What Scottish winter mountain gear to hopefully not use?

What boots have you got? (B1/B2/B3)? as that will determine what crampons will fit. Straight shaft walking axe but it will need some practice/ instruction. Have you got a decent outdoor shop near you so you can get all this sorted properly and not via the internet?

Blizzard bag, I suppose.

I don't think you should view crampons and axe as things you hopefully won't use. Means you'll be tempted to not practise/familiarise yourself with their use.

Boots are fairly flexible so B1.  Saying I hopefully won’t use them as unless the path is a frozen stream I don’t intend to get up onto the snow.

Im in the West Midlands , so no, no outdoor shops near apart from the chains. Happy to buy in Scotland before use.

My advice is to be really clear about what you want to do and stick to it. You say maybe an ice axe but later you say you'll turn back at the snowline. If you haven't used an axe before, don’t buy one for a trip, all it will do is give a false sense of security and potentially lead you into riskier situations. If you want to do stuff that requires an axe then you should take the time to learn how to use it (and crampons, because the two go together) properly. That doesn't need to be a formal course and doesn’t need a lot of time but it's not just a case of buying them and going.

Also,'snowline' doesn’t really have much meaning in Scotland. Right now, the snowline is sea level but lots of it is soft and there are plenty of hills you could walk up in the snow without specialised equipment. The thing you need to be wary of is hard snow that can cause a slip not snow in general.

If you just want something to make icy paths easier then microspikes plus poles is a good combo.

When and where? 

A winter skills course would be greatly useful especially if you're heading into the Scottish hills alone. Great having kit, but if you're not sure how to deploy them or reorientate yourself you could find yourself in a bit of bother.

All fair comments, and agree a winter skills course would be great.

@scotroutes Kinlochewe in a couple of weeks, (I will be in contact with the Scottish contingent :salute:)

The way things are looking right now, the only ice will be in your GnT.

Heh, yeah think I’ll need an umbrella, not poles/axe

and agree a winter skills course would be great.

Winter skills courses are great if you want to go place where crampons and axe are necessary. If you just want to bimble around and are (genuinely) prepared to turn back then there's no need. Assuming youve got the other skills, mainly navigation.

Crampons and an axe allows you to climb higher - but you need the skills to use them.  I have done loads of winter summits without either - its just about risk assessment.  Snow soft and take a boot well?  Carry on going up.  Hit hardpacked ice - stop going up.  You also need to check slope stability ie will the top layer slide off.

If you get an axe and crampons then first time out with them find a slope that is a safe fall and practise using them

If you want an axe I have a spare very old school walking axe you can have ( ie not a climbing axe but one that you can use for fall arrest) maybe even a spare set of crampons depending on boot size ( Julies old kit)

Please don't buy the gear without getting some good instruction and practice in using it. My first and hopefully only ice axe self arrest was feet first on my stomach, and that was terrifying. My mate has fallen head first on his back and self arrested ... Sounds like your going to stick to lower/easier ground do that with an experienced buddy and practice falling it's fun...sort of.

As others are saying, knowledge and practice are as important, if not more, than the kit.

Secondly, can you borrow kit? Or buy cheaply second hand - all our axes are second hand, bought locally, as are my crampons (now a decade old)...

More generally on kit for winter walks, and I know you know this in your job, but....:

- someone who knows where you are and when you should be back. And has an idea of late back procedure.
- map and compass in addition to any electronic nav. Walkhighlands app is superb - and free to free subscribers, for navigation and printing off routes.
- headtorch and batteries
- waterproof bag liner - bin bags are fine.
- bivvy bag and hand warmer of some kind for heat.
- good baselayers - anything you have wicking and warm. I tend to carry a spare top half baselayer, useful as another layer or on occasion if you get soaked.
- a few thin fleeces are often better than big puffy layers IME, particularly when damp.
- a few pairs of gloves and a hat that actually comes down over ears and nape of neck, and a couple of buffs.
- goggles - are fabby on really windy, icy, horrid days to allow you to still see.
- good waterproofs and boots.
- more food than you think needed. And some spare food.
- sunscreen, for that bluebird, snowy, damn I am burnt to a crisp day which happens once a winter...
- boots, waterproof jacket and trousers etc. I find a windproof is superb - keeps wind off but not as sweaty as my waterproofs.

