[Closed] What's it all about, all this arguing on here? Serious question.

Here we go... 😀

Interesting to notice that some of the replies themselves are antagonistic, intentionally or otherwise, as are the tags.

Surely it's in our nature to argue? I mean, we're all different, with differing needs, ideas and philosophies, so achieving consensus or compromise requires at least some arguing, right?

TJ and Onion: no arguing on this thread please... 😉

The purpose of this is to explore how I, and then hopefully others, can understand the need to argue, and what we get from it. And then hopefully to be able to explore this issue, and develop strategies for more positive and productive relations and interaction.

I do feel that some are holding back somewhat, though. Please, don't feel scared to share. It's not about judging; it's about understanding.

I think we had political threads when Labour were in power and we will continue to debate issues.
TJ walk away 😆

However there is also a few folk on here who completely misunderstand me and that also gets frustrating.

Yeah that is true I think. However as discussed before a few times, the burden is on US to make ouselves understood. So if someone misunderstands you it's really your fault not theirs, and you can't get cross with them. You just have to say 'look, let me put it another way'.

What seems to happen with you TJ is that you think your point hasn't been understood when it has, and you then labour it into some perverse corner where it's no longer appropriate 🙂 Rather than learning to walk away, which is sad and ultimately unsatisfying for everyone, you need to learn to step back, scroll back and try and figure out what went wrong; then rephrase or come in from another angle.

elfinsafety

houns - I can't be doing with it, tbh it's ruining this forum

I disagree

LOL

SKILZ 😳

 

[i]I do feel that some are holding back somewhat, though. Please, don't feel scared to share. It's not about judging; it's about understanding.[/i]

Bollocks to that, I'm judging 🙂

Elfinsafety

I ask this, because I've become more aware of this 'need' within myself, and how I can perhaps achieve the same sense of satisfaction, the same gratification, through more positive and productive pursuits.

Do you compete in any of the sports you partake in? Have you thought about taking up a sport purely so you can compete in it?

I'm not sure that pursuing sporting excellence (or whatever it is amateur competitors pursue!) is either more productive or positive than web arguing, but at a guess I'd say it is... maybe that's a possible route to satisfaction? Or if not sporting, perhaps debating... heaven help the poor ****er on the other side ;/

As for me? limited web time, no other threads to read, I know I shouldn't post on the political threads but sometimes just cave in and do. Don't crave victory (in this), but do like putting a contradictory post in every now and again. Especially when people are Coalition bashing as if Labour had behaved as the Saviour reborn in their last period of governance.

LOL at [u]rutting for nerds[/u]!

TandemJeremy - Member
Its not frustration at having "lost" but frustration at others inability to understand the damage that is being done. Its not the same thing at all.

So, we can agree that you are doing it out of frustration. All you need to do now is accept that you are going to change nobodies opinion by arguing about it on an internet forum.

I think it's a bit like footie, because it's mostly meaningless, people can throw themselves uncompromisingly into pointless blazing rows in a way they can't in 'real life'.

I don't kid myself that anyone really needs to understand or agree with what I say, if they don't, then fair enough, their opinion is as valid as mine. Having to be right all the time must be incredibly tiring and frustrating. Oh, and arrogant.

Mostly I just try to be helpful. Or annoying.

Markie; I play football regularly. I enjoy that. I used to get wound up too often, but am much more mellow now.

'Competing' on here is of a more intellectual nature. Over time, I have come to relise, on reflection, that although I do argue a lot with folk, I also do enjoy it somewhat. However; a certain recent very sad event made me think more about the consequences of my words. I'll admit I've been upset by other people's comments on here of occasion. And to be honest, I've been a bit nasty myself sometimes.

Meeting several people off here has also made me realise that people can be perfectly lovely in real life, and I feel there's still loads I would like to meet. If I continue to be antagonistic towards others, then the potential for happy, positive relationships could be reduced. Which would be a bad thing, I think. Sure, there are those who I really couldn't give a fig about, but then there are others who I may very well get along with quite well, in spite of having arguments on here with them. For example; I was quite mean to Captain Flashheart the other night, which was wrong of me, and I don't actually want to be, or be perceived to be, a nasty hateful person.

So, how to achieve a happy compromise; argue but without hate.

That, I fear, is a very difficult thing to do.

