Any employment lawyers in the house

No, the solicitor should advise you on whether you should accept the offer, negotiate for more, or reject it and see them in court.

I see. Thank you.

I think the key thing is that it’s not really personal. It smarts at the time, but give it a few months when you’ve settled it’ll be old news. 

It’s safe to put this here as it’s anonymous, right?

I have looked at the background and believe we can get you a lot more money that the £3k they are offering over and above your contractual rights

If the new role did not work out because you have effectively been demoted then really they need to pay at least statutory redundancy pay . You are [] and have worked there [] full years so this would be nearly £15,500 .

To get more money I would need to carry out between 2 – 3 hours of work at £305 plus vat and we would require £1000 on account. This is over and above the £500 plus vat offered by your employer but of course they only pay this if you sign this Agreement

The first step would be for me to use your account of the background and turn it into a formal grievance so they have this tomorrow .

I do think that there is a failure to make reasonable adjustments too which is disability discrimination.

(I must say, I hope her legal documents are better than her emails.)

My concern here now is “what happens if it blows up.” It’s fine her saying she thinks they should pay me more but if they play hardball I’m ****. I have a credit card but no savings.

To some extent that’s the risk / you putting faith in the expert advice from (I assume) an employment law specialist. If they’re right you’ll have paid £1500 odd for advice that gets you £15,000

The disability discrimination bit is a trump card….. that might make them shit themselves to paying up.

If they’re good that 1k is an investment.

Did they give you a deadline? If so how long?

“They” being my employer? I’m wary of giving identifiable information in public but it’s not long.

I’m going through something similar. I can’t really offer much advice because I’m in a different country. But I got legal advice, they started negotiating. The company are open to it. Hopefully, I get something fair. My lawyer said I could ask if they would negotiate, or they could do it. By going directly from the lawyer it’s very much a negotiate or court ultimatum. And the lawyer listed all the ways they have impinged/violated employment law.

It’s a little stressful though.

Ah TUPE…. I took a lump sum payment and moved to Canada.

LONG POST BUT AS I SEE IT
I’m not entirely sure from the original posts but looks like offer is for sth like £10K which is your existing holiday pay, notice, etc., that I assume you’d be taxed on, and £3K on top as their settlement offer.
For your £500 (company paid) your solicitor has said that she thinks you are entitled to stat redundancy pay and I assume has provided the calculation of that. (I’ll admit, £15,500 sounded high to me on the basis of your original post of working there ‘well over a decade’ but depends what ‘well over’ means and how old you are so I’ll assume she’s right. You can calc it for yourself here)
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay
You get:
0.5 week’s pay for each full year worked when you’re under 22

1 week’s pay for each full year worked when you’re between 22 and 41

1.5 week’s pay for each full year worked when you’re 41 or older

and it’s capped at £640 a week approx and £20K total. But would be tax free, if made as a redundancy payment.
She also said you may have a disability claim. May being operative there. Only she and you really know how strong that is and what you may be entitled to as a result, and she doesn’t know yet until she looks into it which she understandably wants paying for. Only you know your appetite to fight that and also what effect it may have on your mental health of going through all the stress.
That knowledge / advice is yours now, that was provided to you as part of the £500 so yours to use as necessary. Important to understand that, you aren’t going behind her back or anything (it’s why going back 2 pages you can’t agree to a settlement without advice) – she’s advised you what they’ve offered is not what you are entitled to, and has been / will be paid for that advice.
IF IT WERE ME.
I’d be calling the solicitor today and (remember, she advises, you decide) telling her that what you want to do is go back to them and say that after her initial assessment you believe you are entitled to Stat redundancy on top of the offer they made. She also believes there is a case to be made for disability discrimination and is prepared to evaluate further. However, you would be prepared to waive your rights to pursue that if they increase their offer to cover the Stat Redundancy ie:
£10K in back pay, etc. (taxable)
£15K in stat redundancy
£3K to waive your rights to pursue further employment claims
The last bit – up to you if you want to bump this up to then be negotiated down again – but sounds like the first two are relatively easy to point to the calcs. I might be inclined to bump that to say £5K just for that reason.
I’d then be asking for an agreed reference as part of it, and finally asking for them to confirm their revised offer to you after which you need time to respond.
The ‘time is running out’ tactic…..tell them to sod off by doing this last bit. From that Martin Searle link

