Ultrarunner race lift

It seems that there were other reports, and all her friends and colleagues were sad, but who offered her the lift?

As I read it. She was off course, she was offered a lift to the next checkpoint, when she said she was going to quit she was given some "advice" about at least carrying on noncompetitively (this is common enough). She did so but ended up 3rd. Up to that point she had every chance to explain what had happened but somehow then didn't. Embarrassment?

the use of GPX data

Surely it would be easy to alter GPX files if you wanted to?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65322631

Dr Zakrzewski, said: "I'm an idiot and want to apologise to Mel. It wasn't malicious, it was miscommunication.

Dr Zakrzewski said she regretted not clarifying with the marshals at the end of the race that she was not running competitively.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65322631

She spills her guts here. Seems a bit chippy about it rather than as mortified as she should be, no?

Third place in the race has now been awarded to Mel Sykes.

Do they mean that Mel Sykes?

My first reaction was “Cheat, hell mend her”. But after reading a bit more about it would be prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. Looks a genuine mistake. And she seems very embarrassed about it.

Although she’ll never get away with a second “mistake”.

I know Mel who finished 3rd.

I have seen the gpx data...it definitely isn't a genuine mistake

Sounds like she had plenty of time to hold her hands up, but didn't.

I've ran ultra's and understand not being sound of mind at times. But not being sound of mind enough to take to the podium having been in a car? Nah. She knew she had cheated, perhaps justified it to herself that the car was only used to get her back on course, and took a chance that she wouldn't be caught.
Not a genuine mistake at all.

So she's a cheat, and thick as mince too (putting the evidence on Strava, nice one).

If she's a medical doctor, I'm glad I'm not one of her patients.

https://twitter.com/nuddypants/status/1648615661394882560?s=20

I follow Mel on Twitter and Insta and she comes across as really down to earth and quite tolerable. This has really pissed her off and I totally get it.

Dr Cheater's palmares are decent:

https://worldathletics.org/athletes/great-britain-ni/joasia-zakrzewski-14417244

I wonder how many of those are honest? Just looked and she's a GP - she's probably got access to any pharma she wants...

scotroutes
Full Member

As I read it. She was off course, she was offered a lift to the next checkpoint, when she said she was going to quit she was given some “advice” about at least carrying on noncompetitively (this is common enough). She did so but ended up 3rd. Up to that point she had every chance to explain what had happened but somehow then didn’t. Embarrassment?

but then "she saw a friend on the side of the course and she accepted a lift in his car to the next checkpoint to tell marshals she was pulling out of the race."

but then “she saw a friend on the side of the course and she accepted a lift in his car to the next checkpoint to tell marshals she was pulling out of the race.”

Why did you trim what I wrote before you requoted it?

@finbar

Your comments are well out of order.

Because nothing else you wrote made any difference to what I was pointing out. Added it now to avoid upset. The point being that if she was off course she couldn't meet a friend on the course

@spin Why? I can't abide cheaters.

Based on her history/conduct and reputation I'm undecided.

That quote feels like it needs a bit of further explanation! Does it mean "it looks like a blatant cheat but she has not acted like a cheat in the past so maybe it's not"; or does it mean "it could be construed as a legitimate error but bearing in mind her reputation I'm not convinced".

I dobbed a club member in once for cheating in an ironman. He was a big lad and in his first IM triathlon. A very back of the middle of the packer. On that route there were 3 laps and it was possible to cut the corner off and significant climb by taking a side road. His time between fob check points (you have a fob on your ankle and ride over timing mats) were entirely predictable apart from between the two far points where his time between the points was faster than any of the pros for two of the laps. On reflect I feel pretty bad/petty dobbing him in but he was being such a dick (still relatively mediocre but his bragging attitude to those he had beaten was unpleasant when you knew the truth). When his name was removed and added to the DQ list, and then discovered when others looked up results in preparation for the following year, it kind of made his IM tattoo slightly embarrassing!

Why? I can’t abide cheaters

I don't like cheating either but in the absence of relevant evidence I'm not going to descend to personal insults, cast aspersions on their professional abilities or suggest they've engaged in criminal behaviour.

The report I read said that she told the marshals at the checkpoint when she got out of the car that she was stopping. So she knows that some officials saw her get out of the car.

Surely it must be an honest (if very odd) mistake. No way she thought that those marshals weren’t going to say anything when she stepped onto the podium…?

“Oh look, that lady we saw in the car managed to come third!”

Shouldn't the marshalls have informed 'race control' of people pulling out which would have prevented the scenario at the podium?

TheGingerOne
Full Member
Shouldn’t the marshalls have informed ‘race control’ of people pulling out which would have prevented the scenario at the podium?

I got the impression that the marshalls hadn't actually seen/noticed her get out of the car and just thought she was wanting to quit. Hence the words of encouragement

When I DNF’d a long distance trail race (Marsden Edale as it happened) I made sure the MR at Snake Top knew very well I was quitting and to mark me down as such before getting a lift to the finish. And I didn’t then get out and sprint across the line.

There was a case a while back when a woman won the Boston Marathon only to transpire she’d got the subway most of the way.

