Home Forums Bike Forum 650b or 29er –

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  • 650b or 29er –
  • mtbmatt
    Free Member

    I wonder how many of those commenting have actually tried all 3?
    For starters people need to stop relating rider height to wheel size, it really doesn’t matter.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Very unlikely to try all 3. I have only bought 1 bike complete and that was my first one. All others have evolved out of each other. It will be a long time before I buy a complete bike again. So I reckon I’m sticking with 26.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    I wonder how many of those commenting have actually tried all 3?

    *Puts hand up*

    FWIW, my thoughts…

    26 – Great for bigger travel bikes, and even more so for techy twisty stuff.

    650 – Seems a very good compromise. Will be interested to see what mid-travel bikes come in this format in the coming years. Could well be my next full bouncer.

    29 – Lovely for wide open spaces, smooth flowy stuff. Great fun once they’re rolling along. May well be my next HT purchase, as it happens.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    So will the industry which isn’t desperately trying to flog new stuff to us introduce modular frames that fit all three wheel sizes with minor tweaks?

    You know, so on those days when you get up and find you’re five inches taller you can go with a 29er and so on. And will 650b tyres be readily available in more than two varieties?

    And will people ride more as a result. 😉

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    I’ve tried all three, I currently ride a 26 and am considering a new bike for next years race season.

    For technical, tight, and powerful XC courses 650 would be my choice, for marathon racing then 29er would be the way to go.

    29er’s were everywhere during this seasons races in Sweden.

    That being said I doubt whether wheel size accounts for more than a couple of percent in overall performance/time. Its still the engine that counts.

    brassneck
    Full Member

    650 – Seems a very good compromise.

    But a compromise still? I’ve only ridden 26 / 29 mind. 650b still doesn’t seem well adopted enough, and I can’t see 3 standards surviving as mainstream.

    Main issue for me is my lifetimes investment in 26″ tyres 😉 – they might have all gone off years ago but I still can’t bring myself to throw them out.

    aracer
    Free Member

    Given people’s reluctance to change from 26″, there must be a gap in the market for something which is closer to that than 650b. Thankfully there’s already a suitable industry standard wheel size in 650c. At 571 ISO, that’s only 12mm larger than 26″ wheels, so should be a good compromise to help out those reluctant to make the switch. Would also be ideal for all those rides where 26″ wheels feel a bit small, but 650b ones a bit big.

    Andy
    Full Member

    CaptainFlashheart – Member

    29 – …May well be my next HT purchase, as it happens.

    After years of dismissing them as hybrids? 😉

    Think CFH and Redford rider have it about right, but still say its not the wheel size its the bike – there are good and bad 26ers as there are 29ers

    Not tried a 650b – would certainly like to try a short travel FS version for tight and twisty singletrack.

    bentudder
    Full Member

    aracer, you mean *another* standard?

    😀

    Yeah, what the hell, let’s go for it. Just for the irony.

    I’m actually hoping to buy a bike at the end of the year if my company pays out its annual bonus, but all this jibberjabber about 650b and 29er (I’m 5’7″, so well into shortarse territory) is making me think I should stick with the little wheels for a while until all the standards are ironed out and we know what does well. 29er is looking great (especially Santa Cruz and Specialized’s hardtails), but all the hoopla about 650b is making me think it’s better to wait and see.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Andy, middle age approaches, and one needs a nice relaxing hybrid for the gentler riding.

    😉

    GEDA
    Free Member

    What are 29er like on trails designed with a 26er in mind? How much bigger turning circle do they have? I took someone with a 29er round a few trails that I built and it was fantastic on the straight but when it got twisty, technical and fun stuff it was like trying to manoeuvre a large ship. How much do they change the gear ranges as well?

    Isn’t the point that there seems to be so little difference in speeds even at the professional end that its going to make little difference to us mortals.

    Personally I would love a hard tail XC 29er but then would I be better off with a Cross bike?

