[Closed] VW California economics

My folks got a nearly new one for more like £50k I think, but they've had quite a few issues with it - don't think they'd buy one again.

You’re forgetting the fact that it will have a pretty decent residual value, so it’s not as expensive as you think if you can afford the initial outlay. Still a lot though and I’m with you in spirit. The number of new cars £50k+ on the road amazes me but I guess most are on finance?

Buy it for £25k sell it for £20k 5 years later and that’s not too bad. (Or 50k vs £45 etc)

You really have to look at cost of ownership over the period you want it for, not the outright price.

VWs are expensive (both the California and 3rd party campers) but they do tend to hold their value better than others.

No, I wouldn’t buy one either.

I knew someone who always had a new one in order, pick it up, drive for six months, sell it back to dealer for the person who wants one immediately rather than join the waiting list.

now has a fairly successful business doing VW van conversions and upgrades with their own pod system. The money people spend upgrading s/h vans is staggering.

I’ve owned 2 of them. I run them as my main car.
First one I had for 3 years and 18000 miles. Sold for £1500 less than I paid.

Second one I’ve had for 7 years and 60,000 miles. It’s worth roughly what I paid because I got a good deal and also because prices have risen massively.

There’s no other car I could buy that costs so little, I can Chuck 3 bikes inside and gives us great family holidays.

Yeah they’re overpriced, they break and they’re now being targeted by thieves but they are amazing. I’ve ordered a new one which is hopefully arriving in June. Anyone want to buy a California? 😁

Ditto. I should be there target demographic really, but the whole 'Dub' 'Vanlife' scene genuinely makes me cringe!!! I'd pay more to not own one....don't know a single owner of one that hasn't had multiple 1k plus repair bill's.

We do own a couple of month old motorhome though! As to why compared with a tent.....I ****ing hate having my holiday in a tent. Done it for the majority of my life. PITA to put up/pack down. Everything is ALWAYS wet. You sleep on the floor.

Motorhome: park up, turn on gas. Remove craft beer/artisan wine and cheese from fridge and you're good to go. You don't have to use the minging shared facilities on a campsite. Water tanks/batteries/solar panel etc mean 3 days 'wild camping' (it's not) are doable. Ours was cheaper than a new California too. Not really practical to drive day to day though, only does about 28mpg thus far, and handles like a bus. Just means you chill out driving though imo, tunes on, heading to Lakes/Snowdonia/hopefully Scotland soon with my gf and pooch on board and life truly does feel good!

I'd sort of get the California if it had got a toilet and shower. I'd still have to paint over the badge though

They are expensive for what they are, but as VW hikes the price every year and there is high demand the depreciation is close to zero.

I've done the maths for a van a few times.

Depreciation isn't too bad on a good one.
Insurance.
Tax.
Maintenance.
Site fees.
Fuel.

If you stay off-site, you can save.

But realistically you have to use the thing every other weekend and a few weeks a year for it to get good value (and even then, costs are related to usage).

They're not about the money. They are about the flexibility to just go, with a bit of kit....

I also cannot afford a third vehicle - so it would be a daily driver...

I used to massively lust after a camper but I'm starting to wonder if there's any point now because it seems like every man and his dog (and their dogs) is getting one and any decent spots are going to be crowded to buggery most of the time and then closed off/ruined. Maybe for a different thread.

My conclusion is that for most people most of time the maths doesn't work. It's a very expensive way of going on holiday.If your doing weekends as well as holidays then that help with camper economics

A colleague at work has one with what seems like every extra. It's what's they want and love. I don't think it's about maths to them. It's about how they see their life style. It's about arriving at the beach in it. Oh and there's allot less packing apparently

crowded to buggery

Probably not quite that crowded.

Just like the islabike thing - they keep getting more expensive to buy new which props up secondhand values. The “factory conversion” despite the wrong side door for the UK market is more appealing to many than one ragged as a builders van then converted.

They depreciate a few grand a year which is manageable for many particularly if you use it as a family car. Loads get used as dayvans, trips to the beach, comfy shelter when it’s tipping down, etc. There’s motorhomes with lots more space for the same money but not that you can drive and park anywhere you would a car.

Lots of things have cheaper alternatives, but there’s enough people who want that and can afford it.

Well they don’t work for me, I don’t need a crappy kitchen but I do like the 4 berth ‘beach’ concept with pop top, aux battery, heating etc. That part does work. Outside of confinement we’re in the Pyrenees or north coast of Spain most weekends, if it’s just me I’ll camp but with family the van makes sense (currently use a t5 with bed for that).

