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@the generalist my pop top is a double a very comfy double slept up there many a time!
The ideal seems a van plus camper. Two vans, um.
Or a larger van with a dedicated bike storage /garage.
I've not got a problem leaving the bikes on the rack outside when I'm sleeping in the van. Less confident when leaving the van to go shopping or traipse around town. Bikes are obviously locked up several times over.
ashat has a nice solution, but obviously eats into the interior space.
We've owned out T5 conversion for over 6 years now. Reckon if we were to put it up for sale tomorrow I could ask somewhere in the region of £27k it meaning we'd have lost around 3k on it in 6 years. Admittedly the market is mental at the minute but even before covid, I reckon it was still worth £24k pretty comfortably.
Some people get them, some don't. We wouldn't be without ours but conscious of kids growing at an alarming rate and my wife's MS means its got a finite lifespan with us now.
my pop top is a double a very comfy double slept up there many a time!
Who slept up there with you?
How wide is it?
I’ve slept in my pop top with the wife. But we’re both pretty small, I’m 5 foot 7 and 68kgs she’s about 5 foot 5 and less than 60kgs.
Does get chilly up there in the winter though.
Hiya,
If I may add. My brother in law had a California T5, it was a little unreliable and needed a lot of dealer interaction. He isn't that practical, so it was probably of his own doing. I was looking at a campervan at the time and was concerned after his experiences plus a few other mates, and the cost put me off. I spent a lot of time on forums and looking at the issues. In the end I couldn't justify the cost to myself, so I got a Renault Traffic Sussex campervan conversion. That was in 2015 and so far touch wood only one MAF sensor issue and a badly wired split charge system that I figured out. Now the van has done 45K miles it may not be worth as much as a T6 California, but I have no intention of selling it and planning to convert to EV at some time.
Only problem so far with Renaults is the gear linkage is terrible but if you grease it regularly it isn't a problem, oh and change the gearbox oil every two years. PS I paid 36K for my van brand new.
JeZ
I’ve slept in my pop top with the wife. But we’re both pretty small, I’m 5 foot 7 and 68kgs she’s about 5 foot 5 and less than 60kgs.
Does get chilly up there in the winter though.
Same here. Thermal wrap sorts it out - proper cosy.
I have a 2013 Beach (ex-demo six months / 60 miles on the clock) bought as a replacement for an estate car when prices (it now seems) were reasonable. Intention back then was for lots of weekend camping and the occasional longer trip and we did pretty well with two little kids. It's tailed off a lot since we had #3 but still do the occasional weekend and have an awning. Though all week-long UK holidays are self catering now but we have room to take all the toys!
BUT on top of the occasional camping trip, as a day trip van, load lugger, people carrier (sixth seat), bike carrier, sit and work whilst kids are doing sports it is and remains brilliant. I've deliberately kept the mileage low by using my Mrs car for general duties so I'm confident the TCO will have been peanuts, but I have no plans to sell even though I expect it'll start costing me a bit more in terms of repairs.
Current economics look a bit scary though.
Owner of a homebrew Mercedes Vito camper here. Its 11 yrs old. Low mileage (6500mls per annum average) and mint. It owes me less than i could sell it as a base van but i have a full camper conversion in it.
Anyhow, the Calafornia. It stacks up for a lot. The depreciation is probably the same or even less per annum than, say a BMW 3 series, Volvo whatever or a Merc C class estate which i suspect is the kind of car a family with upto 80k to budget on a camper would be looking at minimum. The £80k is irrelivant for most as they budget on a monthly basis. I know people paying upwards of £400 per month for a car they hand back after 3 yrs. Over 5 yrs thats £24,000. So if a 5yr old Calafornia is worth £56,000 its a similar deal.
They are lifestyle vehicles for lots. I daresay anyone with a real lifestyle need wouldnt look at such a polished finish with such a huge budget. Anyone who really has a use for a camper like these gives it plenty of work, risks marking the interior all the time and probably hasnt got much time for the layout available.
Lets face it. Most of these vehicles are used by the wife as the second car. The family as a big estate car and at the weekend (If they are lucky) to take the dog for a longer walk or the bikes on the back. There are a few where we live. Parked up on driveways looking extra polished. Never getting out (Pre covid) and if they do, its a trip to the shops to make sure it starts.
I am into climbing and used to be into biking. I must admit the camper vans i witnessed being used as lifestyle/activity vehicles were never the posh stuff like a VW calafornia.
