Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but sometime soon…

So no deal apparently, and our glorious leader is going to tell us whats going to happen later on tv… im amazed.

Just practicing for Brexit with the no deal

At this point I’d be up for Burnham telling everyone to ignore the tier 3 and stay open and instruct the police not to act on it. Then he’d need to come up with his own plan to combat the virus spread. With people on his side it would have more chance of success than an imposed lockdown which no one agrees with.

Just for some context, the money the Treasury recently clawed back from GM in business cash grants from March/April lockdown stands at £88million.
So Government TOOK BACK £88m in Covid business support but now won’t give less than this to support GM businesses now 🤷🏻‍♀️

— Lucy Powell MP (@LucyMPowell) October 20, 2020

When are the helicopter gunships arriving?

Massive Godzilla style MC Tunes vs the gunships. When all this is over, that’s the film I’m making.

I was just searching for that Binners. Can we push for independence?

Is that image your work Binners?

Can’t take any credit for that, I’m afraid. It’s a Man Yoo Supporters Group.

I expect we’re about to be seeing a lot more of it though

The factors you list are correct. But Sweden’s death rate per thousand shows that even with those factors, without a lockdown you are still screwed.

OK, I’ll bite. This obsession with “seeee!! Sweden didn’t follow our (insane) approach, and they still had problems!!! SEEEE!!” is weirdly widespread across channels, and it’s just ridiculous. It’s like shouting “seee!! Little Timmy didn’t eat his own poo like I have, and he still got ill, so who’s the idiot, huh?!”.

So, looking at cases per 100k population to yesterday. Top of the list in Europe, Montenegro, with 2500. Spain has 1995 per 100k, Belgium 1939… France 1339, Netherlands 1321. UK, 1084, Ireland 1019 per 100k.
Sweden, 1009 per 100k, then Portugal at 972 per 100k. Denmark has 610 per 100k, Germany 441 per 100k (although IIRC reporting there was a bit iffy for a while), Greece 237 per 100k.

Deaths per 100k: Belgium 91, Spain 72, UK 65, Italy 61. Sweden 58, France 50, Ireland 38. Denmark 12.

First thing to note, of course, is that as discussed elsewhere, cases per 100k is NOT the total impact of COVID – it doesn’t take into account non-COVID deaths (to date or in the future) arising from COVID initiatives, economic deprivation, effects on poverty rate etc.
Second thing is that wow, there’s a hell of a range of numbers there. Countries with lockdown have done better, other countries with lockdown have done (far!) worse.
Third, Sweden hasn’t, on these incredibly limited metrics, done much better than the UK – but it has, on those same metrics, done better.

So, the conclusion here is that… well, we can’t actually draw conclusions because WE’RE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. But, it’s fair to say that Sweden certainly isn’t outside the range of COVID impact which, given just how different its response has been, is very interesting.

So, can we now stop yelling, with faeces around our mouth, “look at little Timmy! Timmy didn’t eat his own poo, and he’s not turned into Superman! Seee! Eating your own poo is definitely the way forward!!” and perhaps be a bit more mature about it?

I did read an interesting take on the Swedish issue that points out that the healthy life years remaining at age 65 is significantly lower in the UK than it is in Sweden (about half as much, in fact).

This goes some way towards explaining why Sweden is doing better – it’s not anything they’re doing specifically, but more that over-65s in the UK tend to be fat, lazy diabetics who eat and drink too much while using cars at every opportunity. << said cars affect air quality, making them even more likely to pop their clogs from flu / CV19.

I think you’re better off comparing Sweden to its neighbours who have similar demographics – Norway and Finland. I’m pretty sure they’re doing much better than Sweden.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3765

I read somewhere that their better social security means less pressure to work when ill/infected also. Plus just generally better social cohesion, higher standards of healthcare etc. I think you can only really compare it to other similar Nordic countries though, as pointed out.

So, can we now stop yelling, with faeces around our mouth, “look at little Timmy! Timmy didn’t eat his own poo, and he’s not turned into Superman! Seee! Eating your own poo is definitely the way forward!!” and perhaps be a bit more mature about it?

Your post is by far the most hysterical OTT thing I’ve read about Covid and Sweden.

Good speech by Andy. Lets see what the flytipped sofa has to say and whether the ‘facts’ as described by them both has the remotest thing in common.

Theres no question about who is going to be believed. It will hardly come as a surprise.

Third, Sweden hasn’t, on these incredibly limited metrics, done much better than the UK – but it has, on those same metrics, done better.

Most countries have done better then the UK, on those metrics. And in terms of the economic impact as well.

I read somewhere that their better social security means less pressure to work when ill/infected also.

Yup, full pay when isolating because of symptoms or TTI. Compare that to here… where people can choose between our statutory sick pay (naff all) or to carry on going to work. Not hard to see why so many people in the UK carry on going to work, or are avoiding TTI and generally trying to stay under the radar, rather than cooperate.

Good speech by Andy.

Missed it.

Switched on… the others are speaking… let’s keep remembering there is enormous consensus on this in the region… unprecedented it could be said… this is not about one man.

Well that’s a few north west Tory MPs retraining in cyber come the next election.

little matty handjob (thank you to whoever on this thread introduced me to that) just announced sum total of support the GM will receive is £22m an have withdrawn the £60m offered earlier.

what a bunch of utterly despicable c-nuts. playing with peoples lives to score political points and wave a big stick ahead of all other regional negotiations.

tories are very quickly turning covid into the miners strike for the millenials

GM will receive is £22m an have withdrawn the £60m offered earlier

Thats despicable.