What does interest me is why single out the California? Cursory google show the Marco Polo and Nugget both north of 60k euros.

And what are the 1k+ repair bills for? Because on the T5 I’ve had a few expensive repairs , wheel bearings, glow plug stuck, but nothing I wouldn’t expect on any other 12 year old vehicle. Are these bills for the camper specific parts? Or is the T6.1 less reliable than the earlier models?

The “one life live it” stickers are cringeworthy sure, but I’ve never got this ill feeling towards Cali owners. Doesn’t exist in this part of the world.
When the Germans and Swiss turn up in their huge Hymers with car trailers on the campsite round here, I can’t imagine sitting with my OH glaring at them, muttering about how much they’ve spent compared to our modest setup. It’d give me an ulcer.

Perhaps the British are more suited to a more Fawlty Towers style of holiday, save for the Handforth Parish Council types who booze their way through France every year in their motorhomes.

But realistically you have to use the thing every other weekend and a few weeks a year for it to get good value (and even then, costs are related to usage).

I weighed this up too, albeit for a cheaper van. I’m sure it would make more sense financially to rent one a few times a year, staying in Formula1s instead of pitching up in an aire on long journeys, although ours is our only vehicle and sees proper use most weekends Easter til Oct/Nov plus 8 weeks or so of school hols.

I bought one four years ago. It’s been my only vehicle and I love it. I don’t camp in it much but as a family do it all it’s great. Tons of space. The diesel heater is great. Great for changing in if going on a bike ride/event. Reliable I’ve had no problems with mine. Much more comfortable than a car on a long drive to France for instance.

Depreciation is lower than any normal car. What’s not to like. I reckon the cost of ownership is pretty low if you sell at the right time. Cost to buy it initially was quite high but I could get most of my money back.

I have looked at dozens and haven't figured out the economy yet. Vastly overpriced and actually not that nice compared to some other makes.

What sort of fuel economy do you get out of the van conversions?

We hired one in either 2016 or 2017 for a weekend as a try before you buy type concept. I liked the ease of parking etc, but didn't really feel like it drove that well, and it seemed fairly thirsty although I didn't workout mpg. This was a T5 that the owner had converted rather than factory conversion.

Unconverted, I do quite like the drive of the T5 and T6, had a go in a 4wd T6 just before lockdown which was nice. I'd always thought we'd do a Transit Custom as a conversion, but we decided that we really wanted a shower and toilet. Then we ended up needing to live in one for 18 months, so bought a motorhome instead.

I get the desire to go away every weekend. But Airbnb/nice hotel/city breaks/van hire sounds nicer/more flexible to me.

I get the low depreciation thing, but who has £50k capital they want to sink into a (really nice) shed on wheels? Stick it investments and use the earnings for a variety of holidays?

I do respect those that are using it to hit the best surf spot or mountains every weekend, driving to the alps in the winter, etc. Hashbrownvanlife. I guess in my head that person doesn’t match with the type that would have £50k in the bank for a California though.

I don’t have any ill feeling towards California’s or their owners, they look amazing and the owners I’ve met have been lovely. I guess I mean any kind of motorhome that costs more than 10 annual family skiing-in-the-alps/Disney world/Far-East-island-hopping incredible holidays.

The fuel economy on mine is better than my previous car (Volvo XC70).

I get about 500 miles on a tank of fuel if it’s mostly long runs. About town it’s about 400 miles on a tank of fuel. Mines is a T6 150bhp 2 litre diesel. It has stop start on it. It has a 70 litre fuel tank so fuel economy for me is about 6.5 - 7.5 miles per litre which is around 29 to 34 miles per gallon.

I have looked at dozens and haven’t figured out the economy yet. Vastly overpriced and actually not that nice compared to some other makes.

As someone who thinks cars are a waste of money and drives around in 10yr old bangers I did the maths and bought a new one 3.5 years ago. I didn’t go mad with options and got a pretty good deal. There are a few up for sale that are a similar age and are between 1-2K more than I paid for mine new so zero depreciation. They are very cheap to insure, around £230 and you can sit on the motorway with the adaptive cruise taking all the stress away and it will do 40mpg+. To be fair I’ve not used mine as much as I thought due to covid and some other factors but when it’s not really costing me anything I don’t care. Had it setup in the garden over the summer as my home office.

For us, with our motorhome we did mull it over for a long time. Ours is part financed....monthly payments are cheaper than renting a house, and as we're living in it for 18 months to 2 years whilst we do a barn conversion, we justified it that way.

We'll use it for a couple of ski trips per season, and whatever other holidays we do. We're not really beach/hotel people.