    Brake-neck
    Free Member

    I am struggling to understand why most of the comments here are generalising this issue. I have never ridden 650 but I’ve had a few 29er and 26ers. The difference between how my solaris rides in comparison to say my first 29er(Chumba HX2) or my GF bitter to my last 26er(C456) are so significant that to say “29ers are good at **** or 26ers are better at ****” just doesn’t make sense at all.

    IMO the only people that can begin to justify statements like that are the ones who have ridden a selection of long/short travel suss and hardtail bikes in both 29 and 26 inch wheels, as a wild stab in the dark I don’t think that there are too many folk other than employees of bike mags that have this experience to comment upon(Although there are a couple I know personally).
    If you haven’t done that don’t misinform people with mis/preconceptions, ego padding and wishful thinking.
    Trying “all 3” doesn’t immediately mean you can call it on which is best only which one was best for you and even then that opinion is formed having only tried maybe 5% of the bikes out there.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    If it helps all three I rode were by the same manufacture, with the same travel. All three were full on XC hardtails.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    It will be a long time before I buy a complete bike again. So I reckon I’m sticking with 26.

    Why though, if you buy a new frame, all you need on top of that is rims, tyres and spokes? You could convert your existing wheels for under £120 (£25 tyre, £25 rim, £10 spokes).

    I can’t see 3 standards surviving as mainstream.

    Seatposts: 27.2, 30.9, 31.6 + other odd sizes
    Front mechs: 29.8, inbetweeny, 34.9. + several bolt, BB and braze on standards
    Axles: how many!

    slackalice
    Free Member

    KTM have some interesting 650’s for 2013….

    Lycan 650b

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    I’d like a 650b bike, just to be awkward.

    redfordrider
    Free Member

    Don’t forget that many 26″ frames and forks will take 650b wheels. http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/26-to-650b-conversion

    Personally, I’m an XC Marathon man and will stick to my 29er HTs as lots of races have long sections that I could easily do on my CX bike.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    I’ve got no real for/against 29ers agenda myself, I can see the benefits but as I don’t really race XC and all my current 26″ bikes/spares are perfectly adequate for my riding, I’m not about to piss a load of money away on changing wheel sizes if I don’t need to.

    I can’t quite get away from having slight misgivings about how 29ers will behave for more technical riding/DH use but that’s only part of the overall equation, and everyones riding has a different bias and equipment requirements.

    I’ve come closest to owning a 29er in Rigid SS format. But again already having a 26er that fills that gap means I’m not too concerned about buying one right now, those cheapo DB mojitos were tempting at the time though, just as a trial of the idea, but then supply seemed to dry up suddenly… if something similar becomes available and I’m in need of a new rigid/SS bike then I’ll consider it then…

    What I don’t really like though is the way both ‘Pro’ and ‘Anti’ 29erists seem so keen to start polarised debate over wheel sizes, and campaign for the abolishion of one or the other…

    I don’t believe that MTBs have to whole heartedly adopt one “standard” wheel size or another, there is suffcient supply/demand for both to be viable for the foreseeable future IMO…

    650b? Pah! either you want bigger wheels or you don’t, I’m not really interested in muddying the water with a “3rd Way” 26″ or 29″ that’s really all the question is for most people…

    kimbers
    Full Member

    the euro brands seem to be pushing 650b more, eg scott, cube, ktm (although norco are too) compared the the usa 29er love-in?

    Macavity
    Free Member

    650B …..

    Is that not what David Wrath-Sharman, Geoff Apps, Jeremy Torr etc etc
    were using 30 years ago?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    the euro brands seem to be pushing 650b more, eg scott, cube, ktm (although norco are too) compared the the usa 29er love-in?

