Er… have you not been listening to all the Conservative MPs from the area over the last week? They are not happy with the PM… to put it mildly.

Not surprised, most of the sets that weren’t already blue and are now are the ones that will be hit hardest by both no deal Brexit and this.

I wonder if the Northern Research Group are going to flex any muscle?

apparently ow government are saying that £60m is still on the table. the rationale being that they can’t give any more to Manchester per capita head than than merseyside or lanchashire of c £8 per head of population.

the incompetence of their messaging and negotiation is quite staggering, setting aside the fact that they could provide the money if they wanted to and have been spaffing billions on private sector contracts that are failing left right and centre

like binners, i’m genuinely angry and can’t remember being so angry about politics since thatcher when i was young and full of teenage lefty piss & vinegar.

i don’t live in manchester, but i work there, i go out there, i love the city and a huge chunk of my clients (leisure & hospitality sector) are in the GM area. theyre desperate and at their wits end, theyre scared and angry and feel guilty that they can’t help their staff more and pretty much everyone of them thinks they won’t survive until the spring

i’m not advocating manchester should be a special case, i’m sure it’s the same in merseyside, lanchasire and soon yorkshire and the rest of the north.

it clearly apparent that they genuinely don’t give a fack about the north or the communities that have spent so long rebuilding and recovering form the damage that thatcher did

yours, angry from high peak

You’ve really got to stop thinking of this mob as the Tory party, they are a coalition of the Brexit party, UKIP, the BMP and some remnants of the Conservative party.

Perhaps we should start refering to them as the ‘Two Nation’ Tory Party

You can call them what you want, but they’re the Conservative Party. They’ve always been like this. Sometimes they can hide their true nature, but it’s always there underneath should you care to look, and comes to the fore in times like these.

Was on the 6pm telly news not the website

And Radio4. Don’t know what “on the table” means. A hurried (vague) whisper from a cabinet office press person, I suspect… withdrawing it hasn’t gone down well with anyone.

Well that’s a few north west Tory MPs retraining in cyber come the next election

Made me chuckle…

You can call them what you want, but they’re the Conservative Party. They’ve always been like this

at least the thatcher and major governments had some ideological premise to their actions, this bunch of clowns couldn’t even spell trickle-down

They just ****ed us big time as an example to everyone else!!

Exactly what I said to my OH about three hours ago. ‘Take back control’ => obey, citizen. Throw a few povvy Northerners under the bus to set an example so that the rest know to toe the line. JRM’s knob must be red raw.

In other news, the Earth has today developed a slightly eccentric orbit. It’s George Orwell spinning in his grave.

MP, meant Bojo.

had some ideological premise to their actions, this bunch of clowns couldn’t even spell trickle-down

Trickle down 😂😂😂 ideological premise 😂😂😂
It’s just that this lot have realised they don’t need to justify what they do. People will vote them in again, as they turn the rage back on the victims.

Just catching up with the news on this and am finding it hard to understand the government’s position on this.

I sincerely hope this gets sorted for everyone affected.

Gauss1777

You can tell yourself that if you like but if you can’t tell the difference between Cameron, May and this lot then there’s no hope for you. There’s a difference between ideological differences and pure criminality.

I’m guessing your a Corbynista, if you are you lost and are partly responsible for this s**show. Watching Andy Burnham these last few days is just a reminder of how terribly Labour did at the last 2 elections. Had Burnham been the leader then I don’t think May would have had the guts to call an election.

There’s more than a few Conservative MP’s who withdrew their support and lost the whip, unfortunately only to be replaced by Brexit cast offs and other far right headbangers.

Labour’s little experiment with Marxism failed comprehensively and was never going to succeed in the UK. The only hope for the UK is to find where the centre has gone. Blanket hatred of Tories might make you feel better but you are just biting off your nose to spite your face, you’re just handing the nation on a plate to Boris, Cummings and JRM.

Burnham is showing true statesmanship, we need more like him.

Burnham is showing true statesmanship, we need more like him.

Yep.

Worryingly, it crossed my mind how much better this crisis would have been handled with Thatcher in charge. That’s how badly Boris is doing.

@inkster: I don’t think we agreed on much, if anything at all. Never will.

Worryingly, it crossed my mind how much better this crisis would have been handled with Thatcher in charge.

Thatcher as the solution reminds me of 1984:
But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

To think the negotiation prowess on distance lay here is also being put to good use representing us all in Brexit negotiations. 😕

I’m guessing your a Corbynista, if you are you lost and are partly responsible for this s**show. Watching Andy Burnham these last few days is just a reminder of how terribly Labour did at the last 2 elections. Had Burnham been the leader then I don’t think May would have had the guts to call an election.

If Burnham had run a better campaign (which wouldn’t be difficult) then more people would’ve voted for him, so stop blaming others for his mistakes. It’s pleasing that he seems to be doing better in his current job.

Labour’s little experiment with Marxism failed comprehensively and was never going to succeed in the UK.

