Any employment lawyers in the house

Slightly different situation*, but when my wife went through it we engaged a lawyer who took one look at her paperwork (ie evidence) and told us it would be relatively simple.

Walked away with a full year’s salary enabling us to spend 5 months traveling.

*long story short: constructive dismissal, arsehole boss, potential for organisation reputation damage, management tried to smooth things over offering her alternative roles that were not what she’d been hired to do.

I was once “managed out”.  they made such a mess of the process that instead of one months notice and £400 redundancy I had 7 months Garden leave and £7000 because Julie and I knew the legal processes better than their HR.  We gave them enough rope to hang themselves and they jumped right into it. Compromise agreement. 

Any news then, now they’re supposed to have spoken?

I can’t help but wonder whether getting rid was their game plan all along. Both employers’ head offices are pretty much next door to each other which makes me suspicious about some sort of matey deal at the top. Something was let slip in a Teams meeting regarding my current employer wanting access to my former employer’s client base, so maybe my old team is just considered collateral damage, they never really wanted us in the first place but had no choice. Though all of this of course pure speculation, I can’t prove any of it but it kind of stinks.

Possibly, and TBH not that uncommon. Usually it’s one of; Company A takes over company B to acquire a technology they don’t have, to access a geography they don’t serve, or to access a customer base. And subject to MMC, etc. not illegal.
As part of the takeover some staff will be in duplicate roles, and consequently won’t be kept on. You don’t need two finance directors, SE England sales guys, whatever. So you can cherry pick the better ones (sorry, follow appropriate process for redundancy selection) and get rid of the rest. It’s not ‘stinky’ really, it’s what businesses do all the time.
But that’s where TUPE comes in, if they aren’t on the retained list even though they might have only been with the new company for a few days or weeks, all their accrued rights, etc. come in.
This is broadly where you are, except you had a MH issue in between (but they can’t hold that against you in selecting who to keep) and they have then offered alternate jobs that are not suitable. Consequently you should now be entitled to Stat redundancy under TUPE, plus any accrued holiday, etc. That’s your entitlement. Any additional offer for settlement / waiving rights to go to a tribunal etc., are to cover the unfair treatment over MH point. Which you may or may not win in the end, but even if you didn’t they’re weighing up cost to defend vs cost to make it go away.

Not a dicky bird.

they have then offered alternate jobs that are not suitable.

My job role changed when I was TUPED, not whilst I was off.

The solicitor just emailed the HR director saying she will “obtain instructions.”

I’m really getting my money’s worth out of £300/hour plus VAT aren’t I.

Not a dicky bird.

I feel like we are missing something because the very next post is:

The solicitor just emailed the HR director saying she will “obtain instructions.”

Which is solicitor speak for “talk to my client and see if he wants to agree to your proposal”.  But if there has been no proposal what is she seeking instructions for?

I’m really getting my money’s worth out of £300/hour plus VAT aren’t I.

Well the good news in that only got you £50!  She could have written a florid email that meant nothing more but would have cost you £400!

It’s just legalese as Poly said.

https://www.rcsolicitors.co.uk/disputes/solicitors-costs/instructing-a-solicitor

Basically means they’ll talk to you and ask you what you want them to do.

Seems strange that you aren’t saying anything about what they want to get your instruction on though, maybe the solicitor has an offer (anything from here’s a lot of money to go away to a flat refusal) and you can’t say what that is though.

But she’s not asking you what she should do next because she doesn’t know, she’d be asking because it’s your decision to make.

lawyer should be giving options to you and the pros and cons of each

I feel like we are missing something because the very next post is:

It’s as presented. I’ve heard nothing until that email today. If they’ve spoken to each other then no-one has told me about it.

I suppose I shouldn’t complain too loudly, I’ve been told not to work and they’re still paying me.

Just had an appointment with the mental health nurse. I’ve been prescribed Mirtazapine. This is uncharted territory. Hopefully it’ll mean I get some sleep if nothing else.

Have you spoken / emailed your solicitor to see what is happening. Seems to me that getting this resolved quickly is almost as important as getting the absolute best deal. But don’t cave in just to get it done, at this stage they don’t care for your mental health and if dragging it out makes you weaken they’ll do it.

Update.

My solicitor forwarded me correspondence from their solicitor. They are (of course) denying all claims but have upped the ‘clear off’ bonus from £3k to £10k.

ask for a years salary , settle for 6 months

I’ve worked for companies that have been bought, and several times and currently for one that buys people quite often.  You don’t need all those managers, and that includes technical staff as well.

C’est la vie , it isn’t personal, but it isn’t a charity

Well, I’ve instructed my lawyer to accept the offer. Truth be told, she hasn’t instilled me with confidence from the outset and the employer will have deeper pockets than I do.

I think I have a reasonable case but what I don’t have is the resources either financially or mentally if I reject it and they call my bluff and take it to tribunal. I was not in a great place from the outset and I have to protect that.

The payout will pay off a couple of debts and keep me in the equivalent of a salary for, if I’ve done the math, maybe four or five months.

The payout will pay off a couple of debts and keep me in the equivalent of a salary for, if I’ve done the math, maybe four or five months.