They could have left that and said ” thats all you’re getting, like it or lump it” but to take it away….  I don’t even have the words.

Well… it’s us in Yorkshire next.

Its interesting to see the difference in speeches from both sides

Andy’s was well thought out and well delivered

Boris’s is coming across as rushed, blustered and on the back foot

Then Notts….

Just wow.

Disgraceful, hopefully this will haunt them.

I get the feeling that this moment will be replayed again and again and again.

Politically, absolutely toxic. pic.twitter.com/1LqutiD2Gm

— Tom Swarbrick (@TomSwarbrick1) October 20, 2020

and instruct the police not to act on it.

I’m not sure that will happen, sadly.

What led us to this inept, corrupt, self-serving, lying, etc, etc bunch of shysters…?

How long until we do get civil unrest. Man oh man.

How long until we do get civil unrest. Man oh man.

Two weeks into January as a No Deal Brexit bites properly, Covid Christmas is over with no end in sight and the country and about 85% of the people in it are bankrupt.

Perhaps Andy can lead the revolt.

What led us to this inept, corrupt, self-serving, lying, etc, etc bunch of shysters…?

Democracy. Or the laughable sham of democracy that we now endure.

Well, that’s the Tories losing all their seats in the north west isn’t it?! When this response happens to other regions they are effectively signing their own death warrant!

At every single opportunity they have had in this term to do the right thing and do themselves some good PR they have failed in spectacular style! How on earth have they become (and allowed to become) so out of touch with literally evey aspect of the nation that they are governing?

Your post is by far the most hysterical OTT thing I’ve read about Covid and Sweden.

:D. Eh, it’s a close-run thing – you should check out some of the hatchet jobs out there on how Sweden is deliberately making the wrong choice because blah blah.

Can we agree at least that right now, we don’t actually know what the right choice is, as illustrated by our own government’s flapping around from lockdown to not and back again? And that it’s probably not a stretch to think that we won’t actually be able to assess the relative approaches until about 3-5 years from now, when the full effects of COVID and its associated mental health/ economic/ welfare impact will start to be clearer?

The largest factor in the increase in covid cases in northern cities is due to students returning.

A friends son has just started Uni in Leeds, he’s in a hall of residence unit with 7 others, all of whom have covid. Shared Kitchen, shared bathroom and a personal room the size of a cupboard. All for the bargain price of £600 pcm.

That’s twice what I pay for a 2 bedroom flat on the edge of central Manchester in a zone with similar halls of residence. The area has been teeming with partying, non social distancing students for the past month.

It’s not rocket science is it. Seems to me that the main priority has been to protect the rental income from properties that are essentially covid Petri dishes.

And remember, as Trump would call it, Manchester is a ‘Democrat’ run city, no chance of the red wall crumbling here so why not play politics with Covid?

Er… have you not been listening to all the Conservative MPs from the area over the last week? They are not happy with the PM… to put it mildly.

I can barely find the words to describe how angry I am! And I’m pretty sure that’s going to the overriding emotion across greater Manchester tonight

The utter ****s!!!

They just ****ed us big time as an example to everyone else!!

This really is going to be a re-run of the 89’s. Boris should remember that, unlike Thatcher he won’t have the police as a militia on his side.

Businesses are going to go down like dominoes over winter. We have just been well and truly shafted

I’m ****ing apoplectic!

To think that Government were entirely happy to chuck £14m at a non-existent ferry company but are prepared to sell Greater Manchester down the river for £5m. It’s all about making an example of a labour stalwart and make other northern leaders think twice about doing anything other than rolling over and have their bellies tickled.

Guys, could you older clarify for me please?

Gov offered £60m million but as that was not accepted outs now made an effectively punitive offer of £20m?

Kelvin,

I’ve been listening to them Boris hasn’t. As tuboflard says, this is a case of making an example of a Labour stalwart, that’s how this plays out nationally.

You’ve really got to stop thinking of this mob as the Tory party, they are a coalition of the Brexit party, UKIP, the BNP and some remnants of the Conservative party.

Perhaps we should start refering to them as the ‘Two Nation’ Tory Party.

Just for you Binners.

“And we say,,, You do it this way…”

Guys, could you older clarify for me please?

Gov offered £60m million but as that was not accepted outs now made an effectively punitive offer of £20m?

that seems to be a decent summary

Gov offered £60m million but as that was not accepted outs now made an effectively punitive offer of £20m?

According to BBC news the 20M is a flat rate per capita to fund contact tracing etc but the 60M is still on offer, but obviously that offer needs to be accepted

Just when you think they can’t sink any lower…

And these are the geniuses we have in charge of Brexit negotiations.

Where does it say the £60m offer is still on the table? This is the latest update I can see on the BBC website:

The PM’s confirmation that the Greater Manchester area is to go into a tier-three shutdown of much of the hospitality sector at the end of Thursday will be damaging to the local economy but the virus is still spreading rapidly.

The surprising thing here was that £60m of support to businesses placed on the table in negotiations with Manchester at midday appears to have been completely withdrawn.

Where does it say the £60m offer is still on the table?

Was on the 6pm telly news not the website

I’m in a blue bit at the bottom edge of the map above, right at the bottom – and the local Con MP has absolutely laid into the MP. We’re the lowest infection rate also. Ballcocks that £60m vanished very fast – watched it live.

I’m getting my bio-hazard top to cycle into Cheshire (less a few miles from my house).