[Closed] What's it all about, all this arguing on here? Serious question.

say's one of the main culprits............. 🙄

A desperate need to feel good about myself.

I practise a kind of Zen indifference.

Noteeth... and no-mind!

a desperate need for al's approval

I am always right so I don't really see where the arguments are......

Give him a fist pie ton!

I avoid conflict, I saw plenty of it when my parents went through a divorce when I was very young, but still old enough to remember 🙁

Male thing innit. Pecking order.

No, come on; seriously. You put a lot of effort into arguing on here, some of youse lot, so how about a bit of effort on this one, then maybe we can all gain something positive from it.

Meh.

I can't be doing with it, tbh it's ruining this forum

Life's little cycle, ain't it! You spend your formative years being told what to do; you get an education; you then spend a period of your life after you've been educated, know it all and are always right on STW; you then grow up, mellow, and smile knowingly to yourself at the angst-ridden youngsters [s]debating[/s] arguing on STW; then, just when you think you're totally chilled you get all Victor Meldrew and start writing letters to your local press, being totally intolerant of the slightest thing. Oh, hang on a minute ~ it would appear that MTBers get to that point somewhat earlier in the cycle... 8)

Me; I thrive on conflict, but then I am quite angry. It's like a game of chess, a challenge. There's a need to 'win', even if it's quite a trivial thing.

Must be hard then to keep coming on here and getting beaten. 🙂

i steer clear of all post's written by certain people, because i know it will end in a argument.
i am sure people steer clear of ones written by me cos i talk bollox.

I like argument. But not hostility.

A few hundred years ago an argument would have been settled by a duel, and over very quickly.

Nowadays arguments just rumble on and on and on because even when someone delivers the killer blow the other party just keeps arguing for the sake of it.

Agree with you Ton, though it's hard as those people post on every other thread

I get annoyed when people either a) think I'm stupid or immoral or something and b) are labouring under misapprehensions of some kind.

So I have to try and fix it.

I don't argue when things are a matter of opinion, but sometimes people've got the wrong end of the stick entirely and are not getting the point at all. Once you've understood the issue you are free to disagree, that's all fine and dandy. But I just can't abide confusion, especially when people think they have got it but haven't, and when they are making judgements based on a missed point.

[i]even when someone delivers the killer blow the other party just keeps arguing for the sake of it.[/i]

[img] [/img]

Sums up most arguments on STW... 😀

I just come on here to talk utter, utter sh1te. I really don't feel the need to win arguments here, I have to do that plenty enough in my job and the real world; this place is therapy.

Maybe if people could post pictures of their depressed little faces I'd get that real world satisfaction and be more inclined to try and beat you into submission with my intellect...

i enjoy discussing things if it stays civil but sometimes you get sucked in forget to breathe and type b0ll0cks. you tend to end up having the same debates with polar opposites who have equally intransient views and the cycle continues. My epiphany has not been as great as yours but I am trying to ease off.I mainly read the nukes thread for example and am less anti than before.
Some people on here are idiots though and it is hard to not say so when they say omething stupid so Ton shhh - just testing to see if he reads mine 😉

13thfloormonk and I were discussing this in the pub last night. We both thought it was pretty amazing that his thread on winter camping hadn't resulted in arguments (e.g. is it right or wrong to cook inside a tent). I't certainly case that some people on here seem to thrive on disagreement. I know at least one of those is also like that in real life, but I wonder if all the rest are.

I can get involved sometime, but tend to have my say then bow out. I know I'm unlikely to change anyones politics or religion, but I will sometimes labour a point if someone is handing out advice that I disagree with. Along with some others, I will also sometimes adopt a contrary position just for the hell of it 😉

Meh.

See, that's actually a very interesting post there. CFH. On the surface, it appears that the person isn't interested, yet the intention is to gain some form of attention, even if it's only to express disinterest! Perhaps even a tentative gesture to become part of the discussion actually; a first test shot, before other 'big guns' arrive. No?

CFH; I feel you, and many others on here have a lot of valuable insight to add to this. Fair enough if you really don't want to, but I wouldn't want anyone to feel intimidated by such questions. In light of the sentiment expressed by several on here recently, for the forum to be a more welcoming and happy place for us to share, I just thought it might be helpful to talk about why some of us feel compelled to 'fight' with others.

I can't be doing with it, tbh it's ruining this forum

I disagree; personally, I feel that folk should feel free to discuss and debate issues they feel strongly about. I doubt that most people have the freedom to do this at work, or with friends/family, as it's not socially acceptable. I think a forum serves a very important function, as it allows such debate to happen without more potentially harmful consequences as might occur in the 'real' world.

I would agree that too much arguing can get tedious and off-putting for others, however.

fred, last sentence..........study it.

