacKenzie did not know that "gorilla" was a term of racist abuse.

No, that MacKenzie did not know that Barkely has a black father.

I'm struggling to find any ****s to give on this "news".

Life has got to be pretty good if people are finding the time to bicker over shit this inconsequential.

It reminds me of a skit on a Blak Twang album where some people on the tube are reproached by some heavy black youths for being racist after describing an Arsenal midfielder as a monkey.

Turns out they were discussing Martin Keown, causing everyone involved to have a good giggle

just as racist if they had used a white kid?

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