Is he being an irresponsible arse?

Will he roll over once the bodycount increases?

No he is doing his job. Local businesses and individuals need protected fairly from the impact of forced business closure and should receive proper funding and payments to prevent huge job losses and personal hardship. From what I understand the money offered by central government was nowhere near enough (surprise surprise) so hence the deadlock in negotiations.

This is all of our problem to deal with, not just one region left to fend for themself.

Remember every lost job costs us all far more in welfare and lost productivity than some small payments for a few months to keep jobs intact.

No, he’s sticking up for the interests of his constituents against Dictats from Westminster issued by people who clearly couldn’t find greater Manchester on a map.

The economic effect on all these places going into Tier 3 will be enormous and the package on offer will do little to negate that. We could be looking at a re-run of the 80’s in the North if they go ahead wit this as the lockdown rolls into next year, which it obviously will.

In doing so he has the full support of all the regions Tory MP’s and councillors, which include some proper big hitters like Sir Graham Brady, head of the 1922 committee.

The fact that we’ve heard nothing today after Goves whiney little snipes yesterday would suggest theres no sign of him rolling over

Good! I feel like we’ve got someone fighting our corner against a government who couldn’t give a toss about us. I’ve heard nothing but support for his position from within Greater Manchester.

No, he’s sticking up for the interests of his constituents against Dictats from Westminster issued by people who clearly couldn’t find greater Manchester on a map.

One of the MP’s commented last week that she wasn’t invited to a meeting as Cabinet secretaries didn’t realise that Wigan was next to Manchester or in the NW of England.

Good! I feel like we’ve got someone fighting our corner against a government who couldn’t give a toss about us

Agreed.

No he is doing his job. Local businesses and individuals need protected fairly from the impact of forced business closure and should receive proper funding and payments to prevent huge job losses and personal hardship.

This.
I’m in the midlands and which we had Burnham on our side.

One of the MP’s commented last week that she wasn’t invited to a meeting as Cabinet secretaries didn’t realise that Wigan was next to Manchester or in the NW of England.

That was Lisa Nandy. The MP for Warrington was also invited to the Liverpool City region meeting, then uninvited when they realised it was in Cheshire.

The Lancashire MP’s also pointed out at their meeting that with a Liverpool Derby on Saturday and Liverpool locked down, people would just come over to Ormkirk and Skelmersdale to watch it in the pubs. They were met with blank looks as nobody on the governemnt side had a clue where Ormkirk and Skelmersdale were.

They really are total bunch of ****ing clowns.

Is he being an irresponsible arse?

There may be a degree of posturing, but otherwise no. He does seem to be taking a more holistic view of *all* the ways his constituents can be f****d by COVID – not just the number who get it, but those who lose their jobs, can’t get healthcare for unrelated medical issues, can’t maintain their mental wellbeing due to strict lockdown etc.

Ignoring for a moment the incompetence/ rank politicking, the Westminster government has fixated solely on the # of new daily cases of COVID, and everything they do is focused solely on bringing that number down, regardless of the relative impact of daily case numbers (COVID is much less lethal than in March because of lessons learned then) vs total economic and infrastructure shutdown. You can’t necessarily blame them for that fixation – they’re not good with data and have been told it’s bad if this number gets big.

*obviously you can and should blame them for the cronyism, incompetence and downright criminal behaviour after that point.

I get annoyed at the narrative that is presented, that it is Andy Burnham against the government, as mention above multiple mp’s are also fighting for better support for those places in tier 3.

By making sound like its one man, Gove and his fellow henchmen can make it sound like political point scoring….

change the narrative….northen Mp’s and Mayors fight for better suppoort against Gove. Makes it sound more like one man not supporting the north.

Good! I feel like we’ve got someone fighting our corner against a government who couldn’t give a toss about us. I’ve heard nothing but support for his position from within Greater Manchester.

Couldnt agree more!

Its a bit of a no win. Delaying measures will cost lives no doubt – but agreeing without decent finances will cost the economy. On balance he is probably right IMO – as the measures are half arsed anyway.

Balancing lives against the economy is a tricky thing to do.

