(I’m all for vaccinating 12-18 year old, but think I read it was a supply issue as much as anything else)
But... that's not what we're being told, is it?
Our government have messed up here... because they don't want to admit it's a supply issue... getting vaccine supply and rollout correct is all they have to crow about, and don't want to admit any issue. So, what happens when we have more supply of Pfizer? After telling the public that the case for vaccinating teens isn't there? [ just don't look at what other countries are doing ] Does the government reverse ferret and expect parents to put their kids forward after being told there wasn't a good case for doing so?
Does the government reverse ferret and expect parents to put their kids forward after being told there wasn’t a good case for doing so?
Quite possibly.....
Yes that's exactly what they will do, and then wonder why uptake us low.
So after the 16th if you’ve been jabbed you don’t need to isolate if you are a contact but you do need to PCR test? So we will now run out of test capacity again as this will be a big number?
So after the 16th if you’ve been jabbed you don’t need to isolate if you are a contact but you do need to PCR test? So we will now run out of test capacity again as this will be a big number?
Will be so few people using the app that it will be a very small number....
So after the 16th if you’ve been jabbed you don’t need to isolate if you are a contact but you do need to PCR test?
Will you still need to isolate while you await your test result? If there’s masses of demand the time that takes could rise considerably. Isolation by stealth?
The covid app today is only advisory to isolate and get tested, it is not a legal requirement to isolate if you are pinged by the app. Simply because as it's not managed by a central database to control no one other than the owner of the phone the app is on will know if its pinged a positive close contact or not.
From the 16th if you are contacted by T&T and told you're a contact of someone who has tested positive then you will not be required to isolate if you're double jabbed. You are advised to get a test but only advisory, so in effect you can ignore the call if double jabbed.
so in effect you can ignore the call if double jabbed
But don’t.
The PCR test measures three genes, not just the spike protein. The UK variant (alpha) was identified by missing the S-gene (S Gene Target Failures or SGTF) and still seeing the (N)ucleocapsid and the Open Reading Frame (ORF) genes. I think it extremely unlikely that a new variant would appear which did not register at least one of those three genes. But I could be wrong, I just think it very unlikely.
That's the kind of answer I was hoping for, that there are multiple paths to identification in the current test. Puts my mind at ease slightly at least.
But then stuff like this make me worried again:
Javid admits he's a bit clueless on where things are heading.
If they don't know whether things are good or bad why are they ploughing forward with relaxation of rules and allowing people from other countries to fly in without quarantine? It's almost like they haven't done the analysis but have done it for political reasons.
I am proof that double jabbed still get it and still transmit. (I had symptoms first and now whole family have it, including my double jabbed wife, bar my 5 year old.....)
I have had a properly rough 8 days, today I slept most of the day, just couldnt stay awake and i am knackered walking quickly up the stairs.
The view seems to be that double jabbed is bulletproof and its not, so will this lead to more people being more lax about preventative measures and more getting it?
Javid’s approach? Make no predictions… claim any result as a success.
- cases keep rising ; claim it as a success that hospitalisations brought forward away from the winter (just talk over everyone saying those health events are mostly avoidable)
- cases plateau ; claim everything is under control (ignore those talking about the long term burden on healthcare of all that avoidable long covid)
- cases fall ; claim this as evidence that there was no need to continue with simple measures like mask wearing on public transport after all (get new stories ready to explain any problems occurring in the next academic year because we didn’t take advantage of the summer break to drive down infections and vaccinate the young)
The view seems to be that double jabbed is bulletproof
First I hope you and your family recover OK. Second, this was never the case. The vaccine increased protection from serious illness, and increased protection from death. It was never bullet proof, it just gave you a much better chance once infected than without.
@convert - another issue in Oz has been that while the drawbridge is supposedly down, people are coming in under certain circumstances but they're forced to quarantine in hotels. Most of the cases seem to be leaking out of these hotels, issues with a/c meaning a family are getting infected without even leaving their room. And of course Delta is making this worse.
What's been really strange is that in Queensland now we've had a few instances of Delta infected people spending significant times in the community without (so far!) any real spread. Sure, we're all supposed to be masked up and being careful, but I saw two scaffolders sharing a ciggy yesterday, so people clearly aren't paying that much attention
Vaccination rates are interesting. The Northern Territory is renowned for being a bit like the wild west. It has low population levels and is very isolated, so I would have expected that they would have low vaccination rates due to attitude and difficulties with delivering vaccines, yet they've got the highest rates of all parts of Australia.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/australias-covid-19-vaccine-rollout 
Might be a case of where you’re getting your news from but….
The view seems to be that double jabbed is bulletproof and its not
Where’s this view out of curiosity as I’m not seeing it? Always seen that a notable and fairly wide range % are prone to being infected even double jabbed but should have a “reasonably” high protection against hospitalisation/mortality but again, definitely not what I’d think of as bullet proof.
e.g. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
With the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 74.5% (95% CI, 68.4 to 79.4) among persons with the alpha variant and 67.0% (95% CI, 61.3 to 71.8) among those with the delta variant.