Cali T5.1 Owner (8yrs and 60K miles to date)
Yes its gone wrong a few times both in and out of warranty (EGR/Roof corrosion/AC pump...)
But the smiles its allowed us as a family (as previous posts) using it as daily driver,
day van, weekend camper and even the European tours outweigh the higher running costs.
Its like the faithful Pet of the family so we glaze over its faults.
We luckily bought ours before it got trendy and expensive, I hope to keep her another year
and based on the current market value roughly estimate 20% depreciation. But I won't buy
another new or used as they are just now too pricey.
My money will be going toward a Fiat Ducato Panel van conversion for more space and better
value for money.
Anyhow, the Calafornia. It stacks up for a lot. The depreciation is probably the same or even less per annum
Pretty sure I read they have the lowest depreciation of any UK vehicle. I'm with you mudder that mine is getting on a bit but can't justify the outlay on a replacement. Maybe I'll just keep it going - I kind of like it's analogue nature but I could use some DAB...
Prices are going mental at the moment for VW vans. I bought a 3 year old T5.1 panel van 3 years ago for work. I haven’t converted it to a camper, or spent anything on it other than routine servicing and maintenance. Last week, the VW dealer I bought it from phoned me and offered £750 more than I paid for it. I’m assuming that’s because there’s an increase in demand from people wanting to convert them.
I have a LWB hiace. Insulated the back, double air bed fits.
Multiple bikes fit
Or multiple other items.
Use it daily.
Cost me £2.5k.
Will outlast any transporter 🙂
Jake, why the last comment?
Seriously don’t get why people have to put in sly digs against other people. This forum is getting ridiculous.
I’m probably feeling a bit precious as on another thread I’ve just been called parasitic, the worst of all evils and should go and get a real job.
Hi w00dster,
No sly dig intended, the transporters aren't reliable vehicles and are very expensive in the first place. This is verified by multiple posters in this thread discussing the maintenance costs.
They are a fashion item, and demand a premium due to this. Sure when they work they drive nice, they are £50k+ they should do!
The thread is based around the 'economics' of a VW, highlighting other options with a better reliability record are available seemed relevant to the main theme of the thread.
Sorry to have caused offence 🙂
This is verified by multiple posters in this thread discussing the maintenance costs.
lolz at this. Just lolz
No sly dig intended, the transporters aren’t reliable vehicles and are very expensive in the first place. This is verified by multiple posters in this thread discussing the maintenance costs.
They are a fashion item, and demand a premium due to this. Sure when they work they drive nice, they are £50k+ they should do!
The thread is based around the ‘economics’ of a VW, highlighting other options with a better reliability record are available seemed relevant to the main theme of the thread.
i'll bet the depreciation on hiace costs more than the maintenance on a VW....
OK, as a T5 owner of 16 years.... Yes the maintenance costs are bloody huge. I've had a fair few £1k+ bills on mine.
Not impressed by them TBH.
OK, as a T5 owner of 16 years…. Yes the maintenance costs are bloody huge. I’ve had a fair few £1k+ bills on mine.
Not impressed by them TBH.
6 years of ownership, but yes, agreed.
the transporters aren’t reliable vehicles
Its odd because someone needs to tell that to my van which apart from a driveshaft (expected given the abuse mine take) has been absolutely faultless in over 6 years of ownership.
i’ll bet the depreciation on hiace costs more than the maintenance on a VW….
Seeing as the hiace only cost £2.5k probably not.
California (Beach) 5.1 owner for just over 8 years now. Not found the maintenance costs to be particularly high. Biggest bill I had to pay was for cambelt & waterpump. Roof repair (known issue for couple of years) and sliding door locking module replaced, both under warranty. The only 2 non service/consumables Ive had to pay for were replacement parking sensor and offside mirror glass (faulty heating element). I dont do huge mileage and very few short trips, maybe that helps reliability & costs.
The general size and layout works for me and what I do with the vehicle. Mostly day trips and couple of holidays per year (normal pre covid times as a base for cycling and kayaking. If It was stolen and I had to replace it tomorrow I would probably get another Beach or Coast California. Wish there was more mainstream competition from other manufactures to keep VW on there toes.
Aha. I know how to unite T5:owners......
THOSE ****IN REAR SLIDING WINDOWS. GODAWFUL THINGS. Cannot believe how bad they are. I've recently had to apply a fat splodge of bathroom silicone all round mine to stop them leaking. ( Which of course means they don't open) They are sooooo shit.
Let me just say that the current economics are bonkers. I've seen a couple newer equivalents of my Cali, both 2nd hand and they want £67k respectively.