There are some on here that post with such apparent unquestionable authority, that it would be rude not to challenge them.

Oh - I should have added - as far a the politics threads go, I think that for many folk it is sheer frustration. Having "lost" the election, they are now feeling that they need somewhere to express their dis-satisfaction and the idea of waiting another 4-5 years is causing a lot of this.

I'd suggest that many of the most verbose contributors should consider doing something about it away form STW, like joining a political party and actually becoming an activist, or even becoming councillors, MPs, MSP themselves.

druidh - Member
Oh - I should have added - as far a the politics threads go, I think that for many folk it is sheer frustration. Having "lost" the election,

Druid lights the blue touchpaper and retires to a safe distance.

I got v cross a couple of days ago about something on here, felt a bit silly afterwards really

Buzz - your first post... is this your own motivation for 'debating' on here, or a suggestion as to what might motivate others?

Got called an idiot & told to piss off in a thread the other day by someone, he pissed me off by talking to me in that manner that I told him to **** off, which he didn't like.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people on here can give abuse but can't take any back.

I tend to just type stream of conciousness crap! sometimes as a bit of a wind up. I can be a bit opinionated or have a point of view, or sommmat, but then it can change the next day. I do wonder about the bods sat on here all day arguing a point when they could be out on their bikes or doinfg something more productive. but some of the "debates" can be really interesting and educational, it's obvious to me there are some really intelligent people on here. It's better than x-factor at least.

Do you like a good argue? Do you crave conflict/victory? Do you need the gratification that comes from 'winning'?

yes I enjoy arguing, but it's not about winning, it's about taking part - and in fact I'd rather not reach a conclusion as then it has to stop 🙁 Sadly we don't get many good arguments as many posters soon give in to pointless invective and name calling once they run out of ideas 🙁

Forums are mostly anonymous (although STW differs in as much as a lot of us do actually meet other forum dwellers from time to time) so it is easier for people to be more aggressive in their postings while hiding behind the keyboard. Plus, debating in the written word can easily cause misunderstandings because their is no inflection, irony is hard to portray, etc.. And some people even reinvent themselves quite regularly 😯

fred, last sentence..........study it.

I have, Ton. that's the whole point of this thread.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

For me - sometimes attempting to show others an alternative point of view, even trying to persuade them it is right.

Sometimes its because something people say appears ludicrous to me

Sometimes just for the sport of the debate

However there is also a few folk on here who completely misunderstand me and that also gets frustrating. Both in my motives and my point of view.
I do not have a need to win every argument - its not a win / lose thing for me. The issue is my inability to say meh! enough! and to understand that no ones mind will be changed.

I also need to be able to leave it when folk have clearly misunderstood - that I find harder

I need to make my point and walk away

An example is on the nukes threads. I try to do this then someone either completly distorts waht I say or askes mea na outright question - sucking me back in again

I would hope people can see that I have been making some attempt to debate rather than argue and to walk away when enough is enough.

There are a good few folk with this failing tho - and when a few of us get on a thread on differing sides is when it all goes ratshit.

I should have this printed out and stuck o my computer

[img] [/img]

I dislike tripe.

I come here to witness this......

[img] [/img]

*blows kisses to Elfin*

😉

tedious and off-putting for others,about right 😥

also, I think some people use it as a "sounding board", put your idea/opinion out and see what comes back - see what others think.

druidh - Member
Oh - I should have added - as far a the politics threads go, I think that for many folk it is sheer frustration. Having "lost" the election,

Not so for me.

I admit to great frustration at the stupidity of Osbourne and Camerons policies but I fully accept the outcome as being what it is.

this is one of those subjects where I want to alert everyone to the stupidity hence banging on about it.

TandemJeremy - Member

this is one of those subjects where I want to alert everyone to the stupidity hence banging on about it.

Well, for a start, it's not "everyone", it's only a few folk on this forum and you are converting no one.

Secondly, what's done is done. Unless you are actually going to start a revolution, there's little point repeating it. Therefore, it [i]is[/i] frustration on your part and ICMFP.

Its not frustration at having "lost" but frustration at others inability to understand the damage that is being done. Its not the same thing at all.

However as I alluded to above its recognising that I have made my point and walking away I find hard - but I am working on this

boredom.. an inability to suffer fools gladly.. intolerance of rudeness.. and far [i]far[/i] too much bluster are to blame in my case...

Here we go... 😀

Interesting to notice that some of the replies themselves are antagonistic, intentionally or otherwise, as are the tags.

Surely it's in our nature to argue? I mean, we're all different, with differing needs, ideas and philosophies, so achieving consensus or compromise requires at least some arguing, right?

