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I can see [url= http://www.national-front.org.uk/ ]them[/url] joining the fun. Holy sheets!
Say anything bad and you will be branded a racist by the STW sandal wearing do gooders
be warned
Oh dear indeed 🙁
I dont see whats wrong with it. If Muslim troops were in the UK dropping 2,000lb bombs on British wedding celebrations with innocents killed on a regular basis we'd all be up in arms against them wouldnt we?
If this Islamic group feel so strongley then why don't they f^ck off and go and live in an Islamic state and leave us alone...and yes I know we are over in islamic countries fighting a war that we shouldn't be. Lets face it these islamic groups do anything to cause trouble. Not a peacefull religion IMO. 😈
It is a peaceful religion - it is the lunatic disaffected fringe that carry out violent acts.
How about implementing laws equivalent to those in some Muslim countries? Not a RC goer? Stone him publicly. Wears a beard? Kick him out of the country. A woman with no tits on display? Make her read Daily Mail.
IGMC
best possible outcome is to let them march and have the streets deserted.
When did we become a militarised society?
Other small towns exist,for a demonstration.
hora - Member
When did we become a militarised society?
Or should you say " when did we become pro British"
They are just trying to push the boundaries of this countries tollerance.
I dont agree with our boys being out there. But these islamic groups are just using this as an excuse to further their own agenda.
I wonder what the brave guys on the front line think of this type of thing happening back home? If I were them Id wonder why was I bothering risking life and limb in the name of these type of people back home.
Out of interest, how many British-asians are serving in the British forces? the casualty list seems to suggest very few or none at all.
Too Tall - Could do with hearing a bit more from the peaceful devoted condemning the extremists IMO
tyger - we'd not listen. They are condemned, but don't get the publicity in the media. The Islamic community leaders are pretty vocal within their community - which is where it is needed.
Well we should support the right to demonstrate I suppose; but then we should also be prepared to demonstrate if we disagree.
It is interesting that such anger is raised by these so called Islamic extremist groups when the blatantly neo- Nazi English Defense League(I think thats what they are called) seems to turn up at friday prayers at the Harrow mosque in a deliberate provocative manner. Double standards IMO.
Play the 'shop scene' from This is England on huge screens with a PA system.
They do have a legal right to protest regardless of how much you or I disagree. There does seem to be an irony that they're choosing to protest about our conduct when such a protest in their idealised Islamic society would be illegal.
I have a feeling that if this goes ahead there will be a severe and violent backlash against the protesters and will likely be banned by the police beforehand. Which leaves me ambivalent anyway because I despise the laws banning protests.
^^^^^Link please, can't find it.^^^^^
If Muslim troops were in the UK dropping 2,000lb bombs on British wedding celebrations with innocents killed on a regular basis we'd all be up in arms against them wouldnt we?
We would indeed.
And guess how well it would go down if we tried to demonstrate against it in Kabul?
Bollocks its a peaceful religion, even the Spanish inquisition were tame in comparision to the origions of Islam, and for **** sake dont voice your opinion about it as they'll send a nutter to kill you.
@ hairy chested. 'This is England - Shop Scene' into YouTube. Controversial at best!
I'm going out on the town in abit. I suggest some of you would benefit from getting out abit more.
Just to add. Why should it go ahead? Soldiers go out there to do a job. They signed up for the armed forces knowing it may come to death/injury (of course no one wants to die). However innocents out there have no choice- they die and there doesnt seem a let up does there?
Iraq? Toppling Saddam brought what? Constant ****ing bombings of innocent civillian lives in the hundreds every month.
What has Blair achieved? Why did we invade these countries again? If you are Muslim- what would you feel? Perspective fellas. Going abroad and kicking down peoples doors isnt going to stop resentment is it?
If you are truly patriotic you should be petitioning the Government as to why we are churning through lives and is the conflict really winnable after the Soviet-lesson?
An absolute peach, thanks!
BTW Am I allowed to laugh watching it as a non-Brit? 😉
Dales_rider - you are today's small-minded, ill educated bigot and I claim my £10.
the Soviet/Afghan 'lesson' is not the only one we/oour glorious leaders should be learning from.
