We don't seem to have done this yet:
Seems odd when they mention the use of GPX data to expose her that she would even try this - no way in a million years you'd get away with this without cast iron GPX data to back it up at the very least, never mind what seems to be the opposite. Is there more to it?
It seems that there were other reports, and all her friends and colleagues were sad, but who offered her the lift?
As I read it. She was off course, she was offered a lift to the next checkpoint, when she said she was going to quit she was given some "advice" about at least carrying on noncompetitively (this is common enough). She did so but ended up 3rd. Up to that point she had every chance to explain what had happened but somehow then didn't. Embarrassment?
the use of GPX data
Surely it would be easy to alter GPX files if you wanted to?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65322631
Dr Zakrzewski, said: "I'm an idiot and want to apologise to Mel. It wasn't malicious, it was miscommunication.
"I would never purposefully cheat and this was not a target race, but I don't want to make excuses.
"Mel didn't get the glory at the finish and I'm really sorry she didn't get that."
Dr Zakrzewski said she regretted not clarifying with the marshals at the end of the race that she was not running competitively.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65322631
She spills her guts here. Seems a bit chippy about it rather than as mortified as she should be, no?
Third place in the race has now been awarded to Mel Sykes.
Do they mean that Mel Sykes?
My first reaction was “Cheat, hell mend her”. But after reading a bit more about it would be prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. Looks a genuine mistake. And she seems very embarrassed about it.
Although she’ll never get away with a second “mistake”.
I know Mel who finished 3rd.
I have seen the gpx data...it definitely isn't a genuine mistake
Sounds like she had plenty of time to hold her hands up, but didn't.
I've ran ultra's and understand not being sound of mind at times. But not being sound of mind enough to take to the podium having been in a car? Nah. She knew she had cheated, perhaps justified it to herself that the car was only used to get her back on course, and took a chance that she wouldn't be caught.
Not a genuine mistake at all.
So she's a cheat, and thick as mince too (putting the evidence on Strava, nice one).
If she's a medical doctor, I'm glad I'm not one of her patients.
https://twitter.com/nuddypants/status/1648615661394882560?s=20
I follow Mel on Twitter and Insta and she comes across as really down to earth and quite tolerable. This has really pissed her off and I totally get it.
Dr Cheater's palmares are decent:
https://worldathletics.org/athletes/great-britain-ni/joasia-zakrzewski-14417244
I wonder how many of those are honest? Just looked and she's a GP - she's probably got access to any pharma she wants...
scotroutes
Full MemberAs I read it. She was off course, she was offered a lift to the next checkpoint, when she said she was going to quit she was given some “advice” about at least carrying on noncompetitively (this is common enough). She did so but ended up 3rd. Up to that point she had every chance to explain what had happened but somehow then didn’t. Embarrassment?
but then "she saw a friend on the side of the course and she accepted a lift in his car to the next checkpoint to tell marshals she was pulling out of the race."
but then “she saw a friend on the side of the course and she accepted a lift in his car to the next checkpoint to tell marshals she was pulling out of the race.”
Why did you trim what I wrote before you requoted it?
Because nothing else you wrote made any difference to what I was pointing out. Added it now to avoid upset. The point being that if she was off course she couldn't meet a friend on the course
Based on her history/conduct and reputation I'm undecided.
That quote feels like it needs a bit of further explanation! Does it mean "it looks like a blatant cheat but she has not acted like a cheat in the past so maybe it's not"; or does it mean "it could be construed as a legitimate error but bearing in mind her reputation I'm not convinced".
I dobbed a club member in once for cheating in an ironman. He was a big lad and in his first IM triathlon. A very back of the middle of the packer. On that route there were 3 laps and it was possible to cut the corner off and significant climb by taking a side road. His time between fob check points (you have a fob on your ankle and ride over timing mats) were entirely predictable apart from between the two far points where his time between the points was faster than any of the pros for two of the laps. On reflect I feel pretty bad/petty dobbing him in but he was being such a dick (still relatively mediocre but his bragging attitude to those he had beaten was unpleasant when you knew the truth). When his name was removed and added to the DQ list, and then discovered when others looked up results in preparation for the following year, it kind of made his IM tattoo slightly embarrassing!
Why? I can’t abide cheaters
I don't like cheating either but in the absence of relevant evidence I'm not going to descend to personal insults, cast aspersions on their professional abilities or suggest they've engaged in criminal behaviour.
The report I read said that she told the marshals at the checkpoint when she got out of the car that she was stopping. So she knows that some officials saw her get out of the car.
Surely it must be an honest (if very odd) mistake. No way she thought that those marshals weren’t going to say anything when she stepped onto the podium…?
“Oh look, that lady we saw in the car managed to come third!”
Shouldn't the marshalls have informed 'race control' of people pulling out which would have prevented the scenario at the podium?
TheGingerOne
Full Member
Shouldn’t the marshalls have informed ‘race control’ of people pulling out which would have prevented the scenario at the podium?
I got the impression that the marshalls hadn't actually seen/noticed her get out of the car and just thought she was wanting to quit. Hence the words of encouragement
When I DNF’d a long distance trail race (Marsden Edale as it happened) I made sure the MR at Snake Top knew very well I was quitting and to mark me down as such before getting a lift to the finish. And I didn’t then get out and sprint across the line.