TJ and Onion: no arguing on this thread please... 😉

The purpose of this is to explore how I, and then hopefully others, can understand the need to argue, and what we get from it. And then hopefully to be able to explore this issue, and develop strategies for more positive and productive relations and interaction.

I do feel that some are holding back somewhat, though. Please, don't feel scared to share. It's not about judging; it's about understanding.

I think we had political threads when Labour were in power and we will continue to debate issues.
TJ walk away 😆

However there is also a few folk on here who completely misunderstand me and that also gets frustrating.

Yeah that is true I think. However as discussed before a few times, the burden is on US to make ouselves understood. So if someone misunderstands you it's really your fault not theirs, and you can't get cross with them. You just have to say 'look, let me put it another way'.

What seems to happen with you TJ is that you think your point hasn't been understood when it has, and you then labour it into some perverse corner where it's no longer appropriate 🙂 Rather than learning to walk away, which is sad and ultimately unsatisfying for everyone, you need to learn to step back, scroll back and try and figure out what went wrong; then rephrase or come in from another angle.

elfinsafety

houns - I can't be doing with it, tbh it's ruining this forum

I disagree

LOL

SKILZ 😳

 

[i]I do feel that some are holding back somewhat, though. Please, don't feel scared to share. It's not about judging; it's about understanding.[/i]

Bollocks to that, I'm judging 🙂

Elfinsafety

I ask this, because I've become more aware of this 'need' within myself, and how I can perhaps achieve the same sense of satisfaction, the same gratification, through more positive and productive pursuits.

Do you compete in any of the sports you partake in? Have you thought about taking up a sport purely so you can compete in it?

I'm not sure that pursuing sporting excellence (or whatever it is amateur competitors pursue!) is either more productive or positive than web arguing, but at a guess I'd say it is... maybe that's a possible route to satisfaction? Or if not sporting, perhaps debating... heaven help the poor ****er on the other side ;/

As for me? limited web time, no other threads to read, I know I shouldn't post on the political threads but sometimes just cave in and do. Don't crave victory (in this), but do like putting a contradictory post in every now and again. Especially when people are Coalition bashing as if Labour had behaved as the Saviour reborn in their last period of governance.

LOL at [u]rutting for nerds[/u]!

TandemJeremy - Member
Its not frustration at having "lost" but frustration at others inability to understand the damage that is being done. Its not the same thing at all.

So, we can agree that you are doing it out of frustration. All you need to do now is accept that you are going to change nobodies opinion by arguing about it on an internet forum.

I think it's a bit like footie, because it's mostly meaningless, people can throw themselves uncompromisingly into pointless blazing rows in a way they can't in 'real life'.

I don't kid myself that anyone really needs to understand or agree with what I say, if they don't, then fair enough, their opinion is as valid as mine. Having to be right all the time must be incredibly tiring and frustrating. Oh, and arrogant.

Mostly I just try to be helpful. Or annoying.

Markie; I play football regularly. I enjoy that. I used to get wound up too often, but am much more mellow now.

'Competing' on here is of a more intellectual nature. Over time, I have come to relise, on reflection, that although I do argue a lot with folk, I also do enjoy it somewhat. However; a certain recent very sad event made me think more about the consequences of my words. I'll admit I've been upset by other people's comments on here of occasion. And to be honest, I've been a bit nasty myself sometimes.

Meeting several people off here has also made me realise that people can be perfectly lovely in real life, and I feel there's still loads I would like to meet. If I continue to be antagonistic towards others, then the potential for happy, positive relationships could be reduced. Which would be a bad thing, I think. Sure, there are those who I really couldn't give a fig about, but then there are others who I may very well get along with quite well, in spite of having arguments on here with them. For example; I was quite mean to Captain Flashheart the other night, which was wrong of me, and I don't actually want to be, or be perceived to be, a nasty hateful person.

So, how to achieve a happy compromise; argue but without hate.

That, I fear, is a very difficult thing to do.

I find it is often the most (apparently) intelligent people that flatly refuse to listen to another person's point of view or ever accept they might actually be wrong.

.

Nail hit on head M_F

If some of you invested as much time in something constructive as you do in policing the internet from your bedsits then the world would surely be a better place.

[i]Pirate radio eflin, RINCEing the filth from a middleclass internet forum[/i]

All you need to do now is accept that you are going to change nobodies opinion by arguing about it on an internet forum.

Yup - thats the one I find hard.

My lesson is clearly to know when to walk away

i suspect some autistic traits have been exposed in me by the form of the debates on here.

I am also sure so much nuance is lost in posting when you don't get to see a body language and inflection

Surely it's in our nature to argue?

It's a good point DJGlover makes, you know.

Big up an nuff respect to the STW massive; don't touch that dial......