Meall a' Ghiubhais and Beinn a'Chearcaill are two good lower hills near Kinlochewe. Great views from both.

I carry enough kit so I believe I would survive a night out on the hills - so extra warm stuff and a bivvy bag of some sort

Ever dug a snow hole?  I did once for practice and its amazing how much energy it takes - so if you are in trouble stop and dig the snow hole before you are exhausted

But the key thing is - know your limits and be prepared to abandon your route and head down.  I think I have actually made the summit on half my winter walks

If you're passing this way then I can lend you an ice axe - maybe even find some neve to practice on. 

If you are strict enough with yourself then some micro-spikes might be sufficient - especially as you're not sure if your boots really are B1 rated. 

After that it's more survival/comfort you want to think about, so Matt's list should be used as a base (though I generally go with a bit less).

Thanks all, off out for day now so won’t be able to reply further

I was taught that the ice axe comes before crampons, the former provides stability on looser snow and saves you when you fall whereas the latter allows you to get into serious trouble when it's icier and if you slip there's no stopping you. Though it's not often I'd take just one and not the other.

Probably better to just avoid the snow if it's a one-off.

I was taught that as well thecaptain

Boots are fairly flexible so B1

Might be B0 then so not for crampon use?. There might be some B0 options but I'm not sure what they are.

Mrs TJs crampons were the type with a flexible plate rather than a hinge - they worked fine for walking with flexible boots but useless for toe pointing up steep slopes

Kendal mint cake.

so if you are in trouble stop and dig the snow hole before you are exhausted

Sorry TJ but I don't think this is great advice or it's only good advice with a bunch of caveats.

The first one is that it's almost always better to keep moving if you can. Stopping for the night is always going to be grim and only worth considering if you are physically unable to move or if you are so lost/out of your depth that further movement could be dangerous. Having made that decision, the chances of you being near an appropriate site for a snow hole are pretty slim, especially in today's leaner winters. Also, digging a functioning snowhole with an axe is often really difficult.

So by all means try digging a snowhole if you happen to be immobile near an appropriate site but otherwise, just keep moving.

I'd second some ice spikes for your boots - there was a thread on here for running ones that's worth a search for. Trekking poles would also be useful.

As others have said an axe and crampons are not much use if you don't know how to use them. A willingness to turn back is the most important thing you could pack.

spin - I took that as a lesson from years ago where a group got lost on the hills in winter - tried to walk out until exhausted and then did not have enough energy left to dig snow holes and folk died.  If they had stopped earlier they could have dug into the snow and survived

for sure its better to keep going if you have the chance to make it out but if you keep on going until exhausted then you do not have the energy left to dig a snow hole

the time I did one for practice was at the end of a day out and it took the last vestiges of my strength to do it.  Its suprised me how much energy it took to dig it

Again a balanced decision depending on circumstances / conditions / distance from road / knowing where you are etc

I know this is about kit but if you're out and it's likely to snow I'd mak sure your nav is up to speed. There's a big difference between nav on a nice day and nav when everything is white and telling up and down is hard.

I took that as a lesson from years ago where a group got lost on the hills in winter – tried to walk out until exhausted and then did not have enough energy left to dig snow holes and folk died.  If they had stopped earlier they could have dug into the snow and survived

Lots of maybes there. An actual snow hole is difficult and time consuming to build and takes a lot of time even if you have an appropriate site. They're usually a non starter from an emergency shelter standpoint.

For me, a snowhole as an emergency shelter is a bit Bear Grylls. Worth bearing in mind but lots of other things to try first and unlikely to be a practical option in reality.

IIRC that was the FAI conclusion.  Pre internet / gps / mobile phone days so maybe that changes the balance.?  I'll see if I can find the incident

I can think of other incidents where folk were saved by snowholes

Might be B0 then so not for crampon use?. There might be some B0 options but I’m not sure what they are.

You can get strap on crampons / micro-spikes for trainers / flip flops.

You'll be fine as long as you don't want to front point, which covers most gentle ground / paths. Very rare you need to front point outside of winter climbing. If your path has a steep iced step section and you've never front pointed before, best turn back or find a way round rather than find out the hard way your crampons can't cope and break an ankle.