Which was my top Google hit and not the only %’s you’ll find.
Might be a case of where you’re getting your news from but….
My guess is from headlines rather than actual reports and interviews. Even our incompetent ministers talk about reducing the risk of hospitalisation and serious illness, but headline writers transform it into "freedom day" etc.
Another double jabbed (AZ) but infected here. Started showing symptoms 10/07/21 and tested positive (LF & then PCR next day), as did both kids but they were relatively asymptomatic. Wife tested negative all the way through (daily LF tests due to her work).
I'm still feeling battered almost a month down the line, resting heart rate is high, get out of breath stupidly easily climbing stairs etc, and still get really tired physically and mentally very easily. The team at the test centre I went to here in Bristol said they're seeing lots of people coming through whore double jabbed.
Anecdotally, we know from school parents' FB group that lots are deleting app or not testing if contacts / symptoms so as not to mess up their holidays. ****ing idiots prolonging it.
. **** idiots prolonging it.
Not sure they are prolonging it, it isn't going away, but they are being bloody stupid.
One of our double jabbed managers has got it, pretty rough a week on apparently
One of my double jabbed colleagues caught it, unpleasant cold like symptoms, carried on working, from home.
My suspicion with the drop in numbers over the last week was people not testing so as to not ruin their holiday plans. I know alot of people took their kids out of school for the last week of term for exactly that reason, but this wouldn't account for the drop in infection numbers in that period.
I am proof that double jabbed still get it and still transmit. (I had symptoms first and now whole family have it, including my double jabbed wife, bar my 5 year old…..)
I have had a properly rough 8 days, today I slept most of the day, just couldnt stay awake and i am knackered walking quickly up the stairs.
The view seems to be that double jabbed is bulletproof and its not, so will this lead to more people being more lax about preventative measures and more getting it?
You're not proof though, you don't know that your 5yr wasn't asymptomatic and passed it to you and your wife, you have no idea how it was spread in your household.
Secondly it was always known the vaccine is not bullet proof, it dramatically reduces the chances of getting ill from it and then seriously ill and so on but there's always a risk a fully vaccinated individual of any age can still get ill and die. It's a risky world we live in folk, let's keep calm and carry on eh. We didn't batter an eyelid going into work with the sniffles yet could have ended up killing a vulnerable elderly person with influenza and pneumonia as a result of it.
Not quite yet but soon (more double jabbed) we'll have to accept this and live in a risk accepted way of life mitigating where we can but with very little impact to life. Testing can't continue forever, think of the environmental impact of all of these bits of plastic from lateral flow tests or masks in the landfill for example.
We didn’t batter an eyelid going into work with the sniffles yet could have ended up killing a vulnerable elderly person with influenza and pneumonia as a result of it
Hopefully more people have gained an appreciation of that fact and flu will also be taken more seriously than it has been in this country. I got my first flu jab last year and will continue to now. I'm unlikely to directly infect a vulnerable person but one less carrier is good.
I believe the UKs stats for deaths and hospitalisation from flu suggest that we were well behind the curve as far as European countries are concerned, another one hoping we learn from the pandemic
Hopefully the UK's approach to flu vaccines (and taking "sniffles" into the workplace) will change this winter, with a lasting legacy.
At the very least, I'd expect the flu vaccine to be available to the slightly younger cohort it did last year.
However, I reckon it's still the case that too many employers aren't willing to support/allow staff to be absent for "sniffles" and, frankly, too many employees can't afford to take time off.
Hopefully the UK’s approach to flu vaccines (and taking “sniffles” into the workplace) will change this winter, with a lasting legacy.
is not a rolling reinfection of flu/cold etc the only thing that keeps us partly immune from it?
Flu vaccine is far from perfect due to quick mutations, especially so this upcoming year as we aren't quite sure whats going to appear.
Hopefully the UK’s approach to flu vaccines (and taking “sniffles” into the workplace) will change this winter, with a lasting legacy.
is not a rolling reinfection of flu/cold etc the only thing that keeps us partly immune from it?
Vaccinations do the same thing as "rolling reinfection" without the recipients being contagious and putting others at risk (as well a protecting themselves). We have a "vaccinate the at risk" approach to the flu in the UK, and, compared to other countries that vaccinate to prevent spread, the results are very poor.
Flu vaccine is far from perfect due to quick mutations, especially so this upcoming year as we aren’t quite sure whats going to appear.
This is very true. Which is why this winter we will need to act differently. I hope this results in a new approach carrying forward into future winters as well.
Last year, the flu vaccination programme was extended into year 7 in secondary school for the first time as part of the government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Due to the uncertainties around the impact of COVID-19 this winter, the programme is being extended, to include all secondary school-aged children up to year 11. No decision has yet been made about whether the expanded programme will continue in future years covering all children to year 11 or whether the programme will return to a phased rollout approach.