Ultimately I'm still unsure if the economics really add up, they probably do for us as we're living in it, but we'd have bought one even if we weren't.

They look great when new. But part of me thinks, if I come back from a day out in the hills covered in mud, do I really want to get into my nice clean £60k van, with no shower!

I’d be scared to use it! Occasionally I think they would be great, especially before and after long fell races, but where do you keep all your minging wet stuff?

don’t know a single owner of one that hasn’t had multiple 1k plus repair bill’s.

You do now so that’s your stats blown.

Owned mine from new for 4 years. I’d sell it for a few £k less than purchase price. But that won’t happen as it has been a fantastic car to own and drive.

I have friends with them and I have to say I don’t get it. I live Campervan’s and we own an adria twin which we love. The problem we have with the vw is the costs but also how small and impractical they are. Pop tops are no better than tenting, they have no bathroom facilities and you can’t move in them. To top it all off our van was way cheaper than the vw and is still valued at £5k less than we paid for it 3 years ago

They look great when new. But part of me thinks, if I come back from a day out in the hills covered in mud, do I really want to get into my nice clean £60k van, with no shower!

I’d be scared to use it! Occasionally I think they would be great, especially before and after long fell races, but where do you keep all your minging wet stuff?

I have waterproof seat covers on mine and we use throws on the seats when camping. I was a bit stressed out with the kids spilling stuff when it was new but that has worn off now. Have the 4 bike rack on the back and chuck the muddy stuff in the boot, the bike rack also doubles as a clothes drier when it’s warmer. We have a shower attachment for the sink so can rinse sand off feet and legs if we’ve been to the beach.

The problem we have with the vw

Again, other 60K+ small campervan are available...

Can’t beat a seasonal VW fanboi/hater thread.
Personally can’t see the attraction in buying a California when there’s plenty of decent converters out there. £1000’s worth of repairs?? Well I’ve owned a T5.1 conversion since 2013 and the biggest bill was for the cam belt & water pump-from a main dealer it was £400. And that wasn’t a repair, more of standard running costs.
Personally I’m amazed at the amount of folk who are neither willing nor able to undertake basic repairs on their vehicles. VW have got a massive online community to assist in repairs. Massively reduces costs if you can be bothered.

Economics are crazy.

Ergonomics are crap. Load lugging space isn't much, especially if more than two of you. The shelf that becomes part of the bed seems like a fudge. Can't open cupboards if the bed is down. The kitchen next to the window is great for a sauna like feeling.

And to top it off, UK vans are essentially Euro vans with the steering wheel on the wrong side.

Converted a LWB T5 myself to avoid some of the pitfalls of the cali layout.

Lengthways bench that pulls out to bed
Can cook inside or out as the "kitchen" is at the rear. Can transport three bikes/snowboards /full size 2.5x1.25m sheets inside. Can carry five folks with 2nd row of seats fitted.

Has a hilo pop top fitted, but sleeping up top is just glorified camping. Awful in windy conditions (UK). Gets too warm when the sun hits it (Italy /Spain etc). Using it makes the diesel heater redundant (winter in the alps).
Pop top also makes it bloody obvious that you're sleeping in the van.

Even so, too many compromises. Wouldn't do it again.

It depends what you want out of it really - everyone is different. For me the joy of camping is making do, breakfast sat on the ground, adapting etc. I actually enjoy that and it separates it from the rest of my life, and for that reason we purposely don’t have a sink etc (not Cali - converted T6). However I fully realise that isn’t for everyone.

My parents have a top of the range Sprinter conversion. It’s really nice and in the winter we have really appreciated camping with them with their sofa, full oven etc. However my Mum has mixed views of it - as like me, she feels a bit detached from nature in it. Also my Dad is so precious about it, there is a lot of faff! However they have done way more trips that they would of before - because it’s just there on the drive ready to go (well I say that, but it does seem to take a least half a day for them to leave!).

I’d be scared to use it! Occasionally I think they would be great, especially before and after long fell races, but where do you keep all your minging wet stuff?

Totally understandable Q. We converted ours with a false bulkhead at the back of a LWB which keeps all the minging stuff (and bikes) away from everything else and means you don’t sleep with the smell of sheep s**t or rotting boots. Again why a Cali wasn’t a solution for us personally.

Our T6 is our daily driver, and quite simply a lifestyle choice. We have few vices (apart from bikes!), no dependants etc.