    Jamis are all over 650 in the US as well. Not sure it’s such a continental divide.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Ah the buyers maths. Rims about 35 spokes 10 fork 500 frame? Then I’m down a good wheel set and have a bogded frame.

    nixon_fiend
    Free Member

    I’ve been riding 650B for over 3 years now. I figured it would eventually catch on – simply because it has no downsides. It allows for oodles of travel in a FS bike, and rolls better than a 26″

    For those wondering about how it handles – Let me say this .. It feels nearly identical to riding a 26″ bike in terms of handling / cornering / sprinting etc. But it definitely rolls smoother – so you ride faster.

    650b was resurrected by Kirk Pacenti – with a simple criteria.. Fed up with having to make design sacrifices around 29er frames to allow for the wheel size .. He wanted to use the largest wheel possible while MAINTAINING the angles (and thus the handling) of a 26″ wheel bike… Looking through the old standards – 650B fit the bill best.

    With the future increasingly biased towards FS bikes – 29ers will evetually be consigned to XC race bikes and hardtails.

    IMO – in ten years 70% of MTBs will be 650B .. And I don’t think we will see any more ‘standards’ emerge after this.

    They’ll start calling it 27.5 soon too.

    nixon_fiend
    Free Member

    My old 650B

    Frame was a bit small for me though

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Can someone measure the ground to wheel centre on their 650 and say what tyre it is. The front end on my 26 sus feels vague compared to my 29.
    A 650 front wheel could help.

    GEDA
    Free Member

    Maybe the issue is that mountain bike technology is quite mature now so most new stuff is just to get you to buy something.

    For example who really thinks 10/11 speed is realy that much difference to 9. Adding more granuality between gear shifts is a law of deminising returns. Ice tech rotors?? Sorry don’t most DH riders run titchy disks anyway, over heating has never been a problem in my experience even in the Alps with an old set of SLX brakes. (Or should that be Ice tech rotors, for people who brake too much). I just have upgraded my 2006 Orange Patriot with a rp23 shock and it performed brilliantly so the same could be said about frame design. All designs have been around a bit now.

    So in the end most change now is about companies trying to get you to buy something as it is slightly better/a different colour. Classic consumerism. Wheel size does not make that much difference.

    patriotpro
    Free Member

    Nice bike ‘nixon_friend’ – what frame is that ❓

    FWIW I think 29ers are best suited in HT form…

    mjsmke
    Full Member

    that photo shows the problem with 26″ wheels… they just make big frames look like clown bikes!

    And 29″ wheels make small frames look like tractors.

    andypaul99
    Free Member

    650b with skinnier tyres is all but identical in size to 26er with bigger tyres, i.e. 27″. At least 29er is different enough to make it worth having a second standard size, especially one whose rotational inertia handles well with taller and heavier riders.

    Agree, and this is why my 29er is on order. Thinking about it short of electric gizmos and computerised suspension was there much else that could have been done with a 26 inch bike… I think the peak probably came with the cannondale flash ultimate 26er – the one that weighed 18.50 lbs and was virtually unrideable on most technical terrain to all but the best racers.. So with XC 26’s it was really just coming down to a weight game. At least with a 29er you have something that feels different – If it wasnt for decent 29ers coming onto the marketplace i probably wouldnt change my 26…just no point.

    650b bikes look good, and if it didnt give me no mud clearance i might just put some 650b wheels on my anthem…but i cant see an advantage other that looks… with 2.25 tyres would there really be much of an advantage?

    Once the 650B and 29’er markets have been fully raped of consumers’ cash, I wonder whether the marketing guys at the big corporate brands will lead everyone back down the garden path to 26″ wheels or come up with new cash cow.

    Off road penny farthings maybe.

    GaryLake
    Free Member

    Personally I would love a hard tail XC 29er but then would I be better off with a Cross bike?

    No because a 29er XC hardtail is very much still a mountain bike, and a cross bike is very much still a cross bike.

    I think we’ll always have all 3 still. I believe Cotic still sell 3 souls to every Solaris or something like that I think Cy said. And the Solaris is all new sales, Soul sales haven’t dropped off.