How long does your employee have to decide whether they want to accept the Settlement Agreement?
According to ACAS guidance you should give your employee a minimum of 10 days to decide whether they want to accept a Settlement Agreement. You should not act improperly by putting undue pressure on your employee to accept a Settlement Agreement. For example, by threatening any unfair course of action if they turn this down.

Tupe is supposed to be an equivalent role and you should’ve been consulted on that basis. That, plus arguments about reasonable adjustments should give you some leverage for negotiating a better deal. Good luck!

I’ve been laid off 7 times, I’ve experienced most strategies/approaches…

Once I know it’s occurring my aim is to get as much money as possible paid into my Bank Account.

Last time they ‘forgot’ to multiply my car allowance across my notice period and that we were 10 months into the bonus year (and my current assessment was “exceeds expectation”).

And as said about “into my Bank Account”, make sure they give you in writing the full breakdown and what’s taxable/NI etc.

I’ve also never bother with the legal offer, I’m happy I can negotiate as well as someone else can – and can do numbers in my head as they found out when ‘discussing’ the package.

As to wanting to ‘get one over on the man’, don’t even bother, not worth it.

so from that experience, what do you actually think the OP should be aiming for?

I’d say a months pay per year worked plus PILON if applicable would be the target but given the statutory minimum is 1 weeks pay per year then that is quite ambitious so wouldn’t be surprised to get knocked down a bit.

given the statutory minimum is 1 weeks pay per year

It’s not exactly, it escalates based on age as per previous post, up to 1.5w/yr if you’re over 41 (at the time of working that year)

But it is also capped at about £640 per week / 20k total, so yes, a month per year at your full rate is an ambitious start. And so a good one!!

I also thought further while raking leaves. If you are entitled to statutory then why didn’t they offer it initially. The pessimist says ‘maybe I’m not’, what if they then remove other bits as well…. aaargghhh, I’d better settle before the offer reduces!’  Which is what they want in a negotiation, for you to think your position is weak.

The realist says that they expect a negotiation and so they can give in to something they know or believe they owe anyway, so they won’t have offered anything ‘extra’ in reality. Stick to your guns on that, negotiate on the settlement money to not pursue the claim and let them knock you down on that.

Wow. Thanks all, Jon especially.

I spoke with the solicitor this morning before reading today’s updates here. After going through all my paperwork she’s said broadly what Jon said, she thinks they’re taking the piss. I’ve instructed them to go ahead and fight it.

If I’d read this first I might’ve been tempted to follow Jon’s advice and talk to work ahead of this but, to be honest, it’s worth a few hundred quid to me to make it someone else’s problem. It’s too easy to say something stupid and blow it. Besides, there’s a reason all this occurred in the first place, I’m considerably better but I’m still not well and I’m conscious of undoing the progress I’ve made.

I had a visit from a counsellor this morning also. He said he’s seen this sort of thing a lot and this is pretty standard practice.

Dont get hung up on the stick it to them mentality.

Its purely a how much cash can you pull transaction 

To echo other people comments

I’d focus on what you want to achieve, rather than win/loose

What I want I suppose is to be treated fairly. I don’t think that’s happened. I’ve been nothing but honest throughout the process, which has probably been my downfall. Lesson learned.

I’ve received communication from the solicitor, “here is your grievance to send off today.” It is word-for-word the explanation I sent them, which is broadly the unredacted version of the OP here, with this tacked on the end:

But I do rather feel that the settlement offer should have reflected their breaches of TUPE and the Equality Act.

All I have been offered is my contractual rights such as notice and accrued holiday but £3k to leave with no rights to bring claims after almost [years] of continuous service is insulting.