I think there was a British/Afghan lesson to be learnt from back in the 19th Century.
When will people learn? Afghanistan cannot be "conquered", as it is, in large parts away from the bigger cities, tribal and possibly even feudal.
Take away one government & replace it with another, any flavour, it will make bugger all difference out in the hills
While they are there we should support our troops, at the same time making it bloody clear to the outgoing government here what we really think of it all.
And to get back on topic, "I disagree with what you say but I'll fight for your right to say it". John Lennon? Mark Twain?
"Iraq? Toppling Saddam brought what? Constant **** bombings of innocent civillian lives in the hundreds every month. "
I think you'll find it is their own people doing that to them, they can't even agree which version of islam is best FFS so what chance do any infidels/non beliveers/sane people have of getting along with them?
why we are churning through lives and is the conflict really winnable after the Soviet-lesson?
Good point alas history has taught us ( our politicians that is )nothing
John, a very valid post. Well put.
The quote is often attributed to Voltaire, but I believe it was Evelyn Hall, in fact, paraphrasing Voltaire.
Lately, it seems the whole Wootton Basset thing has turned into a bit of grief tourism for some of the people there.
They have a right to march under British law, so there's not really a lot we can do about it.
The Police, rather than banning the march, should be looking to have enough of a presence on the ground to ensure the safety of the marchers.
If necessary, the cost of this should be passed on to the organisers, who in this case are Islam4UK.
I don't support any group that claims to be a platform for extremists, whatever their religion, but I do support their right to protest.
I'm ex-forces (or ex-paid oppressor as my brother's father in law insists on calling me) and, if I'm honest, I didn't really care what people back home in the UK said or thought when I was out in the Gulf in '91. Having said that, it was a lot less dangerous then!
It is indeed a provactive gesture but that is the nature of democracy we do allow peacful protest iirc. If you support free speeech you must support those you opposse /dislike the most.
We cant really argue with the fact that our state has killed more innocent Muslims than Muslims have killed innocent ones of us and yet we call them names for being aggressive and not liking peace.
they can't even agree which version of islam is best FFS
much like Catholics and Protestants then?
let them march, just remember that freedom of speech is not the freedom to insult
Islam... Schmizlam, what an absolute croc!
I think they're in danger of turning this into a religious debate - in reality thousands of civilians are sufffering as a result of this war. I'm not in agreement of us being their but I do strongly support our selfless armed forces and doff my cap to them all.
Whenever someone says civilian casualties I do not immediately think of a group of muslims, I think of people, who have families themselves and are expected home just like the rest of us are. It's my understanding that we invaded under the pretext of acting againsst terrorism, which happens to be carried out by a lot of extremists proclaiming themselves to be acting in the name of islam, and not with the express intention of wiping followers of islam off the planet. I think this groups intersts would be better served if they highlighted this, rather than turning it into a point of religion. I really do hate religious arguments......everyone thinks they're right...
What I find rather ironic about the planned protest is that it wasn't so far back that the Taliban had a lot of control in Afganistan. Y'know, the bunch that aren't keen on rights or education for women (which in itself would appear to be contrary to the Koran..) - tho' the situation is only slowly improving in this respect.
another "hot" topic, some things are set to remain the same in 2010 then
Sadly, I have yet to show my own support at WB, something I fully intend to rectify this month.
Now that we have passed the 100 milestone and are into the bleak months, it's time to stand up and be counted in a quiet and dignified manner.
However, I have no issue with an organised march drawing attention to the loss of life in country.
Hopefully the various services will be there with video cameras and taking notes. Followed by a spot of rendition to somewhere sunny for a while.
Sadly, I have yet to show my own support at WB, something I fully intend to rectify this month.
Now that we have passed the 100 milestone and are into the bleak months, it's time to stand up and be counted in a quiet and dignified manner.
Do you live near there?