He’s Labour though, so won’t be in for an easy ride.

I get annoyed at the narrative that is presented

Agreed. Ministers keep spinning the “party politics” line, and the media keep running with it… despite so many Tory MPs in northern seats speaking out more strongly about the paucity of the proposals, and the government’s handling of all this, than Burnham.

I get annoyed at the narrative that is presented, that it is Andy Burnham against the government, as mention above multiple MPs are also fighting for better support for those places in tier 3.

One of those MPs is the head of the 1922 committee, hardly your typical left-wing pariah.

Burnham’s done what the government should be doing, saying “sod political differences, what’s the best (least worst) path through this that we can all pull together and make work?”. No doubt some on the left will disagree about some parts and some on the right will disagree about others but it does show how strong consensus can be. He wouldn’t have lasted a day following this course without such consensus.

He’s Labour though, so won’t be in for an easy ride.

Luckily he’s about a hundred times more competent and heavyweight a politician than Johnson, and nobody will be more aware of that than Boris.

Anyone seen Boris recently? In a fridge maybe?

He visited our business premises shortly before lockdown. Came across as a really sound and intelligent man.

As has been said – he’s doing what a mayor should.

Anyone seen Boris recently?

Taking some American intern to a conference maybe?

He does seem to be taking a more holistic view of *all* the ways his constituents can be f****d by COVID – not just the number who get it, but those who lose their jobs, can’t get healthcare for unrelated medical issues, can’t maintain their mental wellbeing due to strict lockdown etc.

Ignoring for a moment the incompetence/ rank politicking, the Westminster government has fixated solely on the # of new daily cases of COVID, and everything they do is focused solely on bringing that number down, regardless of the relative impact of daily case numbers (COVID is much less lethal than in March because of lessons learned then) vs total economic and infrastructure shutdown. You can’t necessarily blame them for that fixation – they’re not good with data and have been told it’s bad if this number gets big.

Better written than I could have.
It’s not just numbers of cases we need to be looking at.

Came across as really sound and intelligent man.

I went to school with him. We used to go to the footy together. He’s a top bloke. 100% genuine. Great to see him facing up to this shambles of a government.

Get a room!

I never used to rate him as a politician, when he was an MP… but he’d already proved himself to me to be the right person in his current role before this issue… he’s Major of the region first, Labour politician second, and well supported because of that.

I was never a fan of this mayor thing (makes us head down the US route sooner) but the fanfare from tories was always ‘elect a mayor, more power and decision making will be held locally, more funding given to the mayor to spend on the best local projects’

Seems when that mayor wants to use some of that power and apply the funding as he sees fit its a different story
now its all ‘get on board, do as your told, central government knows best, you’re not looking after constituents interests’

The local Conservative MP’s have been very vocal also against Bojo and his chums. It’s bully boy tactics, and someone needs to look at what Boris is saying – it’s outrageous. Who the hell writes his speeches?

They have also told lies about engaging the GM MP’s and Mayors – they haven’t.

Burnham – King for the North !

Tier 3 restrictions would certainly take an economic toll on Greater MCR, but would they really do much to stem the virus vs. Tier 2? I’m not convinced and I don’t think Burnham is either.

It’s just tinkering around the edges when England really needs to follow Wales into a short temporary lockdown ASAP.

Tier 3 restrictions would certainly take an economic toll on Greater MCR, but would they really do much to stem the virus vs. Tier 2?

We’ll never know because the government won’t share their data.

Government seem to have achieved the impossible and united everyone in the North across both parties and the entire political spectrum against them.

As others have said I think he is right to take the stance he has but I assume at some point the government can simply impose tier 3 on the region whether we like it or not.

I met him/heard him speak at a thing about housing policy I was photographing. I never used to rate him but I was impressed. I’d rather he was in charge of Labour than KS personally.

Look at how it’s gone for those regions that tried to compromise.

It seems likely the impact of Tier3 restrictions would be measurable, but not enough to offer a path out of Tier3, hard to even guess really, because the measures vary between the regions that have gone in… but once the question is answered… “how do we get out of Tier3 ?”, then regions will be more receptive to going in.