I can think of other incidents where folk were saved by snowholes

In the UK? That they'd built themselves in an emergency scenario, without a shovel? I'd be interested to hear about them because I can't think of any and all the advice I've seen is to try if you like but don't expect it to keep you warm by anything other than exertion.

I'm not saying it's never going to be a thing but the idea of stopping for the night and digging a snow hole is really unrealistic. So unrealistic that its not something to be advising people to do.

In Scotland yes. 

there was a chap overnighted in one - he got lost or something, built a snowhole, was reported missing, MR did not find him that night.  He walked out the following day unharmed

A properly built snowhole will allow you to be out of the wind and at a higher temp than being in a bivvy on the surface

We need folk like @mattoutandabout or @scotroutes who know more about this stuff  I*wonder if the paradigm has altered since mobile phones and GPS

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12517883.lost-hunter-survived-30c-winds-by-digging-snow-hole/

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-press-and-journal-inverness-highlands-and-islands/20180213/282879436217396

When conditions are "just so" I've carried a shovel. After a bit of practice with the shovel, the thought of trying to dig a snow hole with an ice axe would have me soldiering on. Might work in a group environment I guess. 

I'd rather be in a bothy bag with a few air activated heat pad/hand warmers than trying to dig a snowhole. Lightweight to carry.

I'd rather be in the local curry house having known my limits!

https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/products/bothy-bags/

A properly built snowhole will allow you to be out of the wind and at a higher temp than being in a bivvy on the surface

Yes, but the chances of you making such a thing in an emergency scenario are really, really small.

You talk about it being something that was advised but it never really has been other than in some very specific circumstances. If anything has changed its not mobiles etc, it's less snowy winters that make it even less realistic.

Don't assume that you don't need a walking axe if you are not going high - it's more a question of how steep a snow-covered slope is. My biggest fall was descending Ben More and was caused by the soft but deep melting snow lower down which didn't support my weight. Any fall on a snowy-slope can lead to you traveling a considerable distance. I was able to arrest my fall with my axe relatively quickly, but still ended up with broken ribs after bouncing off some rocks.

The other thing they don't tell you in the books is that when your jacket fills up with snow as you slide it gets very cold!

+1 on a snowhole being a distraction from crawling your damn own way off the cold heights and off to warmth somewhere.

Curry house sounds good (-:

@houns, happy to lend a walking axe or two, I'm just down the road from you, I think, in Kingswinford. Have also got b1 walking crampons (if your boots have got the heel cup) and a 2 or 4 person bothy bag you can borrow too. Drop me a DM if you want. 

I took that as a lesson from years ago where a group got lost on the hills in winter – tried to walk out until exhausted and then did not have enough energy left to dig snow holes and folk died.  If they had stopped earlier they could have dug into the snow and survived

I vaguely recall reading about an incident where a climber broke both his legs but crawled down a glacier for several days and survived, then became a best-selling author. I took that as a lesson that if I fall off a small ice cliff and shatter my lower limbs, the best course of action is to drag myself slowly to safety...

You can only learn so much from past incidents. In reality the only hard and fast rule is to make decisions that give you the best chance of getting out in one piece. Sometimes that might mean digging in. Sometimes walking out. It depends on your individual abilities and the situation your find yourself in. If that situation is in a curry house with a pile of popadoms and impending main course, so much the better.

Whether you know how to use it or not*, having an axe is useful just to prevent a lecture from some mountain busybody who thinks it's their job to police the mountain 😉

*Do learn how to use it though.

In my experience (only a few times ) digging snowcave (basically igloo in snow) will get you wet, no matter if wearing Gore-Tex or not. Simple snowhole (burrow into a snowbank) is easier  but not nearly as warm as proper cave.

So should the OP be carrying a shovel with him?

Whether you know how to use it or not*, having an axe is useful just to prevent a lecture from some mountain busybody who thinks it’s their job to police the mountain

A fair point. I needed it a couple of years ago as we set of up the Aonach Eagach when a fellow hillwalker tried to put he fear of god into one of my (already nervous) lads. Closest I have ever come to telling someone to f*ck off on the hill...

So should the OP be carrying a shovel with him?

Nah.

