[Closed] Another war in Palestine

One thing this discussion illustrates is just how complicated and entrenched this conflict is

Very much this. I have Israeli friends and colleagues through work and visit every few months. Each time I'm there I learn a little bit more about the people, culture, and challenges and I still don't really understand the depth of it. I spoke to a friend in Tel Aviv this morning and there is one thing for sure - regardless of why or how this has happened it is having a very real affect on ordinary people over there. Most of them have grown up with conflict and are used to it, going to bomb shelters / safe spaces is almost second nature, but they are really worried about the current situation.

No it isn’t about religion, over three-quarters of Israel’s Jews define themselves as secular.

You can't write it out in those sorts of black and white terms, it's not as simple as that, or as cleanly defined. You simply can't can't remove the religious element of this conflict and pretend that's its solely about racism, or ethnicity and settlement- although it is about those things as well. It may suit a political perspective, or that religion is so embarrassingly  "olden times" for the 21st C, but for many of the people who are unwilling to support moves to peace on either side, [hatred of others] religion is front and centre of their reasoning.

I’m not saying someone is right or wrong, but the fact jewish people were mostly in what’s now israel 2000 years ago is surely a huge part of the reason why their descendants want to be there now?

Do you really not see a problem with that?

You simply can’t can’t remove the religious element of this conflict

I wouldn't. But I think it plays a very small part. Racism and colonialism* is what lies at the heart imo, not religion. And not least because the overwhelming majority of Israelis don't consider themselves religious.

Edit: And of course geopolitics/scarce resources.

I'm Jewish though not religious.

We have lots of family/friends  in Israel,  today I watched the funeral of the British 20 year old solider who was murdered yesterday by terrorists not fighters or militants TERRORISTS.    I know his parents, watching their faces today was beyond heart-breaking.

The girl that was murdered by terrorists and put on show naked then spat and kicked /250 party goers murdered  that's an act of terrorism, how can anyone support that - there will be hundreds of awful stories coming out in the days  the days ahead.

You can talk to the cows come home how wrong you think Israel is - however they are not terrorists in anyway they don't parade dead bodies  or parade naked teenage girls who have probably been raped.

No war ever ends happily for any side, that's the nature of war.

however they are not terrorists in anyway

I'm not sure everyone would agree, if you look at the number of civilians that have been killed by israel, they are certainly in a dubious area when it comes to war crimes. I'm not sure if that falls into the bucket of terrorism or not, the definition is apparently

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I don't know if the label is helpful, but its not a million miles away

EVERYONE here is as horrified by the actions we witnessed as you are, EVERYONE

But we are also dismayed by the actions of the Israeli government and people that we have all been made acutely aware of that has gone on for the last 60+ years.

People are now demanding answers for those actions over the last 60 years and the only  response we are getting is 'Look at what has happened yesterday to those killed or kidnapped'.

As I said previously Palestine is the last colony of the great western powers, do you not think it is strange to talk of “settlers” and their rights in 2023?

And why the desperate need to maintain one final western colony? Because of the huge importance of the Middle East to the western powers.

So, if the whole idea of Israel is to set up a Western Colony to subdue the Muslims, why did the Brits try to prevent Jewish settlers moving to Israel after WW2 & why  did we then leave a country we were in control of & when war erupted in 1948 why did the Western powers impose an arms embargo on all belligerents despite Israel being attacked on all sides. I don't think the historical narrative really supports your theory.

I’m Jewish though not religious.

I'm Jewish and religious. Also with family and friends in Israel.

Agree with the Hamas part, not 100% with the Palestine part. Israel certainly aren't blameless here, sadly there's a lot of problems on both sides.

While admitting to not having read this whole thread, or even most of it, there seems to be a lot of talk about blame and history without much thought about what to do now?

Anyone got ideas for solutions? I believe Hamas call for the slaughter of all Israelis (and Jews? not sure) and will not be content with a 2 state solution. These are people who hand out sweets and cheer after "natural response's" like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Itamar_attack

There is years of festering hatred on both sides, since well before the state of Israel was founded. Many innocents on both sides caught up in it.

OK it is Shakespeare's, but Im feeling theres irony in Shylock's speech when placed in the Palestinian perspective.