There def feels like there is something missing.

At the end of the day it's been put right. Yes, Mel missed out on her podium slot etc but it's been put right.

For balance, Jo Zakrzewski used to do the local hill races here and always came across as really nice and friendly.  Left us all for dead on the climbs!  I'd like to think it's nothing more than a mistake.

No doubt she used to be an elite runner and still is a very good runner.

How did finding out come by, did she come clean or did someone else report the issue / race organisation spot discrepancies?

I got the impression that the marshalls hadn’t actually seen/noticed her get out of the car and just thought she was wanting to quit. Hence the words of encouragement

The article says she told the marshall she had been in a car!

https://twitter.com/RunnersOnTrail/status/1648659623283499010?s=20

Some.serious rage on Twitter about this 🤣

I saw this on the BBC website before, just read it here now. Consequently now read some of the twitter, and it does seem odd that she wouldn't have said something rather than climb on the podium and style it out.

I'm also a bit surprised at the ongoing commenting by the offended runner; sure she's pissed off but to me she's gone beyond the original statement of fact and rightful indignation, and the continued commenting and responding to others feels a bit like now putting the boot in, is there some previous beef that is driving this?

theotherjonv
Full Member
I saw this on the BBC website before, just read it here now. Consequently now read some of the twitter, and it does seem odd that she wouldn’t have said something rather than climb on the podium and style it out.

I’m also a bit surprised at the ongoing commenting by the offended runner; sure she’s pissed off but to me she’s gone beyond the original statement of fact and rightful indignation, and the continued commenting and responding to others feels a bit like now putting the boot in, is there some previous beef that is driving this?

I just can’t see the point in cheating in a low key ultramarathon - no or little prize money and it isn’t like it is an olympics qualifier.

The Mel Sykes who was third seems well wound up about it as well - maybe these ultramarathons are more competitive than I thought!😎

No one really knows what substances anyone is taking anyways ?

Wayne Drinkwater, the director of the GB Ultras race, said after the ultramarathon he received information a runner had gained an "unsporting, competitive advantage during a section of the event".

He said: "After the event, there was no attempt by Joasia to make us aware of what had happened and to give us an opportunity to correct the results or return the third place trophy during the course of the subsequent seven days.

At the end of the race,did she actually step up on to a physical podium to accept the third place/prize, because that would be one big chunk of spaced outness.

If that’s the case, and a friend was waiting for her with a car, it doesn’t look good.

Wayne Drinkwater, the director of the GB Ultras race,

Not so much nominative determinism as nominative race tips.

"After the event, there was no attempt by Joasia to make us aware of what had happened and to give us an opportunity to correct the results or return the third place trophy during the course of the subsequent seven days.

You don't finish the race "non competitively" then take the trophy and not tell anyone for a week.

Presumably the GPS data for every competitor is not examined in detail after every race. Perhaps she thought there was a decent chance of getting away with it.

Still none the wiser really are we? Going by the twitter spats it looks as though the rightful 3rd place (the other Mel Sykes) must have rumbled and complained, then the GPX/Strava investigation

Being (very?) generous perhaps Zakrzewski got in a bit too deep, then in a spectacular misjudgement decided to try to style it out through embarrassment, perhaps not expecting the scrutiny in a minor race.

But yeah, still just seems very very odd given the apparent low-key nature of the race, and probably trivially obvious lift - implication on twitter that a low HR gave it away (and presumably speed, unless maybe the GPX was ham-fistedly modified - as others have noted GPXs are easy to manipulate, although more tricky to do whilst also lining up with any other race checkpoint times).

Also noted on twitter shades of the Kielder bus cheat:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-15252687

Navigation is part and parcel of ultra racing.

Joasia isn't some running savant that just appeared out of the bush and can claim ignorance as a defence. She's been racing at a reasonably high level for a decade or more. Whether she's also cheated in the past or not, she will be acutely aware that it's not okay to get in a car to get back on course if you've messed up.

low HR, zero cadence, and doing 1.4 mins/mile......

Perhaps she thought there was a decent chance of getting away with it.

Or....
These Ultra events are super tough,maybe she thought the whole car/getting a lift thing,had been part of a dream/hallucination moment when she was right at the limit. 😉 😃

I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news. It’s a pretty low key race

I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news. It’s a pretty low key race

I'd like to think it is because the vast majority ofcompetitors are honest and getting disqualified for cheating is big news because it is so rare.

I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news. It’s a pretty low key race

It's the commedy value for the general public of someone using a car in a running race, a novelty story for those who aren't into running.

On reflect I feel pretty bad/petty dobbing him in but he was being such a dick

I didn't dob someone in for cheating in a hill race by using GPS and robbing me of 3rd place. Up to that point they were a mate of sorts, it wasn't a massive race and I didn't have any hard evidence. On reflection I kind of wished I had dobbed them in!

The guilty culprit has since moved to Australia.

serious rage on Twitter

Business as usual then 😀

I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news.

As a former news editor, this is a dynamite story. I'd bet it was top of a few "most read" stats yesterday.

The guilty culprit has since moved to Australia.

She actually popped back to do this race, it seems. So maybe she justified the cheating via sunk costs?