As a couple of other folk have mentioned, it's worth considering the Yaktraks/micro spike type of walking assist.  They're a really useful addition to a winter walking bag, effective in any situation that the inexperienced, relatively careful and sensible walker is likely to encounter in your lighter boots.  I would be carrying a pair of these far more often in the winter in the Highlands than I do my full crampons.  The axe is always there for the rare occasions that I want it for extra safety but the wee spikes are very good indeed on any walk up an icy path, on part thawed and re-frozen snow and might get used again anytime local conditions are a bit iffy and you need to get to the shops...

If you find yourself looking up at the steep approach to a peak where you might need full crampons in the Highland winter, you should be asking yourself if you have the skills and experience to be up there at all.  Yes, they make being up there and still on your feet a lot safer if you know what you're doing.  However, in a fall it's the opposite, a pair of crampons are quite likely to make the situation very much worse, rather than better.   So, I would be advocating a proper lesson in their use, rather than going for a wee slide on a roadside snow patch and then setting off up a big hill.

You can only learn so much from past incidents. In reality the only hard and fast rule is to make decisions that give you the best chance of getting out in one piece. Sometimes that might mean digging in. Sometimes walking out. It depends on your individual abilities and the situation your find yourself in.

<br />this of course is the best advice

My point simply was if it looks like you are going to overnight - and god forbid you do - then spending the last bits of your energy might be better on digging in than trying to get further and ending up spending the night on the sur5face.

I just want to say these sort of discussions are good.;  the more knowledge and info we have the better decisions we will make.

So even tho most seem not to agree with me its given me food for thought.  ta

I overnighted in a snow hole once with a school friend, it was a planned trip of course (though the person whose idea it was managed to find an excuse not to come!), we had to be just off the lee side of the summit as it was the only place the snow was deep enough, it took all afternoon to dig and we had a pretty miserable night, woke with a bit of a headache to find the entrance completely sealed up (spindrift). Got up, had some tepid trangia porridge the next morning and marched down the hill pretty quick to find somewhere a bit drier and warmer!

I don't think the OP needs to be concerning themselves with snow holes.

So even tho most seem not to agree with me

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, there are specific situations when digging a snow hole might be a good choice. It's just not something to give as general advice.

If you’re just going for a bimble then all you need is a paper map for backup, spare set of warm layers (hat, gloves, fleece), spare food and a head torch.

The more (unnecessary kit) you take the slower you’ll be, and can often be more a hindrance than a help.

-About £45

About £12

Handy, cheap, shows your position pretty much instantly.

matt_outandaboutFull Member<br />So should the OP be carrying a shovel with him?<br />Nah.

A JCB?

@houns, https://lockwoods.com/ are not far from you and are a "proper outdoor shop", could be worth a visit if you want to buy kit in person.

A JCB?

Only if the curry house from the night before backfires and there is need to bury some toxic waste well.

What happens if you get it wrong with an ice axe...

(43:16 still makes me wince).

Attempting to dig a snow hole without the knowledge and means to dig one is pretty pointless - you could expend a lot of energy in a fairly fruitless exercise which could have been better used to get down off the hill.

GPS and the like makes navigation far easier - I carry my phone with OS Maps installed, a separate handheld GPS with the route loaded and finally a paper map + compass. Most incidents are due to folks getting lost or over-estimating their capabilities - the estimated route times on Walk Highlands for example are extremely pessimistic. If you don’t know an area, following a proven route where you can follow a track, let people know where you’re going/ timing etc. is far better than hiking off into unfamiliar territory with only a vague idea of where you are going.

Microspikes etc are great - they allow you to traverse terrain safely sometimes impossible in regular footwear. The lack of front points make them unsuitable for steeper, more technical terrain, but less likely to trip yourself up.  A lightweight boot with spikes is way better than a heavier boot without crampons IMO. Poorly fitting crampons can be a liability - they can shake loose/trip you up.

Something briefly touched on it getting your clothing right - wearing too much, sweating-through your layers can be pretty dangerous when it’s cold and windy, accelerating the chances of hypothermia. Stopping to remove layers can seem counterproductive, as is checking to make sure you’re not getting too sweaty. Stripping off to change your baselayer top may seem nuts, but can be a big psychological boost. Puffy jackets are great when stopped or for layering up for a descent, but often less suited to Scottish winter conditions.

Finally, getting to know what the expected weather conditions are going to be like - a benign day at the bottom can be very different from the top with high winds and limited visibility. Turning around to retrace a familiar, outbound round is often safer than pressing on into the unknown.