If you prick us with a pin, don’t we bleed? If you tickle us, don’t we laugh? If you poison us, don’t we die? And if you treat us badly, won’t we try to get revenge? If we’re like you in everything else, we’ll resemble you in that respect

Anyone got ideas for solutions?

the 2 state solution seems like the most likely to work - I think a secular solution is unlikely to work for a group who've been so roundly abused over the years - it feels like a sliperly slope.

Maybe the rest of the world could apply enough sanctions to the countries who aren't complying to the 2-state solution (on both sides) to encourage them to comply? Israel is very connected from an economy perspective, and would do badly if cut off from the rest of the world.

Israel certainly commits war crimes and it certainly carries out collective punishments, both of which can reasonably be described as terrorism. And Israel definitely tries to strike terror into the hearts of the Palestinian people with their regular one-sided onslaughts and turkey shoots into Gaza.

For that reason I consider the IDF to be a terrorist organisation which engages in horrific war crimes and violates international law. I guess the question is whether Hamas is also a terrorist organisation? Well it certainly also engages in horrific war crimes and violates international law, as we have seen recently.

Although it has been less than a year since the UK decided that Hamas as an organisation should be declared terrorist. I guess that must reflect Hamas's fairly low level of terrorism until quite recently for that to take such a long time.

today I watched the funeral of the British 20 year old solider who was murdered yesterday by terrorists not fighters or militants TERRORISTS. I know his parents, watching their faces today was beyond heart-breaking.

I can truly believe how beyond heartbreaking that must have been for those close to him, but the death of a soldier of an occupying force does not necessarily equate with terrorism. It sounds like a legitimate target which is why it isn't necessarily classed as terrorism under international law.

Although I appreciate that such subtleties mean nothing when you have lost someone close to you.

Palestinians also bury their dead - those that are killed, including children, by the IDF. Their tears are just as real as Israeli tears. But yet despite representing far far greater numbers they are extremely unlikely to have any connection with anyone on stw.

Edit: Apologies, it is just under two years since the UK decided to declare the whole of Hamas a terrorist organisation, not one as I had claimed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59346441

Two states I can see as Israel dominating a dependent and impoverished Palestinian state. Jews live happily with goys all over the world, why can't Israelis live with the locals as equals? If people don't change you will always get what you got. The hasideem seem happy enough opposing zionism and living in Brooklyn and Stamford Hill with allsorts and they have great hats.

The girl that was murdered by terrorists and put on show naked then spat and kicked /250 party goers murdered  that’s an act of terrorism, how can anyone support that – there will be hundreds of awful stories coming out in the days  the days ahead.

You can talk to the cows come home how wrong you think Israel is – however they are not terrorists in anyway they don’t parade dead bodies  or parade naked teenage girls who have probably been raped.

Im sorry, I understand that this is an incredibly emotive subject, and that some people here may well have some personal involvement via relatives, friends etc, but we must be mindful of not obscuring facts here. It has been well documented that Israelis soldiers have committed unspeakable acts and atrocities, including rape, torture, and the desecration of dead bodies. Such events are rarely spoken about in most of the western media, but these events have and continue to take place. I am not for a moment trying to diminish the evils of Hamas, before anyone tries to accuse me of such. But we must remain as objective as possible, to try to understand and not sink to base hatred and anger. To see some of the videos that are being disseminated, makes me feel physically sick. As a Muslim, I have nothing but utter contempt for the sick twisted bastards that are doing this, and terrorising innocent people. When I speak of compassion, empathy and understanding, I know that this can only go so far. As a Muslim, I totally denounce the actions of these individuals; they do not act in the name of Islam and decent people everywhere must not allow them to be associated with the religion and culture. Therefore I think it is important to distinguish Hamas from Islam. They lost their right to call themselves Muslims the moment they decided to murder and terrorise innocent people. For them, there will be no martyrdom.

My wife is Jewish. We are now very concerned about 'retaliatory' actions by ignorant zealots here in London. We live in an area with a prominent Jewish community. I often have to deal with low-level anti-Semitism from ignorant individuals, but the idea that someone might want to kill my wife simply because of her heritage, is one that fills me with anguish. The knowledge that there are so many people in our world, today mourning their loved ones who did nothing wrong, is so upsetting I can't put it into words. Like many, I feel powerless and helpless. So let's all take a step back and have a think about how our words can help, or hurt others. Let's be guided by our compassion and humanity, and not our rage.