Recently there was a funneral of a lad of 23, who was shot by a afganistani policeman,when we driveing home saw a few banners asying RIP,................, and we found the church,qite a few people there and a few police and military,sadly there was a muppet there with a camera,takeing pictures of us crying as the coffin passed,if he hadnt of run off would have had the long lens inserted in his small aperture.
IGNORANT SAD MUPPET HE WAS.
Sadly this is what we can expect at WB, sky and bbc,expecting a fight.
no they should not be allowed any were near, , there only doing it to cause trouble,and there will be trouble, lets not forget this is england,will not be stopped , because they will use the" your only saying no because were muslimn card".but also agree , empty streets, loads of police, brutal , opresive religeon imo
I can't begin to describe how distasteful I find the thought of this proposed event taking place. I will be leaving this thread well alone before I express a view I later regret.
I subscribe to the belief of freedom of speech and all that but this sickens me to the core.
Anyway, enough.
HATE what they're proposing to do, but support their right to do it.
If Muslim groups wish to make a point about the war they should march on the Houses of Parliament, that way they would win support.
A march on WB would be provocative, insensitive and designed wholly and only to cause offence and distress.
If the media hadn't decided that British casualties were the only story in Afghanistan, with no context about what is happening there, and concentrating on Wooton Basset, then these troublemakers (which is what they are) wouldn't have such an easy way to get the publicity they seek.
Let the march happen.
Line the streets with people of all colours, all creeds and all types. With their backs turned as the "march" goes past. Silent. Dignified.
{Deleted - Mod}
[i]Dales_rider - you are today's small-minded, ill educated bigot and I claim my £10.[/i]
Why you won the lottery, about all you'll win certainly not a degree in Islamic History.
As for knowing what I am from a truthful post well you were probably bullied at school and use the internet as a way of getting back at all the hundreds of people who picked on you.
aren't muslims great? a sensible bunch. I know. Lets drum up support for our religion by offending just about every person in the country. Then moan that we're being persecuted. Muppets
Why do you think these extremist are planning a march in Wooton Basset, to obviously cause a great deal of upset and gain publicity for there mad religion and belief system, they value there religion above their own lives of themselves and families. They do not want to follow or respect our way of life and take advange of our democracy. Demoractic right to demonstrate, what a load of bollocks they use that as an excuse. Ban the march on the grounds of inciting race hate and total direspect for our dead soldiers.
How would you feel if you lived in Wooten Basset and stood out in honour of the fallen only to see a bunch of crazy religious idiots doing ther utmost to provoke trouble and spit in your face. Why do they have to protest anyway, as I have said if they don't like our way of life then piss of and live somewhere else.
I think the best way is to ignore their protest (thats if its allowed to go ahead anyway as I note that in the news coverage that the group are acting on behalf of an extremist organisation).
Ban the march on the grounds of inciting race hate and total direspect for our dead soldiers.
respecting the dead killed by our troops is not disrespecting our dead is it?
If we can mourn "our" dead why can they not mourn "their" dead?
If you believe our system is the morally superior one then show it and respect their rights.
Nice comments by Binners - but remember geralising form this group of Muslims actions makes less sense than generalisation from Nick Griffin about what white people think about race.
If we can mourn "our" dead why can they not mourn "their" dead?
Their dead? I assumed they were British? Problem solved. Deport them.
respecting the dead killed by our troops is not disrespecting our dead is it?
If we can mourn "our" dead why can they not mourn "their" dead?
If you believe our system is the morally superior one then show it and respect their rights.
Nice comments by Binners - but remember geralising form this group of Muslims actions makes less sense than generalisation from Nick Griffin about what white people think about race.
Well f#*k me ...... a thought out comment, with a large dollop of common-sense
........how the £*ck did [b][i]that[/i][/b] manage to get on this thread 😯
5t - Ah well done Mr Griffin nice answer
Junkyard. A fair comment. But i think the silence of the muslim mainstream 'majority'says quite a bit.
