It includes pesticides using microorganisms, products of microorganisms and plants. So basically anything found and it derived from the natural **** world – Indole-3-acetic acid is “biological” except it’s nasty and it’s derivatives are used to produce……agent orange.

Brilliant, truly genius way to classify chemical compounds and active agents.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA

They are obtained from organisms including plants, bacteria and other microbes, fungi, nematodes, etc.[2][2][3] They are often important components of integrated pest management (IPM) programmes, and have received much practical attention as substitutes to synthetic chemical plant protection products (PPPs).

Yup, as above – anything and everything in the natural world – not just microbes or nematodes as your link seems to suggest.

I grew up on the biggest conventional farming operation in Scotland in the 80s, I’ve worked in farm certification cation including pesticide application on grain crops and I’ve managed organic farms. Don’t tell me that the permissable organic pesticides are more dangerous and applied more than than conventional ones. If you really want to go toe to toe on that subject – meet me in the pub.

Well there seems to be no strong epidemiological evidence or otherwise to support either being more dangerous than the other.

I’m happy to meet up in a pub to argue about it or even just talk. Do we have enough understanding of the environmental or health effects of using different mechanisms/vectors to combat pests? Is it right to be encouraging the public to think that this is a binary – natural/safe vs synthetic/unsafe issue? What happens when the public realise these “natural” microbes are often genetically modified?

organic is certainly better tasting

I might have called BS but recently tried Sainsbury’s organic bananas and they are noticeably tastier so always buy them now. However, the cost of buying all organic from the supermarket is a considerable increase, up to 200% easily. Individual items ok, but the while shop regularly isn’t affordable.

We tried local veg box, but I prefer to choose what I’m eating rather than beetroot, cabbage, carrots on repeat.

So in the OP, these friends are vegan and organic. My understanding of veganism means you don’t touch animal products, but organic fertiliser is mostly cow sh1t. So by going organic, are they no longer pure vegans?

@amatuer no they’re not vegan. We were discussing the recent vegan nutters blocking people buying meat when they mentioned going clean/organic.

This has been a really good thread. Always amazed at the knowledge on th8s site!

Which further demonstrates just how much meaningless and waste of time the label actually is. I would be interested to hear what the difference between Salt that is labelled as organic and salt that is not actually is.

It’s a label that has a specific meaning according to the soil association. The definitions are available on the soil association website AFAIK. You can read them for yourself.

What is “biological”? You mean naturally occurring yes? Because that makes everything soo much better – hemlock is naturally occurring as well. Excuse me whilst I go and sprinkle some on my avocado toast.

It’s not just some nonsense dreamed up in a pub. Read up on on it. It protects the soil and preserves biodiversity on farms amongst other things, including even such things as animal welfare. Organic beef requires that cows spend a lot of time outside (at least 200 days per yer) and eat a lot of grass (at least 60%), for example. And it’s been shown that grass-fed beef is better for you as it has more Omega-3 in it.

I suspect many ‘organic’ carrots have the wonky ones chucked ?

I don’t think they get chucked. All the wonky fruit and veg goes into the processed food industry where it’s chopped up before we get to see it.

Interesting article came out today – organic would have a bad effect on the environment due to the amount of land needed and more travelling for the food

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2220659-going-fully-organic-would-raise-greenhouse-gas-emissions/amp/

biodynamic

The homeopathy of agriculture….

Organic is a way to go but there’s no need for any of these methods to applied to all crops in all circumstances. We need to be reducing pesticides and synthetic fertilizers thats a given but this should be via a a combination of measures from GM for resistance to rewilding unproductive areas and corridors for pollinators and watercourses, lowering erosion, rotational cropping and changes to diet. The trouble is people tend to like to go batshit for one thing to the exclusion of all others. People innit, daft.

All I know for sure is that no tomatoes ever tasted as good as the ones in grandfather’s greenhouse.

It’s certainly true that the cherry tomatoes I used to buy in punnets from the supermarket were nice and red and perfectly shaped, but had no appreciable flavour at all, but the cherry tomatoes that my step-dad grew out the back in gro-bags were absolutely delicious, I could eat them like sweets, they had so much flavour to them.
Were they anymore or less organic than the supermarket ones?

Were they anymore or less organic than the supermarket ones?

Depends on what was in the grow bags and what tomato food he gave them (if any)

All I know for sure is that no tomatoes ever tasted as good as the ones in grandfather’s greenhouse. No idea if ‘organic’ or not, but you couldn’t eat them in the winter or spring they unless were in a chutney…

I think I might remember seeing a little bottle of tomato ‘plant food’ in his greenhouse. Most probably a Monsanto minion.

OTOH, friend’s polytunnel toms are not treated with anything, no insecticides, no chemical/synthetic ‘plant food’ etc. And they taste great too.

I’d like to know how supermarkets make their tomatoes all thick-fleshed, pale, and un-tasty. Force-grown and super-refrigerated?