First two patients to be treated in the US with our antibody were both double vaccinated with mRNA. Rate of growth of delta is consistent across countries and appears independent of vaccination. Hospitalisations and deaths are lower, but spread is not. Note lower not zero. When dealing with large numbers, sadly some will come out for the worse. Will be an interesting week for cases. I noted the U.K. has followed Nadia relatively closely, just offset by time.
As for prophylaxis, Regeneron were granted an updated label in the US for prevention for n high risk settings. That’s good news for those who won’t respond to vaccines.
Thanks Piers. I’d missed the new “magnetic” anti-vaccine nonsense. Proper bonkers.
The grift never ends
Pretty shady!
Maybe going off topic, but the prank they did on Katie Hopkins is worth a watch
That video is simply brilliant.
I can't read Regeneron without thinking -
Anyone know how the ping / isolation system works. My wife got a notification yesterday but only for 6 days i assumed it was a flat 10? Shes NHS so has been double jabbed for ages so hoping she will be fine. Wasn't the pub she was at with all our friends the day before only assuming its the train or something like that. Obvs doing a lateral flow / pcr and all that jazz.
It's 10 days since you were in contact with the person who tested positive, so the contact was four days ago, six days left.
It’s 10 days since you were in contact with the person who tested positive, so the contact was four days ago, six days left.
oh wow thats so bad. Granted there are extremely high numbers of people getting pinged but for the previous 4 days shes been going to work and socialising as normal. Cheers for the info. We got a walk in test centre down the road so will both be making a visit today
The person may not have known they were ill for a couple of days, couple of days for the test to be done and then uploaded on the app, its about as good as it can be to be honest.
You can only act on information you have Joe. If we're to believe it a lot of people have deleted the app simply because they don't want to know. I prefer to make informed choices myself. 🤷
It sounds like we really need an update from Australia… what are the military up to?
Well, apparently there were no significant anti-lockdown protests at the weekend, so military/police presence may have influenced that. Or the Olympics was too compelling?
Four day lockdown was announced in Brisbane and south-east Queendland at the weekend when a school student tested positive with Delta strain out of the blue. 18 cases found over two days and of course they're tracing like mad. I expect this means we'll be in lockdown for at least a month. Presser in 20 mins will be interesting ...
Lockdown reg's are fairly strict. All schools shut except for vulnerable and essential workers' kids. Masks for high school kids and teachers of kids of all ages (unless teaching deaf kids).
10km exercise limit - exercise in a mask unless you can't breathe.
Queues are building at the testing centres, etc.
Vaccination rate are climbing as fast as possible ...
So Queensland got an extra 15 cases out of 21,000 tests. All under 40yo. 10 of them are under 10 years old.
Lockdown extended to Sunday.
Yeah - there is nothing hugely interesting to report here in NSW - we are still in lockdown, 8 local council areas more than others - if you live in one of those, you can't leave, even if you can't work from home - essential workers only.
A few things have changed:
Building sites are open again (Construction is a huge driver of the economy here) - but if you live in one of those 8 local council areas, you can't leave to go to a building site anyway.
The "health advice" has changed - all over 18s should now receive the AZ vaccine. Because of the clotting risks, it was previously only 60+ getting the AZ, and 40-60 Pfizer (18-40 could get the AZ after consultation with their GP). So we've gone from a complete dogs breakfast of constantly changing and poorly communicated messages re: vaccine populations, to an incredibly simple one! hooray!
AZ is now being given on a walk-in basis in lots of places, including pharmacies. Looks like demand is good - but we'll see what the coming weeks bring.
16-18 year olds (currently doing their HSCs - A-level equivalent) are being given the pfizer jab as a priority, to allow them to go back to school and do their exams. Pfizer doses are being diverted from other populations to achieve this, which is causing a bit of a kerfuffle.
Oh - a report has been published over the weekend detailing what level of vaccination we need to get to , to be able to unlock. I haven't read it yet (because 2 kids in lockdown at the weekend) - but I've heard 70-80% of over 18s is the target, and the plan is to get there by December. We'll see.
Yeah, the army have been brought in to help the police with knocking on doors - making sure that people who are supposed to be self isolating actually are doing so. People aren't particularly alarmed about it, the chain of command is clear and they've done it before the first time around..... it's no big deal.
What else? errrrm. Oh, my Ikea order got delayed by 4 days because all the delivery drivers are self isolating, and my hellofresh box is going to be late again for the same reason.
I haven't been surfing for 5 weeks now: bad times. But some artisanal coffee beans have just arrived, so things are looking up
Yeah, the army have been brought in to help the police with knocking on doors – making sure that people who are supposed to be self isolating actually are doing so.
I got an absolute pasting on here last year suggesting the army could be supporting the Police with lickdown rules 🤣
Aye, but who would they lickdown? 🤣