Jews live happily with goys all over the world

You must have skipped over the pogroms. And the whole holocaust thing. And the post-1948 expulsion of Jews from Arab countries. Actually the track record of Jews living as a minority among gentiles is a pretty bleak one.

And the ultra-Orthodox in London and NYC that oppose Zionism for religious reasons that you seem to be enthusiastic about are relatively small in number, and not a shining example of multiculturalism, and generally not great people - not because they oppose Zionism, but because they are like all religious fundamentalists - crackers.

the 2 state solution seems like the most likely to work

A 2 state solution in which both states are viable and retain their character would require significant population transfer and no right of return for Palestinians. And a 1 state solution does not offer enough security or anything else for anyone.

OK it is Shakespeare’s, but Im feeling theres irony in Shylock’s speech when placed in the Palestinian perspective.

Deity on a velocipede. Is bringing the most notorious anti-Semitic caricature in the Western canon into the dicussion supposed to shed light?

@politecameraaction thank you. We’re truly into **** me they walk among us stuff now.

Two states? Seen several states in SA apartheid, they called them bantustans. That didn't last so well. Yep, my Israeli rellies see the hasideem as 'parasites' because they wouldn't do military service. I'm an atheist but if you want a big pure dose of religion, they are the boys. Otherwise you're in the territory of 'wrong jew' nonsense etc etc.

How much do you guys think this is helping, and not hurting?

BillMCFull Member<br />Two states?

I doubt there's any chance of two states anymore, its been attempted for the previous 35 years and come to **** all.

Humanity is so messed up. This sort of generational hatred is self perpetuating.

It makes the relative peace in NI all the more remarkable and precious.

I’m wondering when the wests sanctions of it chums in Qatar for hosting the hamas government are starting. I suspect I will have a long wait because hypocrisy and double standards are the forte of the west

So, if the whole idea of Israel is to set up a Western Colony to subdue the Muslims, why did the Brits try to prevent Jewish settlers moving to Israel after WW2 & why did we then leave a country we were in control of & when war erupted in 1948 why did the Western powers impose an arms embargo on all belligerents despite Israel being attacked on all sides. I don’t think the historical narrative really supports your theory.

That is a perfectly valid question. Because geopolitics changes, often massively depending on how things develop.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire Britian and France moved in establishing North Africa and the Middle East as regions under their control. They maintained a traditional colonial presence in the region until the end of WW2 changed all that.

At the end of WW2 the only independent country in Africa was Ethiopia which had been liberated from Italian rule. However WW2 had made the whole concept of colonial rule in Africa and the Middle East totally unacceptable.

Britian, and France somewhat more reluctantly in the case of Algeria, accepted this. All the more so as the United States, which had no significant territorial empire and had emerged from WW2 as the most powerful nation of earth, supported decolonisation by Britain and France.

That didn't however mean that British and French neocolonial interests could not be served. Britian did not have any particular interest in Palestine as at that time Palestine had very little to offer the British.

What did interest Britian much more though was countries such as Arabia where they established the pro-British Saudi dictatorship, and Iran where they organised the coup which overthrew the democratically elected government and installed the pro-Western dictatorship of the Shah of Iran. Arabia and Iran obviously had something which Palestine didn't have.

And pissing off Arabs and Persians, who you want to serve your interests, over Palestine, was never going to be a clever mood.

During this postwar period France took a slightly different attitude. Partly no doubt because a Jewish homeland after the Holocaust had huge left-wing support, there was clearly an emotional connection. No one really bothered to think of the consequences for the Palestinian people, it wasn't them who had been murdered on an industrial scale by hate-filled Europeans, so they didn't matter - the French Vichy government was implicit in the holocaust.

So at that time France was Israel closest friend, ally, and biggest arms supplier. The United States certainly wasn't.

In fact the United States could be quite hostile towards Israel as it was when it opposed Israel, France, and Britian, over their attack on Egypt over Suez, which was a blatant act of war and imperialism.

Everything changed following the 6 Day War. Oil prices quadrupled overnight. The United States which had plenty of oil fields of their own but found it easier to import much cheaper Middle Eastern oil suddenly started to see the region as vital to their interests.

France placed an arms embargo on Israel and the United States became Israel's main arms supplier. Soviet influence in the region grew. As Israel's treatment of Palestinians became apparent the Left started to abandon Israel and also to realise that Palestinians did matter after all.