When Nick Giffin and his thugs are making public appearances, rallys etc they tend to get a pretty hard time off the rest of the right-thinking population. Just look at the grilling he got on question time. MAinly from white members of the audience not wishing to be associated with his poisonous bile
When Muslim extremists come out with nonsense like this, then the mainstream muslim population seem remarkably reluctant to condemn them. Why? When they must know how this makes them look?
5t - Ah well done Mr Griffin nice answer
Funny. You brand them foreigners and somehow I'm a racist? Godwin's law knows no bounds.
Let the march happen.
Line the streets with people of all colours, all creeds and all types. With their backs turned as the "march" goes past. Silent. Dignified.
Much as I agree with Binners et al I would think that the good Capt's suggestion would be the most effective by a country mile.
I am a foreigner and say this: kick that intolerant scum out of the country FFS!
When Muslim extremists come out with nonsense like this, then the mainstream muslim population seem remarkably reluctant to condemn them.
One would assume that the moderate muslims know it's best to keep their heads down and mouths shut because they know they're between and rock and a hard place.
You brand them foreigners and somehow I'm a racist?
No, Junkyard did not brand them foreigners - you did that.
By saying [i]"why can they not mourn "their" dead?"[/i] he is not suggesting that those who want to have a march are Afghans, he appears to be suggesting that they are Muslims - which of course doesn't make them foreigners.
.
When Nick Giffin and his thugs are making public appearances, rallys etc they tend to get a pretty hard time off the rest of the right-thinking population.
Nick Griffin has said, quote :[i]"Brown, Cameron, Clegg: BLOODY MEN AND EVIL LEADERS These liars and con artists started and backed the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"[/i]
I don't ever recall the BNP being singled out for their opposition to what British troops are doing in Afghanistan 😕
A pal of mine is an ex Royal Marine, Falklands era. Believe me when he says there would be trouble. The people of Wooton Basset are simply showing respect for the British soldiers who have died fighting in the middle east.
Deluded, you beat me to it.
Part of me wonders what would happen if we were to do the equivalent in a Muslim country?
So what is actually the problem with this? Can any of the outraged Nick Griffins in this thread explain what is wrong with the protest?
Do any of you think there is a double standard in the way that British casualties are reported vs (many orders of magnitude greater) Iraqi ones?
All the people asking if you could have such protest in Muslim countries - surely we should be proud of the fact that we have freedom of speech/protest in this country. Rather ironic to slag off foreign countries for being intolerant at the same time as promoting intolerance in our own country.
well.... to point out the fairly bleeding obvious. But I think that Iran has just demonstrated how Islamic states deal with 'protest'
It generally involves firing live rounds into crowds. But then us westerners are the ones who butcher muslims. Aren't we?
The hypocrisy of these *ers is breathtaking. These *s are actually pressing for a state of affairs where this is how their 'difference of opinions' would be treated.
Do you get the feeling they haven't thought this through? Or perhaps, as with all extremists, they're just.... whats the word... thick!
Yes Iran treated a legitimate demonstration badly now is our opportunity to show them that we/our way of life is/ are better than than theirs by allowing those whose views we strongly oppose the right to protest even though it offends us. [b]If you support free speech it has to be for those that you oppose most not those you agree with. [/b]
Binners getting a bit ranty the alcohol kicking in ? time to smoke and chill 😉
We can hardly claim we are better than them and then prevent a legitimate act of democracy [protest]from occuring now could we ...that really would be being a bit thick.
Part of me wonders what would happen if we were to do the equivalent in a Muslim country?
Good point, it would be far safer to bomb them back to the stone age before we inflict our points of view upon them.
Hay-soos!
Bless them with holy pork.
😈
The hypocrisy of these *ers is breathtaking. These *s are actually pressing for a state of affairs where this is how their 'difference of opinions' would be treated.
Actually Islam4UK appear to believe that differences should be "debated". They are apparently concerned that the [i]The English Defence League[/i] are, quote : [i]"being poorly represented in the public arena by various media outlets; incorrect comparisons have been drawn between its members and those from among the British National Party, who are known for their particularly racist views...."[/i]
[url= http://www.islam4uk.com/current-affairs/uk-news/341-an-invitation-to-the-english-defence-league ]An Invitation to the English Defence League[/url]
...as with all extremists, they're just.... whats the word... thick!