Burnham’s done what the government should be doing, saying “sod political differences, what’s the best (least worst) path through this that we can all pull together and make work?”

Actually they are pulling in different directions – the tories want less restrictions because they don’t like them Burnham just wants a proper financial package. Its a very fragile alliance that will soon split again

when the question is answered… “how do we get out of Tier3”, then regions will be more receptive to going in.

Given that we were all put into Tier 2 twelve weeks ago, then immediately forgotten about, you can see why it’s an issue.

Most people think, with some justification, that once we’re in Tier 3 then thats it until next spring. Not a very enticing prospect, not being able to meet anyone outside your own household until well into next year

Hows that test and trace system looking?

It’s just tinkering around the edges when England really needs to follow Wales into a short temporary lockdown ASAP.

And then what? We come out, cases go up, we lockdown again, we come out, cases go up, ad infinitum. This virus is with us, there’s no eradicating it. Vaccines will only protect against that strain, it’s already mutated.

It would help the government if they published some criteria on which these decisions are being made. Nottingham is twice the rate of Manchester. Bristol is higher now than when Bolton went into lockdown. Exeter is higher now than Stockport. That’s what’s leading to mistrust.

Seems that Graham Brady is backing him as well.

And then what? We come out, cases go up, we lockdown again, we come out, cases go up, ad infinitum.

Yep, we do exactly that until there are more effective treatments available – probably Q1 next year.

it’s already mutated

Are you getting your scientific information from random angry people on Facebook?

It would help the government if they published some criteria on which these decisions are being made.

Agreed. The rate of increase in hospital admissions seems to be the key difference between those areas you list though. But we shouldn’t be guessing… it should be more transparent, as you say.

I’m not on Facebook. But here you go…

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

You are wiser than me then! Apologies.

EDIT: In reply to the headline to your link (I haven’t read it) all viruses are mutating all the time, that is, literally, life. But so far there has been no mutation found that suggests that a working vaccine won’t be restricted in its effectiveness by mutations. That could well come at some point… but currently the “it’s already mutated, a vaccine won’t stop this” meme that I keep seeing on Facebook is adding 2 and 2 and getting 5.

EDIT2: I decided to skim read it… it says much the same as I posted.

I’m glad he’s standing firm on this. It’s not a Labour/Tory issue as he has his local Tory MPs on side, and it’s not a North/South issue (sorry binners), because the principle of protecting livelihoods and businesses potentially affects all areas of the country.

He’s ensuring that everyone who could be affected by restrictions gets appropriate protection. Yes, it’s risky if the death toll rises, but he’s doing the right thing for the right reasons. Which puts clear water between him and the government

I’ve got a conference call with him next week. That has the potential to be quite entertaining!

He’s sound – a genuine guy who does actually care about Manchester. He’s also the former Health Secretary under Gordon Brown so he knows exactly how Westminster works. The problem he’s facing is that it’s reasonably easy for Government to portray him as a lone disagreeable troublemaker being all nasty to them – that slimy toad Michael Gove couldn’t wait to accuse him of political posturing.

The fact that Burnham has shown more empathy and understanding of the North in general and Manchester in particular in 3 days than the entire Government has managed in the last 3 years obviously passed by the irony void that is Gove.

Government though are stuck really. If they tell Burnham to get on with things, that’s giving devolution to the North and that’s the absolute last thing they want to do. But if they try to impose their will on the North, they’ll piss off their entire Red Wall. Burnham has fairly broad cross-party support which tells you all you need to know about him as a person and a politician.

I think he’s excellent – all the calls I’ve had with him he’s obviously the one politician on the call that everyone else looks up to and admires. When he speaks, people listen.

You are wiser than me then! Apologies.

Apology accepted.

I think he is doing a cracking job and exactly what he should be. It’s nice to see he has built some cross party support with local mps too. We more like him

Hows that test and trace system looking?

After my dealings with them over the last couple of days since my lad tested positive… shambolic!

Contradictory instructions given, multiple phone calls asking the same questions within minutes of each other and one guy who couldn’t count to 14 without taking his socks off.

Omnishambles.

FWIW I think Burnham is doing a grand job.