Hostility towards the West started to increase, partly in response to the treatment of Palestinian but also because of neocolonialism. The West maintained a strong pro-Western dictatorship in oil rich Iraq but lost oil rich Libya and Iran. The situation became more and more critical during which time Israel's importance to Western neocolonialism constantly increased. Eventually the Left pretty much abandoned Israel and as it lurched evermore to the right and increased its brutal repression of the Palestinian people.

Today United States governments are prepared to pour $billions into Israel and give them 100% support whatever they do, despite (iirc) 41% of Americans having a negative view of Israel, quite simply because Israel serves their interests.

The United States and their Western allies want a stronger and more powerful Israel. Which is why they support armed colonial settlers, many of them Europeans and Americans, who are currently taking land from the indigenous people of Palestine. It is blatant and naked colonialism.

Tell me you've spent an hour on Wikipedia without telling me you've spent an hour on Wikipedia.

Because geopolitics changes, often massively depending on how things develop.

Such insight.

This thread provides a platform for (some of) STW's regular political posters to attempt to 'dominate the airwaves'.
None of their comments will make an iota of difference; the huge chunks of verbiage they post do not inform the debate.
It's a bit like the self-professed know it all kid in school - hand always up; please miss/sir, listen to me.
Israel and Gaza has been a festering political problem for decades which has never been anywhere close to a resolution.
Now the two sides are further apart than ever.
There will be a high number of civilian deaths on both sides and Israel are likely to conduct 'surgical' political assassinations.
Israel is a nuclear power with the ability to use small scale nuclear weapons - they could have against Egypt but didn't.
Which countries in the middle east stand to benefit?
Is there a hidden hand of Russia/China/North Korea? Probably.
Keyboard warriors on STW are just an irrelevance on such an important subject.
With that, I'm out so let the verbiage and pointless posting continue.

Its a thread where a block feature would be beneficial to avoid having to scroll past posts made by some posters, who you know what they are going to do and say, before theyve done it. There'd be no missing out on healthy discussion, only improving it, there's challenging views given far better by other contributors. 

yes i think a block or timeout capability is needed....
a particular low point is arguing the toss with one of our members whose just been through some scary shit with rockets flying over head and is trying to get back home.....

as for the wider implications on this war, just take a look at our news.  dominated by it.  I've seen very little about ukraine.  tbh even the Labour conference is a foot note on the beeb.  I don't for a second think hamas just decided alone to do a full scale invasion and how was it possible for them to stockpile so many munitions and to do it under Israeli noses.

it is interesting to see how the other middle East countries respond  I think most see Iran as a threat, and will likely have a better clue than any of us keyboard warriors of Iranian involvement.  that leaves them in potentially a weird dilemma that in supporting hamas they end up strengthening Iran, which I doubt they will want to do.

Tell me you’ve spent an hour on Wikipedia without telling me you’ve spent an hour on Wikipedia.

Nah, more likely ChatGPT working overtime.

Stay safe.

a particular low point is arguing the toss with one of our members whose just been through some scary shit with rockets flying over head and is trying to get back home…..

That's the joy of holding luxury beliefs, you can wax lyrical about what others 'should' with ideal world solutions dreamed up in the safety of your own home without ever facing risk or actually having to put in any of the hard yards.

This thread is good for bringing out the sock puppets and cranks who've never had to face more than a little boo boo from falling off the swings.

If you think someone needs a timeout report the post and see if the mods agree with you.

I’d just like to thank @brownperson for their very balanced contribution to this thread.

100% this!

This thread provides a platform for (some of) STW’s regular political posters to attempt to ‘dominate the airwaves’.
None of their comments will make an iota of difference; the huge chunks of verbiage they post do not inform the debate.
It’s a bit like the self-professed know it all kid in school – hand always up; please miss/sir, listen to me.
Israel and Gaza has been a festering political problem for decades which has never been anywhere close to a resolution.

and this!

a particular low point is arguing the toss with one of our members whose just been through some scary shit with rockets flying over head and is trying to get back home…..

That’s the joy of holding luxury beliefs, you can wax lyrical about what others ‘should’ with ideal world solutions dreamed up in the safety of your own home without ever facing risk or actually having to put in any of the hard yards.

This thread is good for bringing out the sock puppets and cranks who’ve never had to face more than a little boo boo from falling off the swings.

Also signaling the important and insightful post that @brownperson has made here, thank you for the input and your contribution.