Please, get a grip.

gauss1777
Free Member

Trickle down 😂😂😂 ideological premise 😂😂😂

Ah now, be fair, trickle down absolutely does happen. It’s just that it’s happening at the same time as the River of Up.

I think the trickle down is yellow and coming from Boris, along with shut down and double down, shame there’s no lock down.

Trickle down 😂😂😂 ideological premise 😂😂😂

the point i was trying to make, unsuccessfully as it turns out, is even though i was wholeheartedly opposed the thatcher thatcher, at least they believed in something. all be it a widely discredited economic theory that never had a chance of achieving any form of social or economic equality

this lot believe in noting other than furthering their own and their cronies needs and wants. from listening to interviews with the old tory grandies like clarke and hee=seltine, it appears they feek the same

Worryingly, it crossed my mind how much better this crisis would have been handled with Thatcher in charge

Depends which Thatcher you got, if it’s the scientist with a phenomenal work ethic who picked talent for their cabinet then you no doubt would be in a better place. If you got the person who abandoned those who she didn’t understand or relate to then it’s another. Doubt the current use of consultants would have been tolerated either way.

Let’s face it, very few people rate the current government even their own MP’s don’t

Gauss1777,

“@inkster: I don’t think we agreed on much, if anything at all. Never will.”

Seriously? I’ve spent the last few months on here campaigning against racism and unconscious bias, to a degree that has probably bored some to death. Haven’t had a look at your previous posts but I’m assuming you’re not a racist and if that is the case then you might want to re think that comment.

You come across as intolerant, Hating all conservatives isn’t going to get us anywhere, finding a consensus and re establishing some centre ground might.

Remember, there’s always a danger that you’ll end up epitomising what you despise.

See that video up there? That’s the exact moment that the tories decided they’ve lost the north. Up til then, they were still pretending to work in their interests, still bothering to try to make a bogeyman out of Burnham.

But Manchester and its surrounds just made the switch from “place we don’t really care about but which might give us some MPs if we at least fake it a bit and tell the right lies” to “Place that won’t give us any MPs, so we will shit on it and not even bother to pretend otherise”

Nothing new in this of course but you don’t usually see it happen in realtime. Good luck folks.

Seriously? I’ve spent the last few months on here campaigning against racism and unconscious bias, to a degree that has probably bored some to death. Haven’t had a look at your previous posts but I’m assuming you’re not a racist and if that is the case then you might want to re think that comment.

Seriously. I was just trying to save each of us a waste of time discussing/arguing when we’ll likely never agree on much. Well done on campaigning against racism, but none of that is new; some of us have been ‘woke’ for a long time now. The idea that Labour dallied with Marxism is laughable. If only they had.

You come across as intolerant, Hating all conservatives

This part is true. I’d not describe myself as a Corbynista, but there are worse things to be thought of as.

We were wondering how the Labour Party was going to win back the red wall seats

Boris just gift wrapped them all with extra bows and ribbons

You can just feel the anger up here. And that’s just going to get worse and worse with every business failure and every lost job. Of which, unfortunately, there are going to be many

He’s lost his own supporters

https://twitter.com/manctories/status/1318595729422770176?s=12

Ransos,

Cornyn styled himself like a Marxist, the Trotsky hat was a bit of a give away. For most people what you see is what you get, same with JRM who goes to Goebels tailor and Hitler’s hairdressers. These are the aesthetic choices that politicians make.

If it looks like a ….. it probably is a …..

Cornyn spent the last few years re treading the ground that Michael Foot did in the 80’s. Get a grip you say? I think you’re the one pulling a no handed wheelie.

Agree that Burnham could have run a better campaign but not sure how you can assert that I am blaming others for his mistakes? I’m blaming Cornyn, his acolytes and these plonkers that nominated him for their own mistakes and handing the country on a plate to a bunch of fascists.

Cornyn got in because of the way party leadership elections got extended to the party membership, same with Boris. Its called the minority effect, where a tiny proportion of the electorate get to second guess MP’s who got elected by the entire electorate. Such mechanisms give party members a priveledge over the general population, undermining democracy by installing more extreme and partisan leaders than was previously the case when elected MP’s made the decision. I’ve mentioned this before but so many people just dont get it. It ties the hands of more moderate candidates like Burnham.

Oh… I forgot, Labour lost the election but won a moral victory didn’t they! Are you Richard Burgon posting under a pseudonym? Playing monkey tennis whilst pulling that no-hander?

We were wondering how the Labour Party was going to win back the red wall seats

Boris just gift wrapped them all with extra bows and ribbons

Given how the election played out I really thought there would be a strong Northern voice in the Tory Party but it doesn’t seem so. The north have been well shafted. It’s too early to say we all saw it coming  I just hope the north doesn’t forget and never vote Tory again.

He’s lost his own supporters

He lost them a while ago, he has one interest and one interest only which is “get Brexit done” and this is almost done. After that he will linger around till he is displaced and shy off into the background with his millions and watch while the country burns.