So Muslim extremists are all just "thick" are they ? How come then, that the wealthiest nation on earth, with the "cleverest" minds and the most advanced weapons ever developed, are losing a war against thick, almost unarmed people, in one of poorest countries on earth ? And how come all those clever people were so stupid as to allow themselves to get sucked into an unwinnable war ?
Still, let's hope your right - because presumably, it will mean that they will be too thick to develop nuclear weapons.
Muslims? We're not fighting Muslims are we? I thought it was certain factions of the Aghanistan people. What religion they support is irrelevant (since Muslims exist on both sides of that fence), it's people (and these are not my own views), that are making Afghanistan a poorer place to live, who we are fighting.
Every effort should be made to stop people turning this into a holy war, it's not a holy war. It's a war against (and I've had to google to find out why our troops are in Afghanistan), terrorism apparently. And bad people support lots of different religions, some even don't support any religion (although obviously these are fewer and farer between.)
How come then, that the wealthiest nation on earth, with the "cleverest" minds and the most advanced weapons ever developed, are losing a war against thick, almost unarmed people, in one of poorest countries on earth?
I do not think they are losing the war but merely fighting too many fronts/unseen "nations"/"holy" people and are trying to fight a moral war.
And how come those clever people were so stupid as to allow themselves to get sucked into an unwinnable war ?
If they are stupid they would have nuked the place to kingdom come.
😈
perhaps that's the solution "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Dales_rider - MemberBollocks its a peaceful religion, even the Spanish inquisition were tame in comparision to the origions of Islam, and [b]for **** sake dont voice your opinion about it as they'll send a nutter to kill you[/b].
My bold. If that isn't a nice broad sweeping statement then I don't know what is. If you are a scholar of Islamic history, I'd hope you would share your knowledge rather than post something like that.
Were you bullied by a child who had 'different skin' to you at school?
Just love the Islam-haters on here.
'Yeah but, yeah but I bet Christians or other demonstraters wouldnt be treated the same if it was in a Muslim country'.
Just love the Islam-haters on here.
I dont just hate that one religion, we all know they are all bunkum.
There is only one true religion PASTAFARIANISM[b]AARRRGH[/b]
"when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell." [Quran 4:140]
"Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Quran 7:199]
"But they uttered blasphemy ... if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Quran 9:47]
"Allah is with those who restrain themselves . . . ." [Quran 16: 128]
"Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy." [Quran 20:130]
"And the servants of Allah ... are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'!" [Quran 25:63]
"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: 'To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant.'" [Quran 28: 55]
"Have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity)." [Quran 73:10]
"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah. It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned." [Quran 45:14]
"Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting." [Quran 50:39]
The Quran speaks of punishment in relation only to those who make war and mischief in opposition to Allah and Muhammad:
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter
—Quran 5:33
Blasphemy against Prophet Muhammad
The hadith and other writings suggest death is the proper punishment for someone who insults Muhammad.
Bollox as I said earlier
TooTall - MemberIf you are a scholar of Islamic history I'd hope you would share your knowledge rather than post something like that.
Actually, Dales_rider likes to share with us his impressive skills for copying and pasting directly from Wikipedia.
Well done fella - every dot and every comma 8)
And I like this btw : "[i]I dont just hate that one religion[/i] " .....it's nice to know that the hate you feel is all embracing.
I hate people when they mis quote, seems a favourite occupation on STW, just so as it fits what they want to say
PASTAFARIANISM is the only true religion, the ones who deny the true faith shall be destined to suffer the wrath of Captain Mosey
Obey the rules
The Eight "I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts" or forever burn in hot meatballs
Sufism must be one of the most beautiful forms of religion. It also happens to be a branch of Islam.
I'd take that over Catholics or Christians any day...but then Islams evil isnt it folks. You dont hear about the droves of Catholic Paedophiles priests now do you?
Edit- Interesting article in the Sunday Times mag today on the parallels to the Soviet invasion again.