I find it is often the most (apparently) intelligent people that flatly refuse to listen to another person's point of view or ever accept they might actually be wrong.

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Nail hit on head M_F

If some of you invested as much time in something constructive as you do in policing the internet from your bedsits then the world would surely be a better place.

[i]Pirate radio eflin, RINCEing the filth from a middleclass internet forum[/i]

All you need to do now is accept that you are going to change nobodies opinion by arguing about it on an internet forum.

Yup - thats the one I find hard.

My lesson is clearly to know when to walk away

i suspect some autistic traits have been exposed in me by the form of the debates on here.

I am also sure so much nuance is lost in posting when you don't get to see a body language and inflection

Surely it's in our nature to argue?

It's a good point DJGlover makes, you know.

Big up an nuff respect to the STW massive; don't touch that dial......

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I do accept when I am wrong - have done many times.

I do find it very hard when people think they have understood the point but clearly have not no matter how I try to explain it. Not that they disagree with what I say - that I can accept.

Once this situation has happened there is no coming back from it - and I havce seen it occur between other folk as well.

Some members will argue a thread into the ground. It becomes more about them than the subject. Witness the Hinkley C thread. Could have been interesting. But no, ruined again. Also, the thread about the stag being killed, again, just a battle of who can keep posting between the main protagonists. Just gets boring.

Arguing with Effinchafing is good fun though.

TandemJeremy - Member
I do accept when I am wrong - have done many times.

not always!

it is quite simple really , those few who think they know everything just annoy the hell out those us that do 😉

Now I feel I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't there are a number of points at least partly addressed to me I would like to answer but I am sure it just end up in bickering

One thing I will say is to DD - I learnt a lesson off that stag thread.

In the whole scheme of things who actually gives a toss about the opinion of some geeks that are glued to an Internet forum 24 hours a day. I log on from time to time but see the same folks arguing on any old post. Guys get out more and see some of the real world.

I have seen innocent posts from less regular users ruined by regular users. Arguing amoungst yourself for self gratification and one upmanship only puts less regular users off. These folks may actually have something useful to bring to this forum.

I now expect the full wrath of said geeks I mention above. I look forward to your comments!! I now duck for cover

I can't be doing with it, tbh it's ruining this forum

+1

The greatest lesson is you can't win an argument.

Also some people just don't care

I can't be arsed reading all this shit. And for you who are under any illusions; it is meaningless shit. Are you aware of this? But in answer to the original question:

do i still get to give Hora a wedgie?

The thing I hate about an argument is that it always interrupts a discussion. . . . . 😯

Guys get out more and see some of the real world.

Interesting, because as one of those 'geeks glued to the internet 24 hours a day', I have to say that I've met so many people off here I've lost count. I'm good friends with some of them. Been on a fair few rides, even involved in a mountain biking/music/beer festival event that was organised by someone off here. Indeed, only 2 weeks ago today, I was at this time of night staggering home from a night drinking with an STWer who lives all the way up in Scotland.

See, I think networks such as those formed on forums such as this are just as important and 'real' as those formed in the 'real world'. Why shouldn't they be? It's just another form of communication after all. The internet is great for negating the physical distance between people, enabling people to interact and form relationships with others they other wise might never have anything to do with. Is that not a good thing?

I care more about what some folk on here think, than I do about some of my neighbours. Because I've got more in common with the bods on here. An internet forum opens up far more possibilities for communication and relationships than ever previously possible. Embrace it, don't fear it.

Oh and another one, discussion is an exchange of knowledge; argument is an exchange of ignorance. . . . . 😯

do i still get to give Hora a wedgie?

See, the internet, through all it's infinite AWESOMENESS, allows us all to be party to the necessary torture of Hora.

😀

Can you give him a Chinese Burn for me please Binners? And get my £140 off him. Ta.

Perhaps humans are just genetically setup to spend time talking to each other.

Over hundreds of thousands of years, those of our ancestors who got together under a deep purple African sky, lit by trillions of stars, gathered around the glowing embers of the fire, picking the last bits of meat from their antelope, were better able to hunt, survive and reproduce.

The groups that tried to get by in dumb animal silence ended up being out-competed and vanished.

So now, in our modern 21st century world, where opportunities for hunting wild animals in groups out on the savannah are a bit limited, our brains still crave the same experience, and so keep coming back to this ersatz version of that ancient ritual.