Please hear my formal grievance as soon s possible as all of this is making me feel mentally unwell and worthless .

I would like one of my work colleagues to accompany me to my grievance hearing to take notes .

I have a solicitor as I had to take legal advice on the Settlement Agreement and it may be it would be better to talk to her about a more realistic settlement offer . I’m not sure I could work for you now anyway after the way I have been treated

Kind regards

Typos as presented.

Am I making a huge mistake here?

Good luck op

Last sentence is unneeded.  

Basically JonV nails it.  What you are doing now is looking for a better settlement from them not to go to tribunal.  It will cost them a couple of thousand to go to tribunal and its in their interests to settle

Last sentence is unneeded.

Exactly my thought. It weakens my position surely? Up until now it’s them “offering” when I said that I wanted to try again.

What I want I suppose is to be treated fairly.

Forget that. Their aim is now to treat you as badly as they can get away with. Anything you do from here should be with that in mind

Last sentence – veiled threat to constructive dismissal action?

I’m slightly confused, shouldn’t the solicitor be writing to your employer on your behalf, notn drafting some words for you to send?

It’s a very long time since i went thru this but I seem to recall the solicitor dealing directly with my employer.

Tbh honest, I think that is not a great letter to be sending to your employer, but i may be misunderstanding where it fits in

When I was in a similar situation I did the negotiating but I was used to it as  a shop steward and had an employments rights advisor as my other half.  Makes it easier.

I would say now just let the dust settle and see what they come back with.  don’t do anything more without speaking to the lawyer first

I’m slightly confused, shouldn’t the solicitor be writing to your employer on your behalf, notn drafting some words for you to send?

It’s a very long time since i went thru this but I seem to recall the solicitor dealing directly with my employer.

Tbh honest, I think that is not a great letter to be sending to your employer, but i may be misunderstanding where it fits in

My thoughts as well.

I’m sure they will if you instruct them to. At £50-100 a letter.

But I do rather feel that the settlement offer should have reflected their breaches of TUPE and the Equality Act.

All I have been offered is my contractual rights such as notice and accrued holiday but £3k to leave with no rights to bring claims after almost [years] of continuous service is insulting.

Please hear my formal grievance as soon s possible as all of this is making me feel mentally unwell and worthless .

I would like one of my work colleagues to accompany me to my grievance hearing to take notes .

I have a solicitor as I had to take legal advice on the Settlement Agreement and it may be it would be better to talk to her about a more realistic settlement offer . I’m not sure I could work for you now anyway after the way I have been treated

Kind regards

That came from a solicitor? They actually sent work product out as poor as that for their client to use?

I wouldn’t be paying for that.

Nor would I be using it. The poor grammar, mixture of tenses, spelling mistakes and overly emotional statements really don’t look good.

I didn’t really want to join the thread as I have no knowledge or experience of employment law, however, as someone who used to write professional reports for government departments, that draft letter is very poor.

I agree with bensales comments entirely.

It needs to be dealing with the facts and the law. 

I agree as a solicitor’s letter it’s not well written. But it’s also not phrased as a solicitor’s letter, it is a suggested response to them written in the first person, etc. I’d be tempted to tidy it up, remove the ’emotional’ comments as others have called them (but maybe soften them to leave that implication of a further MH discrimination case?) and send it to them. And see what response comes back, before deciding if you want to spend further on getting them to write proper letters, which will cost. 

In fact, here you go, my version….

After taking advice from a solicitor, I am rejecting the offer you made on……

The settlement offer should have reflected your breaches of TUPE and the Equality Act. All your offer includes is my contractual rights such as notice and accrued holiday, and £3k to leave with no rights to bring claims after almost [years] of continuous service is not acceptable. Your offer should include my contractual rights, statutory redundancy which has been calculated at [insert here] as well as a reasonable offer in respect of me waiving my rights. I would suggest your offer of £3K is increased to [for OP to go as far as they dare] in this respect.

Please respond with your confirmation, otherwise I shall be seeking to hold a formal grievance meeting with you as soon as possible. I will be represented at this grievance meeting. As I’m sure you can understand, given my past experience, this process is further affecting my mental health so I am seeking to resolve this as efficiently as possible.