I wouldn’t necessarily limit yourself to staying below the snow line if following a known route - there’s plenty of relatively safe routes when conditions are good. Problems often occur when people attempt routes when pressed for time and facing inclement weather.

What happens if you get it wrong with an ice axe…

I remember watching that as a kid. There's a written account of it in a book called 'The Black Cloud' by IDS Thompson who also wrote the Jock Nimlin biography 'May the Fire Always be Lit.'

I did once smash a finger on a rock while practicing an ice axe descent 😀 It wasn't bad but blood leaves a massive trail on snow...

I've dug a lot of snowholes, mostly for training purposes. This has mostly been in Alpine conditions, with a group to work on it and everyone has shovels. Even so, it takes a long time (like, an hour or more) to produce a decent 2-person shelter. Solo, in Scottish conditions, with an ice axe? Good luck.

You can pass an acceptable night in one if it's well built and you have a decent mat, sleeping bag and bivvy bag. Otherwise, it's going to be a very unpleasant experience.

In the Alps, everyone does generally have a shovel as you're carrying it as part of your avalanche safety kit when ski-touring / splitboarding or doing some more "engaged" snowshoeing. In Scottish conditions, not so much...

However, if you can't walk out because you're injured, dealing with another casualty or hopelessly lost then yes, definitely, have a crack at it. Just getting yourself out of the wind will make a big difference in a life or death situation.

Years ago I dislocated and broke my shoulder hitting a tree in the Canadian Rockies, in January, at dusk at -20C.  I was in a group of 5 all ski touring with all the gear. We had an Inreach and so pretty quickly had contact with MR. I was pretty out of it with pain and all I wanted to do was curl up into a ball however MR told the group that every m closer I got to the road was a m less they had to come in. So I shuffled slowly in the dark for hours chivvied on by my friends until we met up with MR who gave me drugs and put me in a sled.

Every situation is different but "dig a snow cave and we'll come find you in the morning" wasn't the outcome even with a big group and a 2m snowpack...

Oh and +1 on guidebooks being occasionally optimistic.   One such book goes by the Calgary description "The book of lies" based on both descriptions and time estimates.

There's some shocking advice being given on here. I really can't believe TJ is trying to debate Winter safety with Spin. TJ, do you know how much of his time this dude spends out in the winter mountains?

The idea that the standard advice should be that a cold exhausted group should stop and then stand around freezing their tits off whilst one person at a time digs a snowhole is ludicrous.

I've slept in a snowhole. I've built a few completely weathertight igloos, I've dug quite a few snowholes and the idea that I might choose them and anything but last resort is madness.

Snow soft and take a boot well? Carry on going up. Hit hardpacked ice – stop going up.

And this....🥵🤔👿
What happens if you are coming down a different way
What if you get lost?
What happens when the temperature adiabatic lapse rates as you ascend and gradually turns soft into hard pack? After robotically plodding up the hill for thirty minutes you realise that kicking steps is no longer an option. Turn around for a look and find yourself looking down at a smooth, fast, slippery expanse of snow that might take a dent if you really focussed half your bodyweight on kicking it, but if you fell it would remain completely flat and unyielding as you hurtled down
What if it just cools down during the day and the exact same " soft and takes a boot well" snow is now "hardpacked ice"?

Don't get me wrong, we've all bimbled up a snowy hill in winter without consequence at one time or another, but to give this option as solicited advice is truly misguided

There’s some shocking advice being given on here. I really can’t believe TJ is trying to debate Winter safety with Spin. TJ, do you know how much of his time this dude spends out in the winter mountains?

Interesting discussion I thought and I did not argue with him at all.  I accepted his points and learnt more

Jeepers dude.  Why so angry?  We can all learn from this. including me.  My point was a simple one based on advice I have been given in the past and based on reports from FAI.  what you claim I said is not what I did

Its all about sharing experience and learning

Soz, didn't mean to be.

It's a long story.

I actually came in to delete my post, but was too slow.
I'm getting better, but every now and then one slips out.

Apology reiterated.

NO worries dude  crap advice needs to be called out.  Seems like what I was told decades ago is not what is taught now

Back to the idea of things to bring and hopefully not use, I was considering chucking one of those SOL Escape Bivvy bags in my camelbak on the sub-zero night rides 'just in case'.   If it doubled up as a v.lightweight bivvy for single night bikepacking under a hedge so much the better.