We own a '15 California. We purchased outright in Jan '16. It was brand new with 50 delivery miles on it. It was the spec, colour, etc we wanted and we secured a good price including extras direct from VW. We also got a great PX price for our car (that was on it's way to costing us some money).
Based on what we paid (excluding the PX) I think we could sell for not a lot less today.
As for reliability and maintenance it's been great so far. I've had a couple of things done on warranty in the first couple of years, trim mainly, there's the annual mileage driven inspection and oil change and like someone else has said, the cambelt and water pump. All of which have been done by VW.
The Cali is our daily driver, although prior to Covid my wife and I worked from home or took the bus to the office. So it's mainly used at the weekends. When we bought we were a family of 3. By the end of the first year having done numerous weekends away and a Spanish/French roadtrip we were then a family of 4.
We continued to take smaller UK holidays and longer (4 weeks) European summer breaks until last year....obviously. Although we still managed the NC500 in the summer. I just find it's an amazing family vehicle, as both a daily driver and for family holidays. It's all very well designed internally as VW have been refining the trim and design for some years now.
Yes, it does have limitations. We feel the vans nemesis is strong winds. We've been caught as a family in some coastal storms (Cornwall and West coast of Scotland) and with the roof up to accommodate all of us sleeping (2 up 2 down) it acts like a sail and it's an unnerving night. Yes, it can feel cramped (again, bad weather with two young kids (7 and 4)). Yes, you do have to be clever with the packing (we try and travel light so no awning, just the van).
Generally though I'm more than happy. It suits our needs and more importantly the kids love it and love the opportunities for holidays it brings. I think now the only time we'll get rid of it is when an E variant is available. If they're affordable obviously.
broadspeed seem to have the beach/coast range (which appear to do most of what you'd want) for £50-53k (new) - I'm not sure why they are more than this 2nd hand on autotrader - do they get loaded with options?
I told my mechanic that I was thinking of getting a camper. He said great,just don’t get a transporter as it will break and when it does it will cost a fortune.
I’m not sure why they are more than this 2nd hand on autotrader
Waiting lists most likely
I bought a t5.1 camper 18 months ago, 8 years old at the time. I was curious about the doom laden reliability stories and found this https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/volkswagen/transporter/2010-review/
2nd most reliable van according to their info. I've also heard the horror stories about Transits, so not a lot in it in reality - they all appear to be as bad as each other.
The main advantage of VW to me was the number of people, and the amount of kit available, to convert one. Lots of choice.
However, mine is not a California as I prefer a more functional camping interior. My favourite 'essential' option is a diesel heater.
Buy my van!
All problems resolved, hence the price... 😁
I know people paying upwards of £400 per month for a car they hand back after 3 yrs. Over 5 yrs thats £24,000. So if a 5yr old Calafornia is worth £56,000 its a similar deal.
Not really. The cost of the California is £24k depreciation plus the loss of what £80k could have made in an ISA. Say average 5% per year - £20k.
Not that is matters. If people can afford a van and want one it's there choice.
Aha. I know how to unite T5:owners……
THOSE **** REAR SLIDING WINDOWS. GODAWFUL THINGS
Oh yeah! Remember reading about that and smugly thinking, well mine is ok… then wondering why the seat bases were rusting! Now filled with silicone too.
Anyway, gotta love a California thread. The iPhones of the van world. Buy one and forever be told how problematic and expensive they are. Still looking forward to the MB Marco Polo or Westfalia Nugget thread!
I bought a t5.1 California a yr old 9 yrs ago. I just sold it and the depreciation cost me less than £1k per yr.
It had a couple of niggles that the dealer fixed under warranty.
We used it as a couple plus dog and used it in the uk for instant weekends away, long walks coming back in the winter to a warm van and hot soup etc for lunch and an afternoon reading the papers with amazing scenery. We went t round the coast of france in it and found some amazing places. The ability to go abroad and go west or south depending on the weather is great. If you get somewhere campsites full it’s no problem. There always an Aire.
Bike went inside if I was on my own. Seats slide forward on rails and loads of room. Easy enough to clean out.
We’ve got two kids now and we got rid of it to get a 7 berth motorhome. Luckily I walk to work so dont need to commute in it! It means the two kids have a bunk each and we have a super king above the cab all made up ready. Shower and toilet etc and winterised so can be used all yr ro7nd. It’s a pig to drive compared to the Cali but it should be great as we don’t travel round as much with the kids as we did before them.