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I don't think we argue here a lot. Well, the exceptions being SFB and photography, TJ and HR/unions/politics/HELMETS, ton and human relations, and Elf and LFC.
What we do here is to enlighten the dark minds of the commoner folk who don't frequent the Holy Grail of Chat Forum often enough. We tell them what they need to know and what they should do, how they must live their lives and who they should shag. Oh, sometimes we also discuss the merits of SS 29er full-sus URT platform-shocked design from more obscure than obscurest Mid-Midlands-based organic barn steel frame designer, for which we should all appologise.

Elf- in the whole I do embrace this form and in part enjoy the banter, who wouldn't. From a less frequent poster point of view: I tend to find many threads over ran by a minority spouting off amoungst themselves and more often than not completely off topic.

All in all though I would rather have acces to a forum like this than nothing at all, there are some good characters on here. I however have freedom of choice that's why I ignore many topics when they descend into petty arguing.

yeah, what happened to The Binners and Hora show?, that's a laugh, buddies having a bit of banter. Not the tedious look-at-me, posturing of opinion.

yeah whatever kevevs... in your opinion maybe.

Don't worry guys, I'm still here being hilarious.

The arguing is not about attention seeking, of course it's not.

When engaged in an argument it's usually due to one of two things:

a) being misconstrued really pisses some people off and
b) if you have considered something and you feel you have a valid point, you want it properly acknowledged and your intellect respected.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind when I argue, that'd be ridiculous - at least when it's an academic point. I just want my input acknowledged and either taken into account or rejected for real reasons.

allright, not posturing maybe, but there's definitely an attention-seeker thing to a lot of those threads, once they reach a certain point. People like attention and to be listened to, some more than others. are you, like, disagreeing with me? 😉

People like attention and to be listened to, some more than others

Yes. Also, the 'alpha male' thing as mentioned in the tags is worthy of consideration. There's definitely that going on every single day on here. But then, surely some people simply are 'leaders', and others content to be led? Indeed, some comments on here, plus the tags, suggests a frustration in some that they can't themselves be someone with more 'status'. This applies in the 'real world' too; I've seen power-struggles in the workplace that make this forum look pretty tame. Yes, it's about jostling for position, vying for attention. Why go on a forum if you [i]don't[/i] want attention?

There's also the odd forum member who likes to come on just to stir up trouble, gain some sort of notoriety; feed off the negative responses from others. One or two of those I think are quite disturbing, and I suspect have issues they could benefit from addressing.

the 'alpha male' thing

Okay, I'll assume the role of the shrink for this thread (clearly gaining alpha status in the process) and ask 'why'? What is lacking in your life outside the forum that drives a need to proove alpha status on here?

Where do you sit in your organisations professionally?
And how do you feel towards your superiors at work?
Have you ever been accused of being too controlling in your personal life?

Good question, Yeti...

I don't separate the forum from any other area where I feel the need to win. I've always been quite competitive, yet strangely not compelled towards competitive sports really other than footy. I like the odd little race against mates on a bike, but I'm not quite so bothered if I don't win there. it's the more intellectual challenges I relish.

Maybe some people are just naturally more driven to 'need' to win than others. But in different areas as well.

It's an interesting question that. I'll have to go away and ponder that one....

I dare say somebody's feeling a winner for posting some of those tags. Well done, you must feel ever so proud of yourself! 😆

The couch is always open Elfin. First session is free. I feel you're making great progress already, many multiples of hours therapy later and I'm sure we'll have you all fixed up and as good as new.

To anyone who is too unsure about their opinion to resort to tagging... I'm running a discounted 5 week nightly session on assertiveness in the SingleTrackWorld, I'll have you ranting in the most incoherent, within post, manner in no time... or your money back.

molgrips - Member

The arguing is not about attention seeking, of course it's not.

When engaged in an argument it's usually due to one of two things:

a) being misconstrued really pisses some people off and
b) if you have considered something and you feel you have a valid point, you want it properly acknowledged and your intellect respected.

I have to say that is a spot on post. I would agree with both of these points.

For me its far more that than either a need to win or any sort of alpha male thing.

I know people think I have to win but thats not what it ia about at all to me.

people are here for different reasons but nobody knows each other's, this is why difficulties arise

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I'd imagine masturbating with a cheesegrater isn't even slightly amusing. Arguing with one on the other hand...