Interesting to hear William Hague this morning warning Israel from falling into the trap set by Hamas by undertaking a ground assault on Gaza as revenge.

Estimates on BBC2 Newsnight last night stated that a ground assault in Gaza would lead to upwards of 20,000 Gaza civilian deaths.

This thread provides a platform for (some of) STW’s regular political posters to attempt to ‘dominate the airwaves’.
None of their comments will make an iota of difference; the huge chunks of verbiage they post do not inform the debate.

Do you mean regular political posters like yourself?

This thread won't bring peace in Palestine but global opinions concerning Palestine are slowly changing massive:

"More than half of Americans (55%) have favorable views of Israel, while 41% say they have unfavorable views of the country."

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/07/11/american-views-of-israel/

41% of Americans having an unfavourable view of Israel is quite staggering, not least when you consider the intense pro-Israeli propaganda which they are exposed to by both the mass media and their governments, especially right-wing governments such as the Trump administration.

This has been a long process and there is little doubt that among other things social media which didn't exist 40 years ago now plays a part, as people learn truth about Palestine and the root causes.

The reference to the death of a "British" soldier, tragic as it undoubtedly is, all deaths are of course tragic, shines a light on much of what this conflict is really about. There are no British soldiers fighting in Palestine, only Israeli soldiers.

The need to emphasis that the soldier had British nationality was obviously to create a feeling that this conflict is "them" against "us". A colonial mindset where the people whose land is being taken are savages who are killing the civilised British who would never act in such a barbaric way.

This however is 2023 and this colonial mindset and the talk of the rights of "settlers" to live peacefully is losing traction. A guess silencing or dismissing the debate is one way to push back. In Labour Party Conference 2023 any meaningful debates concerning Palestine are banned, beyond expressing total support for Israel.

As is any reference to Israel being an apartheid state as recognised by Amnesty International, and even now the United Nations.

That’ll be very difficult for Israel to justify on the world stage as a proportionate response.

I disagree, it's not difficult to justify in the slightest; the challenge is will other nations take it seriously or with any validity?

And that all depends on the respective nations press, political leanings and relationships with influential nations.

it is interesting to see how the other middle East countries respond  I think most see Iran as a threat, and will likely have a better clue than any of us keyboard warriors of Iranian involvement.  that leaves them in potentially a weird dilemma that in supporting hamas they end up strengthening Iran, which I doubt they will want to do.

I don't think it will be much of a dilemma for many. Qatar/Iran/Syria/Hezbollah have their own arc, and that's more or less it. No state is really championing the cause of Palestinians. I wonder what ****stan is up to now? For them, obviously, Palestine is a parallel to Jammu and Kashmir.

From the United Nations:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702

"There is today in the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since 1967 a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system, that privileges the 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers living in the 300 illegal Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank,” said Michael Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.

Israel, he said, conforms to the definition as a “political regime which so intentionally and clearly prioritizes fundamental political, legal and social rights to one group over another, within the same geographic unit on the basis of one’s racial-national-ethnic identity”.

And most important of all, it is a "war crime".

"Apartheid is not, sadly, a phenomenon confined to the history books on southern Africa,” Mr. Lynk said, in his report to the Human Rights Council.

“The 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court came into law after the collapse of the old South Africa. It is a forward-looking legal instrument which prohibits apartheid as a crime against humanity today and into the future, wherever it may exist.”

As it exists today the entire Israeli government are war criminals, not to put too finer point on it.

Interesting to hear William Hague this morning warning Israel from falling into the trap set by Hamas by undertaking a ground assault on Gaza as revenge.

Estimates on BBC2 Newsnight last night stated that a ground assault in Gaza would lead to upwards of 20,000 Gaza civilian deaths.

What is very worrying is the language that all western governments are presently using. James Cleverley certainly wasn't putting any caveats on Israel's response on radio 4 just now, which I'm sure will be taken as a green light by Netanyahu as a free pass to do whatever, no matter how extreme.

They're already imposing 'collective punishment' on the Palestinian people, which is against international law, by stopping water, electricity, food and medical supplies. Would anyone put it past Netanyahu to mount a full scale ground assault into the Gaza Strip? Its certainly looking that way. They've 'called up' over 300,000 reservists on top of their already enormous military.