    The big boys can keep dropping 26ers from the range in order to force the issue, but I think they’ll just play into the hands of smaller brands. I think the 26er will become a bit more niche/enthusiast only on the shorter travel end purely because recreational riders will just end up buying Carves instead of Rockhoppers without realising. I’ll be amazed if 650b or 29er completely takes over on the longer travel end.

    I like 29ers and I’m short btw.

    Brake-neck
    Free Member

    Once the 650B and 29’er markets have been fully raped of consumers’ cash, I wonder whether the marketing guys at the big corporate brands will lead everyone back down the garden path to 26″ wheels or come up with new cash cow.

    So does this mean Dialled think everyone that has bought a 29er is a marketing victim and you guys will never build 29/650b frame? 🙂

    Earl
    Free Member

    I cant wait for 650 to really kick in – ie lots of bikes – not just the £2k+ stuff

    I’m been riding a 29er for the last few years and at 5’6 its really too big from a all round handling point of view but the feel of the wheel inertia is fantastic.

    GaryLake
    Free Member

    Earl, have you tried a G2 Trek 29er?

    No Brake-Neck, I don’t think everyone who rides a 29’er or 650B is a victim. I don’t hate the bikes or the riders, just the way that some things in cycling get forced into becoming “new standards” when there was nothing wrong with the “old standards”.

    bedmaker
    Full Member

    I don’t feel like a victim. I’m an average height guy who tried a cheap 29er 5 years ago and was immediately converted by the ride, not marketing speil. I then sold my lovely Ti 26″ bike and wouldn’t contemplate going back.

    I just don’t get the whole slow handling, sluggish myth peddled by those who haven’t ridden a decent 29er.

    I ride techy stuff mostly, not towpaths, I like jumping and chucking the bike around. 29ers just work.

    timax
    Free Member

    29er = Hybrid (schoolrun)/ XC Race
    650b = Ticks more boxes than the other two… ( Enduro fs bike mmmm ,likey)… or ..er ..a mountain bike!!
    26″ = Downhill /jump/northshore

    That’s how they ride for me….

    650b for me… 😀

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    29er = Hybrid (schoolrun)/ XC Race
    650b = Ticks more boxes than the other two… ( Enduro fs bike mmmm ,likey)… or ..er ..a mountain bike!!
    26″ = Downhill /jump/northshore

    What’s wrong with 29er DH or AM? Bigger rocks need bigger wheels surely, and when was the last time a DH bike was launched as being less stable than it’s predecessor. The problem is that despite it’s illusion of beingthe height of technical development it’s really a bit of a backwater.

    Carbon – arrived last, roadies and XC ers had proved it worked and developed it for almost 2 decades!
    Gears – seems to be going backwards, I predict singlespeeds by 2017
    Travel – seems to have hit a sensible limit at 8″
    Suspension design and dampers – generaly it seems to be the XCers pushing pedaling efficiency, and anything plush seems to come from outside the industry (Bossard, Ohlins).

    Have any developments in DH trickled down to the rest of us?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    well theres clutch rear mechs, chain devices, disc brakes, decent flat pedals + sticky rubber shoes, bolt through forks, oversized steerers, lock on grips

    and i think id happily let roadies develop carbon till i was confident enough to send it off a massive booter, gas to flat, whilst doing a whip, dropping into the ft william arena!! 😉

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    I don’t get all this talk of “it’s all marketing hype” where big wheels are concerned.

    Do you think that nothing has ever been marketed to you before.

    Longer travel sir? It’ll make you a better rider.

    This years half a degree slacker head angle sir? It’ll make you a better rider.

    Ratners coating on your fork and shock sir? It’ll make you a better rider.

    Course they’re marketed to you . Just like everything you buy.

    I’ve tried all three sizes. ( four if you count 36ers)

    My take is that 26 is good for some stuff, 29 is good for a larger range of stuff and 650b isn’t different enough to 26 to notice.

    I’d also say that a lot of people who recon they’re “too rad” for a 29er aren’t as gnar as they think they are. 😉

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