You are out of there and have a bit of breathing room. Sounds like a good outcome.

I think I have a reasonable case

A lot of people do but it will get messy in a tribunal. You’ve probably done the right thing, I’d have pushed for a bit more but if the solicitor wasn’t very good….

End of the day you need to look after yourself after what you’ve been through, drawing a line under it with some payout as recognition of them at fault is not a bad way to do it.

Thats not a bad outcome.  You could maybe have levered them for a bit more but maybe not.  Its highly unlikely they would want to go to tribunal.  Ho0wever drawing a full stop under the whole affair is worth a fair bit as well

Good to see you’ve logically thought through it and picked your best solution.

I hope so.

I’ve rejected two offers, the most recent one came via a solicitor rather than the company and closes with something like “this is absolutely our best offer.” A lot of what they claim is simply untrue, but me evidencing that is another matter.

It’s Christmas in a week, which shouldn’t matter but the last thing I want to be doing is fretting about all of this, for the family’s sake as much as my own.

I never did work out what “without prejudice” meant.

Without prejudice 

Basically cant be used in court. 

Is that legally binding? Seems awfully convenient.

If not already done, then I strongly suggest that you supply the wording to be used in response to third party reference requests, and that the agreement mandates that that text should be the only response from the company.  Also an agreement with how the company is going to reveal/announce/explain your departure to fellow employees/customers etc.
Removes much of the possibility of any post-agreement shenanigans with what potential future employers may get told.

Without prejudice – we’re making this offer but in doing so infer no blame or responsibility to be read into it. 

Thats not a bad outcome.

Its a good outcome. you’re happy, the employer is happy. you might have been able to squeeze some more about, but not without incurring any more cost with a solicitor that you aren’t really that confident.  Too many people try to “have their day in court” and end up losing the case or losing out financially.

unless my legal fees were being covered by insurance I’d try very hard to stay away from a tribunal.

Without prejudice

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/2-107-7511?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)

Is that legally binding?

Not always. Its used where you are trying to negotiate a settlement and the without prejudice bit means “you can’t use the fact I’ve offered you money to settle this thing against me in the event the negotiation fails and we end up in court anyway”

a communication may not be privileged if you aren’t actually making a genuine attempt to come to an agreement.

Sounds like it’s above your bottom line but not as good as your ideal outcome, which is a pretty good result IMV.

Whenever I get my ideal outcome I’m always kicking myself for not asking for more.

Well done, you got a settlement you were happy with, and can get on with your life.

Good result.  Make sure you’ve got the cash before you’ve signed and left! Cash in your bank this week ideally 

Well, the payout landed finally.

£18k give or take pocket change. That’ll pay off the credit card and keep the wolves from the door for a few months.

Thanks to all who took the time to reply, it’s sincerely appreciated.

Well done!

Nice work. Well done for holding your line.

I think sufficient time has passed that I might as well add a coda to this tale. Plot twist: I’m the OP.

Four of us were TUPEd. My apprentice got a better offer elsewhere (for more money than I was on, the little shit) so never transferred. My partner-in-crime colleague was made redundant earlier this year, a few months after I unceremoniously departed. My former boss is still there, but he’s counting down the weeks to retirement so that’s in both parties’ best interests just to ride it out.

I think I said earlier that I suspected this was their game plan all along. The new company never wanted any of us, we were just collateral damage. I am, truth be told, still violently angry about the whole thing after the amount of blood sweat and tears I poured into a company for 16 years just to be thrown under a bus by a change in upper management, but it’s done now and I’m glad to be out of it.

I’ve said this before. Loyalty and hard work/ability counts for nothing. When your number’s up and you’re in the cross hairs, that’s it. Doesn’t matter who you know, how good or diligent you are – sayonara.

I hope you got a decent golden parachute and are fixed up well elsewhere. Learn from it and good luck.

I’m currently living off CapEx rather than OpEx. We’re OK for now but this is a finite situation. If anyone needs someone with management experience who knows a bit about computers I’m all ears.

And, thank you.

I”m currently living off CapEx rather than OpEx.

I know that experience. I’ll keep an ear to the ground, our IT team seems to have imploded so there may be vacancies, pm me with your details. I might have a vacancy in my team coming up, probably below you skill set but might give you some breathing space.

Are there any Contract opportunities within a sensible commute? Employers would normally give their collective left testicle for someone that ‘does’ rather than just talks about it… Not a great time of year to be looking but if you’re not looking, you’ll (almost) certainly not get placed.

And don’t forget, it really is them not you – cnts. Although that doesn’t pay the bills, it’s important to retain some self respect.

Yup, It’s easy to say in retrosepect, but you are just a number at the and of the day…

I’ve been on both sides of the coin, the worst was when I ran a support team of 12 people (pretty much 24/7 IT support coverage)… the entire team got outsourced and 6 of our 12 were temps, as ‘team leader’ I had the lovely job of laying them off, knowing damn well I was gonna get laid off a few months after a bit of handover stuff, it wasn’t spelled out as such but the writing was on the wall.

Cooperate IT is bloody soul destroying at times – half my job was ‘playing the game’ and sucking the right sausage, as opposed to actually doing my day job. I’m glad I’m out.

Been there, got the T-shirt!