[img] [/img]

I do accept when I am wrong - have done many times.

I do find it very hard when people think they have understood the point but clearly have not no matter how I try to explain it. Not that they disagree with what I say - that I can accept.

Once this situation has happened there is no coming back from it - and I havce seen it occur between other folk as well.

Some members will argue a thread into the ground. It becomes more about them than the subject. Witness the Hinkley C thread. Could have been interesting. But no, ruined again. Also, the thread about the stag being killed, again, just a battle of who can keep posting between the main protagonists. Just gets boring.

Arguing with Effinchafing is good fun though.

TandemJeremy - Member
I do accept when I am wrong - have done many times.

not always!

it is quite simple really , those few who think they know everything just annoy the hell out those us that do 😉

Now I feel I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't there are a number of points at least partly addressed to me I would like to answer but I am sure it just end up in bickering

One thing I will say is to DD - I learnt a lesson off that stag thread.

In the whole scheme of things who actually gives a toss about the opinion of some geeks that are glued to an Internet forum 24 hours a day. I log on from time to time but see the same folks arguing on any old post. Guys get out more and see some of the real world.

I have seen innocent posts from less regular users ruined by regular users. Arguing amoungst yourself for self gratification and one upmanship only puts less regular users off. These folks may actually have something useful to bring to this forum.

I now expect the full wrath of said geeks I mention above. I look forward to your comments!! I now duck for cover

I can't be doing with it, tbh it's ruining this forum

+1

The greatest lesson is you can't win an argument.

Also some people just don't care

I can't be arsed reading all this shit. And for you who are under any illusions; it is meaningless shit. Are you aware of this? But in answer to the original question:

do i still get to give Hora a wedgie?

The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion. . . . . 😯

Guys get out more and see some of the real world.

Interesting, because as one of those 'geeks glued to the internet 24 hours a day', I have to say that I've met so many people off here I've lost count. I'm good friends with some of them. Been on a fair few rides, even involved in a mountain biking/music/beer festival event that was organised by someone off here. Indeed, only 2 weeks ago today, I was at this time of night staggering home from a night drinking with an STWer who lives all the way up in Scotland.

See, I think networks such as those formed on forums such as this are just as important and 'real' as those formed in the 'real world'. Why shouldn't they be? It's just another form of communication after all. The internet is great for negating the physical distance between people, enabling people to interact and form relationships with others they other wise might never have anything to do with. Is that not a good thing?

I care more about what some folk on here think, than I do about some of my neighbours. Because I've got more in common with the bods on here. An internet forum opens up far more possibilities for communication and relationships than ever previously possible. Embrace it, don't fear it.

Oh and another one, discussion is an exchange of knowledge; argument is an exchange of ignorance. . . . . 😯

do i still get to give Hora a wedgie?

See, the internet, through all it's infinite AWESOMENESS, allows us all to be party to the necessary torture of Hora.

😀

Can you give him a Chinese Burn for me please Binners? And get my £140 off him. Ta.

Perhaps humans are just genetically setup to spend time talking to each other.

Over hundreds of thousands of years, those of our ancestors who got together under a deep purple African sky, lit by trillions of stars, gathered around the glowing embers of the fire, picking the last bits of meat from their antelope, were better able to hunt, survive and reproduce.

The groups that tried to get by in dumb animal silence ended up being out-competed and vanished.

So now, in our modern 21st century world, where opportunities for hunting wild animals in groups out on the savannah are a bit limited, our brains still crave the same experience, and so keep coming back to this ersatz version of that ancient ritual.

[img] [/img]

I don't think we argue here a lot. Well, the exceptions being SFB and photography, TJ and HR/unions/politics/HELMETS, ton and human relations, and Elf and LFC.
What we do here is to enlighten the dark minds of the commoner folk who don't frequent the Holy Grail of Chat Forum often enough. We tell them what they need to know and what they should do, how they must live their lives and who they should shag. Oh, sometimes we also discuss the merits of SS 29er full-sus URT platform-shocked design from more obscure than obscurest Mid-Midlands-based organic barn steel frame designer, for which we should all appologise.

Elf- in the whole I do embrace this form and in part enjoy the banter, who wouldn't. From a less frequent poster point of view: I tend to find many threads over ran by a minority spouting off amoungst themselves and more often than not completely off topic.

All in all though I would rather have acces to a forum like this than nothing at all, there are some good characters on here. I however have freedom of choice that's why I ignore many topics when they descend into petty arguing.

yeah, what happened to The Binners and Hora show?, that's a laugh, buddies having a bit of banter. Not the tedious look-at-me, posturing of opinion.

yeah whatever kevevs... in your opinion maybe.

Don't worry guys, I'm still here being hilarious.