I’ve had 3, 2 Oceans and a Beach. The Beach I sold a year old with loads of options for 5k more than I paid for it !
We got fed up of wet camping and they are just too small for 3 (or 4) people. We bought a big white box that our bikes go in the garage, it has a shower and a toilet, oven etc-has been amazing esp last summer when we could get to places with no facilities. Yes it’s awful to drive, yes it’s a big white offensive box but I like it. We’ve got one kid and camping means she’s never on her own and meets kids which is why we avoid hotels and cottages etc
You either want to camp or don’t. We also use it in the winter a fair bit obvs not this year but we’ve been skiing in it at weekends which has been v useful-out of school at 3 on a Friday, cracking a beer at Glenshee at 5:30.
Calis are , or were, well made. A lot of kit in a small space with some genuinely clever things like the seats in the tailgate and table in the door. The owners can be a bit rabid about any negative statements though 😂

We bought a big white box that our bikes go in the garage, it has a shower and a toilet, oven etc

Ha ha - join the queue 😂

The owners can be a bit rabid about any negative statements though 😂

Me included. It's our only car, we've travelled all round Europe in it. Been skiing with 2 kids. Carried many bikes. Camped anywhere and everywhere. Moved house using it. Done numerous dump trips. For us it is perfect. I can fault a few annoying things with trim but having owned a motorhome and a T25 conversion it's factory built for me forever. If you want a balanced view look up the vwcalifornia forum where there is lots of good discussion on the pros/cons. It's rare to find a true hater who has owned one.

Been skiing with 2 kids. Carried many bikes. Camped anywhere and everywhere. Moved house using it. Done numerous dump trips.

Done all this in our massive estate car and tents so whats the benefit of the van? Ability to sleep in a layby?

Done all this in our massive estate car and tents so whats the benefit of the van? Ability to sleep in a layby?

Your estate car won’t have a cooker, sink, fridge, night heater and won’t be able to sleep 4 people. They are far from perfect but the overriding reason I have one is the cost of ownership (so far for me in the last 3.5yrs) has pretty much been zero.

Been skiing with 2 kids. Carried many bikes. Camped anywhere and everywhere. Moved house using it. Done numerous dump trips.

Done all this in our massive estate car and tents so whats the benefit of the van? Ability to sleep in a layby?

It's a bit nicer to sleep in and cook in than a tent, especially in the Alps in winter. We've done lots of Aire stops in it. And the chicks dig it more than an estate.

They do seemingly [s] attract people who pay over the odds [/s] keep thier value.

/blockquote>

Been for a sale a while that one. Waiting for the right mug customer who doesn't see the welding done on theprevious mots as an indicator of future MOTs. But someone has to get stung In the holding their value Ponzi scheme 🙂

The values been had out of that one now it's gonna cost you.

A quick tally of vw expensive bills in my riding group is 1 clutch <40k miles/4 years old due to leaking slave . 2 *2.5 engines and a few drive shafts. Enough for me to not see where the value in having so much invested that you HAVE to stump up for the expensive repairs.

Each to their own.

 

Driveshafts went on mine a a couple of years back.

Turbo is due to be replaced along with some struts (notchy steering at low speeds).

Your estate car won’t have a cooker, sink, fridge, night heater and won’t be able to sleep 4 people. They are far from perfect but the overriding reason I have one is the cost of ownership (so far for me in the last 3.5yrs) has pretty much been zero.

Value retention I see the benefit of. Expensive way to carry a camping cooker and powered coolbox! My mates who have transporters say that once the kids got to 10 years old they couldn't all 4 sleep in there and it was too cramped to do anything social inside. So they take tents as well. Skiing/biking convenience sounds good for 2 once kids have gone!

I'd rather have something I like rather than something that doesn't depreciate a lot.
They just don't seem to cut it compared to many others I've seen.

I know why folk buy them.

I REALLY wanted one, but just couldn’t make sense of it. I went to look at one and couldn’t get away from how small they are. We had a 6 bed touring caravan and the every morning / evening Jenga did everyone’s head in, so that got me looking at alternatives. I ended up with a LWB transit DCIV sport which discretely transports 2x 29er’s without removing a wheel, our own toilet AND a static caravan just outside Penrith for less than the Cali I was looking at.......
Horses for courses and all that.....

People take the piss out of me for driving a transit, but that’s ok. I tried being cool back in about 1997 and it didn’t work out, so haven’t been bothered since!

Spend all that money to sleep in a tiny van with no facilities - naaaah, I'd rather have a nice car and drive to a posh hotel! 🙂

Don't like the layouts of the vw bands.
This is about the best layout i have seen, combined with a pump up shower and a tailgate i think it would work for us

Just wait a couple of years for the T7, then you can get one, slam the door, and say "Just like a Transit".

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/analysis-what-ford-and-volkswagens-tie-means