There was a case a while back when a woman won the Boston Marathon only to transpire she’d got the subway most of the way.
There def feels like there is something missing.
At the end of the day it's been put right. Yes, Mel missed out on her podium slot etc but it's been put right.
For balance, Jo Zakrzewski used to do the local hill races here and always came across as really nice and friendly. Left us all for dead on the climbs! I'd like to think it's nothing more than a mistake.
No doubt she used to be an elite runner and still is a very good runner.
How did finding out come by, did she come clean or did someone else report the issue / race organisation spot discrepancies?
I got the impression that the marshalls hadn’t actually seen/noticed her get out of the car and just thought she was wanting to quit. Hence the words of encouragement
The article says she told the marshall she had been in a car!
https://twitter.com/RunnersOnTrail/status/1648659623283499010?s=20
Some.serious rage on Twitter about this 🤣
I saw this on the BBC website before, just read it here now. Consequently now read some of the twitter, and it does seem odd that she wouldn't have said something rather than climb on the podium and style it out.
I'm also a bit surprised at the ongoing commenting by the offended runner; sure she's pissed off but to me she's gone beyond the original statement of fact and rightful indignation, and the continued commenting and responding to others feels a bit like now putting the boot in, is there some previous beef that is driving this?
theotherjonv
Full Member
I saw this on the BBC website before, just read it here now. Consequently now read some of the twitter, and it does seem odd that she wouldn’t have said something rather than climb on the podium and style it out.I’m also a bit surprised at the ongoing commenting by the offended runner; sure she’s pissed off but to me she’s gone beyond the original statement of fact and rightful indignation, and the continued commenting and responding to others feels a bit like now putting the boot in, is there some previous beef that is driving this?
I just can’t see the point in cheating in a low key ultramarathon - no or little prize money and it isn’t like it is an olympics qualifier.
The Mel Sykes who was third seems well wound up about it as well - maybe these ultramarathons are more competitive than I thought!😎
No one really knows what substances anyone is taking anyways ?
Wayne Drinkwater, the director of the GB Ultras race, said after the ultramarathon he received information a runner had gained an "unsporting, competitive advantage during a section of the event".
He said: "After the event, there was no attempt by Joasia to make us aware of what had happened and to give us an opportunity to correct the results or return the third place trophy during the course of the subsequent seven days.
At the end of the race,did she actually step up on to a physical podium to accept the third place/prize, because that would be one big chunk of spaced outness.
If that’s the case, and a friend was waiting for her with a car, it doesn’t look good.
Wayne Drinkwater, the director of the GB Ultras race,
Not so much nominative determinism as nominative race tips.
"After the event, there was no attempt by Joasia to make us aware of what had happened and to give us an opportunity to correct the results or return the third place trophy during the course of the subsequent seven days.
You don't finish the race "non competitively" then take the trophy and not tell anyone for a week.
Presumably the GPS data for every competitor is not examined in detail after every race. Perhaps she thought there was a decent chance of getting away with it.
Still none the wiser really are we? Going by the twitter spats it looks as though the rightful 3rd place (the other Mel Sykes) must have rumbled and complained, then the GPX/Strava investigation
Being (very?) generous perhaps Zakrzewski got in a bit too deep, then in a spectacular misjudgement decided to try to style it out through embarrassment, perhaps not expecting the scrutiny in a minor race.
But yeah, still just seems very very odd given the apparent low-key nature of the race, and probably trivially obvious lift - implication on twitter that a low HR gave it away (and presumably speed, unless maybe the GPX was ham-fistedly modified - as others have noted GPXs are easy to manipulate, although more tricky to do whilst also lining up with any other race checkpoint times).
Also noted on twitter shades of the Kielder bus cheat:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-15252687
Navigation is part and parcel of ultra racing.
Joasia isn't some running savant that just appeared out of the bush and can claim ignorance as a defence. She's been racing at a reasonably high level for a decade or more. Whether she's also cheated in the past or not, she will be acutely aware that it's not okay to get in a car to get back on course if you've messed up.
low HR, zero cadence, and doing 1.4 mins/mile......
Perhaps she thought there was a decent chance of getting away with it.
Or....
These Ultra events are super tough,maybe she thought the whole car/getting a lift thing,had been part of a dream/hallucination moment when she was right at the limit. 😉 😃
I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news. It’s a pretty low key race
I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news. It’s a pretty low key race
I'd like to think it is because the vast majority ofcompetitors are honest and getting disqualified for cheating is big news because it is so rare.
I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news. It’s a pretty low key race
It's the commedy value for the general public of someone using a car in a running race, a novelty story for those who aren't into running.
On reflect I feel pretty bad/petty dobbing him in but he was being such a dick
I didn't dob someone in for cheating in a hill race by using GPS and robbing me of 3rd place. Up to that point they were a mate of sorts, it wasn't a massive race and I didn't have any hard evidence. On reflection I kind of wished I had dobbed them in!
The guilty culprit has since moved to Australia.
serious rage on Twitter
Business as usual then 😀
I’m not entirely sure why this has had such a big impact in the news.
As a former news editor, this is a dynamite story. I'd bet it was top of a few "most read" stats yesterday.
The guilty culprit has since moved to Australia.
She actually popped back to do this race, it seems. So maybe she justified the cheating via sunk costs?