This is exactly what the nutters at the top of Hamas want and the civilian death toll if that happens just doesn't bear thinking about. Its a pretty depressing prospect. Just imagine being a normal person in the Gaza strip with nowhere to go and the prospect of a full scale war on the near horizon

As an aside I thought that the body count in Israel was interesting, 900 Israelis and 1500 Hamas militants, so not quite the massacre by the militants as has been portrayed (IMHO)......

I absolutely agree this is going in a really really bad direction

But is it right to just assume they are all 'nutters'? and as interesting and horrible as all the contextual history of the region is, I think there is more to it.  Using past misdeeds to justify future ones isn't how we (humans) should live otherwise its never ending spiral of violence.  The nutters aren't in charge, sane cold calculating people trying to gain power are in charge and using things like religion and transgression to create the nutters.  The nutters are the pawns that are easily manipulated and made to do horrific stuff.  Its actually much easier to come to terms with horrific actions when we think they are planned and perpetrated by nutters.

I agree with the un report quoted above. But there is more chance of me winning the lottery twice than the security council actually doing anything to bring Israel into line with its international legal obligations.

We're not immune to this here. When I was 18 (late 80s) i used to work in a pub in Manchester with a Protestant bloke from Belfast.

When he found out my Dad was from Leinster he wouldn't talk to me. Apparently he hated everyone in the Republic of Ireland because they left the lights on in WW2 and the Germans used them as navigation to bomb Belfast. He was the same age as me, i.e. born in 1971. Such ingrained bullshit is not uncommon

From the United Nations:

As if anything the UN says has any impact on any state or quasi-state actor? I mean; China is a signatory of the UN Human Rights charter, as is Iran, being a signatory of the Geneva Conventions didn't stop US service men and women from torturing prisoners in Abu Ghraib, the UN Genocide Convention didn't stop the genocide in Rwanda. Hamas backed by Iran and Qatar will, like Israel, doubtless ignore any sort of rules when it comes to this round of warfare, indeed the raping of women and shooting of civilians has already started (continued). I'm happy to blame Netanyahu when it comes to his part in the increasingly depressing breakdown of rules based order, and terrorists like Haniyeh 'exiled' in comfort in Qatar have never paid attention to them unless they play a part in lip service to his cause. 

A pox on all their houses. 

No winners in war, just more hate. Our focus these days should be on all saving the world, and not killing each other.

JeZ

Hopefully future generations on both sides will realise their made up deity didn't promise them rights to any land and that we're all the same, trying to live this one life as best we can and it's better to get on together than have these made up divisions of beliefs and land between us.

As an aside I thought that the body count in Israel was interesting, 900 Israelis and 1500 Hamas militants, so not quite the massacre by the militants as has been portrayed (IMHO)……

Jesus christ - 900 people not a massacre enough for you?!

Jesus christ – 900 people not a massacre enough for you?!

Maybe I didn't phrase that very well, 900 dead is apalling, but I was surprised that 1500 Hamas miltants died doing it.  The Israeli defence forces would appear to have put up more resistance than it first appeared.

but I was surprised that 1500 Hamas miltants died doing it.

I expect many were either encircled by Israeli forces or just decided to stay and fight to the death, given the alternative of retreating to Gaza and waiting to be bombed

As an aside, it's slightly worrying to see the increased police presence on the streets here in a Jewish area of Manchester.

Last time there was a ground war in Gaza there was a sharp uptick in anti-semitism in the UK. I was walking along at one point when a convoy of cars bearing large Palestine flags came racing down the road at high speed... this instance was just a statement but could easily have been an actual attack.

Not nice to think I am likely to be abused or attacked simply because I share a religion with the Israeli leadership (who are not religious )

As an aside, it’s slightly worrying to see the increased police presence on the streets here in a Jewish area of Manchester.

my mate's kids go to a Jewish primary school in a fairly jewish area of north london. There is always security guards on the gates, whenever any kids are in the school - a significant difference to any other schools I'm aware of in the country. There's an extra level of concern from the community and so it doesn't surprise me that it extends to more coppers around too

Hamas terrorist shared sick photos of Israeli grandma’s body on her Facebook after butchering her…

militants or terrorists?

and yet BBC refuses to call them terrorists or even report on this story !

Woman at pro-Palestine rally in Brighton calls Hamas attacks on Israel 'beautiful and inspiring' - she should be arrested !

keep your left wing ideology’s coming - keyboard warriors !