Any real world experience?

e.g.  https://valleyandpeak.co.uk/products/sol-escape-bivvy

So for my bimble around the hills I will need the following:

B1/2/3 boots
Crampons
Straight shaft walking axe
Blizzard bag
Winter skills course
Umbrella
Someone who knows where you are and when you should be back. And has an idea of late back procedure.

Map and compass in addition to any electronic nav.
Walkhighlands app.

Headtorch and batteries.

Waterproof bag liner.
Bivvy bag and hand warmer of some kind for heat.

Good baselayers.

A few thin fleeces.
A few pairs of gloves and a hat that actually comes down over ears and nape of neck, and a couple of buffs.

Goggles.

Good waterproofs and boots.

More food than i think needed. And some spare food.

Sunscreen.

Boots, waterproof jacket and trousers etc.
Kendal mint cake
Ice spikes
Trekking poles
Shovel
Rights to a book deal
Flares (of the trouser and distress signal variety)
A JCB
Inreach/spot tracker
Kristin Harila
Nirmal Purja
A team of Sherpas
Oxygen and masks
Address of nearest curry house

Right, have I missed owt?

A Unimog to carry everything in

Ah sod it, cheaper to stay in the pub.

No flask and hot drink? That's just reckless behaviour

Go pro camera,
A drone for filming,
Lawyer for the bòok/film rights

My main must haves for Scotland (apart from what you'd normally take hill walking in England in winter) is gaiters for the wet ground are more or less essential and spare dry, warm gloves and hat in case you drop one, get soaked or blown away.
Extra layer and probably a bothy bag/shelter are more or less standard winter kit wherever you go.
I would encourage you to think about getting some 10 point crampons and a lightweight axe and to venture onto some snow that is not steep purely for a bit of adventure, it's good to try it and it expands the range of places you consider going and exploring. Scottish mountains are great so go prepared but do go.
As for a shovel, only take one if you're planning to do a large poo. Generally I only carry one ski touring when there is a very small chance of needing to dig someone out of an avalanche.

Any real world experience?

I've never used one of those sol bags but it isn't much lighter than an alpkit bivi bag, which are also cheaper and probably better for actual bivi duties.

Neither would be very easy to get a casualty in though I reckon, I dunno, could be wrong. I guess you could slit it open with the Gerber multi tool that is a must carry in off tarmac situations 🤓

Houns-

I'm out in the hills a couple of days a week as part of my job. (Lucky me!)

I do plenty of summits in winter but don't usually carry an axe or crampons. I tend to hit lower, easier hikes & am happy to turn back.

I carry:

OS Map. GPS. Compass. Knife or Leatherman . 1st Aid Kit. Orange Survival Bag. Emergency rations that don't freeze. Waterproof smartphone that lasts a week.

Ex Army Goretex Jacket & Trousers. Extra fleece. Gloves x2 . Goggles.

I wear:

Altberg Army Boots

Gaiters

Merino Socks

Quick drying trousers

Base layer\thin fleece

Buffalo Jacket or Shirt

All my gear is cheap except the Buffalo stuff but you can get ex-army "softies" that do the same job for a fraction of the price.

@chaos - I've used a SOL Escape for an Autumn "bivvy". In fact I only stopped for a few hours in the middle of doing the Cairngorms Loop. With a mat below it, I just crawled in wearing my riding gear and insulated jacket. I was soon asleep and was only woken by a bright moon rising above the trees. Given that the air temperature was hovering around 5C, I think it did pretty well. It does accompany me on some "wilder" day expeditions too. In fact I already have a couple in mind for this year where it'll be in my kilt. 

In fact I already have a couple in mind for this year where it’ll be in my kilt

You wear a kilt? Hardcore! 👍

Now, that's either AI Autocorrect or something subconscious 😂

Cheers for replies on Sol Escape bivvy.  I do have one of the Naturehike CloudUps for actual camping/bikepacking so this really would be just emergency use and as light as poss to throw in with the 1st aid basics.

not that we get things too extreme down here on the south coast but even so with an extended mechanical / unfortunate tumble in high wind chill frosty evenings, people can get very cold very rapidly and there's not always a handy pub 5 mins walk away.