This event with Manchester is of almost no interest to him and is probably only serving as a good distraction to the Brexit catastrophe we are headed towards in a few weeks (yes, weeks, we crash out without a deal in 9 weeks).

Burnham will get his money

Johnson is king of the u-turns after all

Between johnsons mumbling & desperately looking at his notes it was obvious he didn’t really know what had been decided

Johnson needs that Press Secretary ASAP doing these kind of things

Even the Johnson idolising chopper thinks it was a ridiculous mistake by the PM

Politics is crazy right now. One Tory MP just told me: "We are on the cusp of having Andy Burnham carried shoulder-high through the streets of Manchester.
"He has demonstrated courage and principle, hope and determination and a spirit that the British people can be proud of."🤷‍♂️

— Christopher Hope📝 (@christopherhope) October 20, 2020

The reporting on Burnham’s position, especially on BBC outlets, has not emphasized what he’s been campaigning for: a financial support package in keeping with the tier 3 restrictions.

It is good to see him making a noise.

I’m guessing your a Corbynista, if you are you lost and are partly responsible for this s**show. Watching Andy Burnham these last few days is just a reminder of how terribly Labour did at the last 2 elections. Had Burnham been the leader then I don’t think May would have had the guts to call an election.

There’s more than a few Conservative MP’s who withdrew their support and lost the whip, unfortunately only to be replaced by Brexit cast offs and other far right headbangers.

Labour’s little experiment with Marxism failed comprehensively and was never going to succeed in the UK. The only hope for the UK is to find where the centre has gone. Blanket hatred of Tories might make you feel better but you are just biting off your nose to spite your face, you’re just handing the nation on a plate to Boris, Cummings and JRM.

well said sir

We were wondering how the Labour Party was going to win back the red wall seats

Whilst Burnham is acting more like the Labour leader than the Labour leader we might end up somewhere good from this.

But he’s not the leader – so gaining the red wall voters disgruntled anger is only temporary.

Watching Andy Burnham these last few days is just a reminder of how terribly Labour did at the last 2 elections

Or more pertinently you could compare him to the current relevant hopeless Labour leadership?

Doesn’t matter. There are many local elections for Labour to use to build and demonstrate building support, long before we got to an election that determines the government and PM. A Labour figure standing up for his area will help do this. Oh, and take it to the Starmer thread Rone.

Gauss1777,

Ok. We can agree to differ, As you’ve confessed to being an intolerant Marxist, I’ll confess to being a tolerant centrist.

We could leave it there but what the **** do you mean with the line:

“Well done on campaigning against racism, but none of that is new; some of us have been ‘woke’ for a long time now”

I can handle intolerant Marxists (this is STW after all) but you’ve crossed a line there.

Cornyn styled himself like a Marxist, the Trotsky hat was a bit of a give away.

It’s a tricky one isn’t it? On the one hand, we have the Labour manifesto, which is still current policy and is mainstream social democratic policy. On the other, we have, err, a hat.

Well done you.

I just hope the north doesn’t forget and never vote Tory again.

Slightly optimistic. They voted Brexit and they voted Johnson, so there’s no reason to suppose they won’t vote for his sucessor when the Mail tells them to.

But he’s not the leader – so gaining the red wall voters disgruntled anger is only temporary.

Well don’t blame me. I voted for him the time the sixth form and the membership of the Tory party all paid their 3 quid and voted for some useless old Marxist instead

Jesus.

Until all the 6th form left wing bellends bugger off there is no chance at all of any kind of change of government. While you’re all busy discussing the significance of the kind of cap someone is wearing, the right wing chappies are running rings around you and will continue to do so until you all grow up and see that the way forward involves winning the hearts and minds of the people using the same shitty underhand tactics that the Tories use.

Rone,

You could that too, and I think that might be the narrative over the coming days and weeks.

I hope binners is right but we’ve still got 4 more years of this circus.

Apologies if I am focusing too much on some of the events and Labour’s culpability leading up to this mess. Starmer also got elected through the anti democratic membership vote just like Cornyn. It is this process that is giving us the party leaders we (don’t) deserve. If we tie the hands of prospective candidates by making them run the gauntlet of sixth form politics or the blue rinse brigade then we’re never going to get out of this mess.

Party membership is one thing. If you the give those party members a ‘special’ vote then the system becomes not only un-democratic but entirely corruptable, giving the the far left and the far right an opportunity to subvert the parties they chose to become a member of.

One answer could be that if those on the left join the Conservative party to subvert the Conservative party’s leadership election, whilst those on the right join the Labour party to subvert the Labour leadership election……Sorted.

We have created a system for electing party leaders that is the equivalent of a wonky chair. If you keep sawing the legs off you’ll end up on your arse eventually. My biggest political wish is that we return to the old system where elected MP’s get to decide on their party leaders, not sure how that can be achieved but it is essential if we are going to find some sort of political centre and take the advantage away from the extremists.

Ransos,

Who the cap fit…let them wear it.

Crikey,

Hat’s matter. Trump wore a cap saying “make America great again” Corbyn wore one saying “Im a marxist, don’t vote for me”.