I have appointed a solicitor as I had to take legal advice on the Settlement Agreement, and if you wish I can arrange for you to speak directly to her about a more realistic settlement offer.

I agree that the original solicitor’s suggestion for the letter seemed inflammatory to me too.

I agree that the original solicitor’s suggestion for the letter seemed inflammatory to me too.

Maybe that was intentional?

I N R A T S but 8f they are offering that you leave under a NDA, aren’t they obliged to pay for your legal advice?

Worth say £500 even if not to see if you can get anything more out of them.

Think about the positives for you rather than getting revenge, best to move on and forget about them. 

Good luck. 

@Cougar perhaps so, but that’s not been consistent with my (reasonably extensive) experience of conflict resolution with solicitors in the past. Usually they’re trying to take the emotion out, rather than add it in.

Their lawyer likely much more expensive and better than yours. Personally I would just forget emotion and ask for 2-3x to walk away and sign whatever they want without hassle, with a good reference thrown into the deal. Basically if what you ask for is less than the hassle and legal fees they will face it is in their interest to accept. Move to a small co where you can add value and the people are nice, looks like most big co’s are getting ready to gut middle management.

I N R A T S but 8f they are offering that you leave under a NDA, aren’t they obliged to pay for your legal advice?

Yeah, tbh YSRATS

Last sentence is unneeded.

actually that might be the solicitor playing an intentional long game – I assume it was included because the OP made a remark that he’d want out.  IF they say “sorry our mistake, forget we asked, see you on Monday” then she is possibly positioning for him to resign and claim constructive dismissal on the basis of a breakdown in trust!

@twodogs – no I think the solicitor knows what she is doing!  First step *should* always be to follow the grievance procedure.  That’s should normally be the individual not the solicitor.  Might seem odd that she’s not formalising it – but that is playing them at their own game.   Probably more tribunals are lost because the company don’t follow the grievance procedure properly than because the original complaint was right.  If the solicitor writes or even you write in formal legal speak, then it will end up on another solicitors desk.  By following the grievance procedure it makes it easier for the company to **** up and then have to pay out.

OP: you might not want to upset the applecart but I would question the ethics of the £500 from employer is only paid if you sign a (the) settlement agreement.  IMO that’s not independent legal advice if it’s only paid if you comply.

To clear up any misconception your employer will not pay your legal fees. They will only pay to have a solicitor review the settlement agreement before you sign it to cover themselves so you cant later argue you signed something you didnt understand or put you at a disadvantage.

Dont assume they have lawyered up, at this stage a competant HR professional should be able to navigate a settlement agreement. They will want to avoid getting lawyers involved as at that point no one wins.

From their viewpoint its all a numbers game, you need to play that as well, getting what would be statutory redundancy and PILON is a given. Its how much you want on top to go away quietly. Remember the longer this drags on the more it costs them, if i was them id be working out how much it would cost in still paying your wages and HR and managerial time. Its in their interest to wrap it up quickly so you need to make it clear what your price is for them to exit you quickly and cleanly from the business.

Well, for better or worse my grievance is in. We’re pushing for breach of TUPE and discrimination under the Equality Act. I can’t see the second one sticking myself but I’m not a lawyer.

Work has replied expressing their disappointment, using language like “but I’m sure you’ll agree that…” which I’m filing under Nice Try. HR has requested a call with the solicitor tomorrow. My thinking now is that both the solicitor and HR have done this merry dance many times and the only party to gain from a messy divorce is the solicitors.

I can’t help but wonder whether getting rid was their game plan all along. Both employers’ head offices are pretty much next door to each other which makes me suspicious about some sort of matey deal at the top. Something was let slip in a Teams meeting regarding my current employer wanting access to my former employer’s client base, so maybe my old team is just considered collateral damage, they never really wanted us in the first place but had no choice. Though all of this of course pure speculation, I can’t prove any of it but it kind of stinks.