The 'London Marathon Cheats' thread on the Runnersworld forum, was always one of my favourites. People used to spend a great deal of time hunting, analysing split times, checking the photos, looking into previous race performance of Pof10 etc.

I have no doubt there was the odd 'honest' cheat amongst them, dropped out, got a lift to the finish and somehow registered a time collecting their bag, but the majority seemed to have jumped the barrier after tower bridge and just brazenly carried on. Many didn't realise they were setting world class times for those sections of the race, they would have been better off having a rest and a coffee before starting again.

There are some things about the current case which are extremely fishy, based only on the none details in the article. Her leg started to hurt and a friend with a car was conveniently there (looked like a hilly bit as well).

This is not the London Marathon, where if you get back on course, it's difficult to get back off, especially at the finish. She could have easily not crossed the line.

The line about not wanting to interfere with the 2nd woman's race, or not wanting to be asked 'how the f did you get here?'

The whole thing reeks!

When his name was removed and added to the DQ list, and then discovered when others looked up results in preparation for the following year, it kind of made his IM tattoo slightly embarrassing!

OOF!!

DrP

So if i've got this right...she accepted a lift to the checkpoint in order to drop out of the race, decided to continue instead, placed 3rd and accepted it and then didn't admit the cheating until rumbled a week later.
Sure, it may only be a minor race, but what a way to end your running career - she might as well just give up now and take up cycling!

it kind of made his IM tattoo slightly embarrassing!

Could you suggest he gets it amended to "I'M a cheat"?

There's obviously more to this than meets the eye. I wonder if she has been coerced in some way. Who was driving the car I wonder?

Ultra races are a bit unique anyhow aren't they.

I've often wondered what's to stop someone getting on an ebike etc. Even with tracking etc some times competitors can be miles apart completely off the beaten track without any marshalls etc.

I've even been up on our local hill in the early hours shouting words of encouragement to Ultra runners and pointed them in the direction of where they need to go. Is that cheating?

Off topic but in my first and only 24hr MTB event I did in it in a team of 4 with a local club I had only just joined. I'd never even met the other 3 in my team until the day we turned up. Just so you get the full picture, I was a newbie riding a £450 hardtail with some running shorts and a really old football jersey.

In any event, on my 2nd lap (which was probably a fair few hours into the actual event) I started and immediately dumbly took a wrong turn where some tape had dropped and then got called back by another competitor after riding maybe 50-60metres so I realised what I'd done and went back.

Didn't think much of it until the guy who called me back went absolutely nuts, screaming at me for cheating, following me around the whole course yelling at me, bellowing at bemused spectators and their kids about how "number 131 is a ****ing cheat" and they have to report me and so on. There was no reasoning with him at all and I eventually just dropped back to try and avoid the whole unseemly spectacle but then had to listen him yelling insults back at me about how I couldn't keep up with him despite being a dirty cheat.

Anyway, there's literally no point at all to this story other than it still really annoys me years later when I think of it and I assume some competitors must genuinely cheat in even the most casual of events if silly mistakes triggers reactions like that from people.

In retrospect, perhaps it was the riding in a football jersey which triggered him, in which case fair enough really.

In retrospect, perhaps it was the riding in a football jersey which triggered him, in which case fair enough really.

Haha, well these things happen don't they?

I mean, it's not like you kept going along your accidental short cut, crossed the line in 3rd arms aloft, uploaded the short cut ride on Strava, and then splashed it on your Insta account the next week. Then Mr Angry might have had a point.

In any event, on my 2nd lap (which was probably a fair few hours into the actual event) I started and immediately dumbly took a wrong turn where some tape had dropped and then got called back by another competitor after riding maybe 50-60metres so I realised what I’d done and went back.

I was racing a well known event in west Wales, 25ish years ago, and was in the lead group as we climbed a hill on our second lap. We were a bit bemused to pass a few people with race numbers on who were standing at the side of the course having a fag, having obviously ridden down a fire road which linked from one side of the course to the other. Bloody cheats, was the gist, even if they were stopped and having a fag.

Two or three years later, working for a bike company, one of my colleagues described the above event from his perspective of having taken the wrong turn with a few other riders, getting lost, finding they'd cut the course, not knowing what to do so stopped and had a fag and eased in at the back of the field. 😀

Related - I was running an XC race when two runners ahead of me went the wrong way, going totally off piste.

I shouted at them but they didn't hear me (being a decent way in front), briefly putting me in 2nd place!

Sadly they found their way back to the course - re-joining behind me, not taking a shortcut - and overtook me again, and I finished 4th 😀 .

Lol similar thing happened to me in a road sportive which rightly or wrongly, was being treated as a race by a lot of people. I got dropped from what you might call a "lead group" very early on and then spent an age ploughing ahead solo without seeing a single sole in front or behind.

Next thing I know, the exact same group appear behind me, say their hello's for a second or two and then drop me all over again. Transpired that the entire group had taken a wrong turn, performed a reasonably significant detour and then re-joined the course behind me- where they promptly reeled me in and spat me out the back again. So I manged to get dropped twice by the same group despite never catching them in the first place.