It’s an ex rental so a bit mullered but it means we’re not as precious about it as we were with the Cali. I don’t think we’ll get such good resale when we get rid of it as the Cali. Who cares if we enjoy it.
Buy my van!
All problems resolved, hence the price… 😁
Not likely, your aufstelldach is gerissen to ****.
Drive the Deal had Calis brand new recently at £50k and Grand Calis at £60k. I took a look and specced a few extras, the Grand Cali wasn't far short of £100k!! Admittedly some of the extras were poncy paint jobs etc but still!
I see the appeal if confidence in residuals remains high but it would be painful if they don't. We're lucky that a good friend lends us his conversion a couple of times a year!
Not likely, your aufstelldach is gerissen to ****.
Al fresco sleeping. Gets you closer to nature!
Al fresco sleeping. Gets you closer to nature
Yep. Try that with some Scottish midgies and it really would be 'to the bite'
I used drive the deal to get a price for my new Cali in December. It gave me an ok price which I took to my local dealer who beat it easily. Don’t always trust online places.
As I said at the start of this thread, I’ve had 2 California’s and am waiting for my third. You either get the concept and love it or don’t, there’s no in between. Personally I wouldn’t be without one whilst I’ve got bikes and kids.
Annoyingly this thread is making me think of chopping in my T5 for a Beach. Waiting list’s probably in artesanal steel frame territory though…
Down here is Cornwall I refer to them as Clitorises, every.........has one!!! Sorry
14 decent holidays abroad. Or 7 utterly incredible ones
Yeah but if youve got the van, you can go away every weekend, or even in the week.
You can have a coffee in any car park, youve got a reasonable sized changing room.
Bikes go on the inside, whole, not dangling off the back.
I love having a van.
Having said that, the VWs are no better than anything else. The price premium is scene tax.
Sold my T5 as the fam got bigger. It was ok. Drove well, strong engine and the doors closed with a satisfying thunk. Friend of mine has a 200bhp 4wd one, a slight lowering and its rapid, comfortable and quiet.
But mine drank oil, ate turbos and driveshafts, and had a few blatant design flaws.
Not even that good as a van, as my SWB was just shy of 2440 long, other than directly on the floor.
Bought a 5 seater transit to replace it, and really like it.
Live axel RWD on leaf springs, so it doesn't handle like a car like the T5 does, but im not bothered about that.
I can stand up in it, we can have a double bed AND a second row of seats. very comfortable in the front. Its just a fat Focus.
Interesting discussion RE value holding etc, seems the best scenario is to have bought one a couple years ago at least, can’t see the current prices returning the same once COVID etc is over. ALthough the Ford/VW merger thing might mean old ones go up in value...
I looked at them but in the end bought a Transit as the extra width meant I could get a double bed, toilet and a double (MTB) garage in a low roof SWB. Plus the advantage that it cost me 7k all in rather than 30K, current prices suggest I’d actually earn a few quid if I sold it
Friend of mine has a 200bhp 4wd one, a slight lowering and its rapid, comfortable and quiet.
0-60 in 10 seconds might be reasonable for a van, but I wouldn't consider it rapid - a similarly priced 5 series estate would be under half that and return better economy
it's perfectly adequate for any vehicle though, and a lot safer than you bombing along the motorway in your BMW estate ****ing yourself silly over your performance and fuel economy while not really understanding the point of a van 🤣0-60 in 10 seconds might be reasonable for a van, but I wouldn’t consider it rapid – a similarly priced 5 series estate would be under half that and return better economy
Reading the replies to this thread shows there are quite a few choices when it comes to family/camping vans. The California is an expensive to buy option. There are cheaper alternatives. However I am very happy with my Beach. The main point I think is a van properly set up to suit your needs is way better than a car and tent in so many ways.
Economics wise it’s down to the individual. My Beach was around £40k but you can buy an old van for £5k and do it up yourself.
I could have bought a £30k estate five years ago it would now be worth £10k and I wouldn’t have had all the family weekends away fun I’ve had with the Beach. Choice was depreciation of £20k on an estate or £5-10k on my Beach. Running costs are around the same. Reliability about the same.
-60 in 10 seconds might be reasonable for a van, but I wouldn’t consider it rapid – a similarly priced 5 series estate would be under half that and return better economy
might as well buy something actually rapid rather than a 5 series since the 5 series estate wouldnt be very good at the things that the VW actually does well....
Running costs are around the same.
Oh come on! You'll be saying it's as nice to drive as a car next...