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The largest country in the world has a limited coastline and relies on railways; it will be a huge problem if they collapse
Or, paraphrasing Terry Pratchett, a shame if someone knackered them
The longer this goes on, the more i think it's a russian trolling attempt that's gone spectacularly right. Could still bit them in the bum if Trump gets super annoyed about Putin turning down the European counter offer. But i think it'll just go back to before with US credability even more undermined
At some point Trump is going to realise that Witkoff was mocking him by explaining how to stroke his ego and he will get ditched
At some point Trump is going to realise that Witkoff was mocking him by explaining how to stroke his ego and he will get ditched
Can picture him now, (well, eventually) going "hang on- is this adulation not real?"
The largest country in the world has a limited coastline and relies on railways; it will be a huge problem if they collapse
Or, paraphrasing Terry Pratchett, a shame if someone knackered them
Are we talking big-badda-boom or just sand in the fuel?
As in "Lovely railroad you got here mate. Looks flammable. Shame if it were to spontaneously combust"
At some point Trump is going to realise that Witkoff was mocking him by explaining how to stroke his ego and he will get ditched
Or maybe Witkoff is doing exactly what Trump has instructed him to do. And is letting Russia know exactly what Trump wants.
I think it's been very clear for quite a while now that Trump is very much on Russia's side. I doubt UK, Europe and other former allies aren't fully aware of this too. Unfortunately they all currently depend heavily on the USA, but regardless if the next USA president is the complete opposite of Trump, no country will allow themselves to be so dangerously dependent on the USA again .. and by doing so it has accelerated USAs demise .. quite the paradox MAGA turned out to be.
Unfortunately they all currently depend heavily on the USA, but regardless if the next USA president is the complete opposite of Trump, no country will allow themselves to be so dangerously dependent on the USA again ..
I'll occasionally wonder idly if the UK would ever ditch Trident in favour of "Mer-Sol-Ballistique-Stratégique" from across the channel and thinking... nah seems ridiculous.... But then the Trump admin keeps making it seem ever so slightly less unrealistic and worth the presumably astronomical costs of redesigning the Dreadnought class.
*I don't think that's actually going to happen. I'd just no longer be as shocked if it did
I can understand why they would keep Trident - ultimately it's a security guarantee, and the "would USA allow it to be used" is a very very small query in addition to that world ending one.
But as Ukraine has sadly found out. If Russia, China, or India decided to invade or just destroy your country. Then it's a real possibility the USA provided conventional weapons may have limitations placed on them, and any help or support from the USA would come at a very very heavy price .. if at all.
As others have said early on in this thread. Lots of smaller countries without their own nuclear deterrent will be looking at acquiring one ASAP - Japan & S.Korea I'd guess being dead certs.
S.Korea started developing their own arms industry in response to the USAs unreliablity in the 70's; the EU are trying to start their own now. I think we'll see lots more countries doing the same and also developing their own space/satellite capabilities.
Trump in his ignorance and greed has pretty much played, and now destroyed, the USAs cards of softly perpetuating its dominance and position. It's just a silent race now for countries to decouple from them before a bigger country decides to take a bite .. Taiwan must be petrified!
Taiwan must surely be thinking about nukes too?
Managed to post an incorrect link, tried to delete. Forum weirdness ensued. Who knows whether it's gone, or if I've posted it 6 times instead ..
Taiwan must surely be thinking about nukes too?
They had their legs slapped in the late 80s for looking to acquire them .. maybe they already do have them. How long would it take such a high tech country as theirs to put one together? months or weeks??
How long would it take such a high tech country as theirs to put one together? months or weeks??
Probably months because you need fissile material. As I understand it, plutonium is the easiest to produce, it's a byproduct of civilian nuclear reactors. However, bombs need Pu239, which is created from uranium capturing neutrons inside a reactor. However, if you leave the Pu239 in the reactor for too long, it can capture another neutron and become Pu240, which you can't use to create a bomb. So, you need to swap the fuel out of the reactors much more often in a bomb program than in a civil program if you want to make weapons grade plutonium, but that's monitored. Therefore, to produce weapons grade plutonium, you need to kick out the inspectors and change how the reactors are run. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. probably all have the knowhow in place to make bombs, but they would need time to produce the fissile material and put all the pieces together. That would take months and would be very obvious if they did it.
Managed to post an incorrect link, tried to delete.
You're a step ahead of me; I've never even seen a delete button, let alone tried to use it to delete a post 🙁
Anyone know if the US has stopped intelligence sharing/weapons deliveries ? Seeing as its Thursday
The longer this goes on, the more i think it's a russian trolling attempt that's gone spectacularly right. Could still bit them in the bum if Trump gets super annoyed about Putin turning down the European counter offer. But i think it'll just go back to before with US credability even more undermined
I think that Russia is concerned that this could come back to bite them as well.
The recordings aren't being decried as fake now,
"Commenting on the leak of a recording of a call between top advisers to Trump and Putin, the Kremlin chief rejected the suggestion that Witkoff had shown himself to be biased towards Moscow in peace talks over Ukraine, describing it as nonsense."
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-us-ukraine-text-could-form-basis-future-peace-agreement-2025-11-27/AND
"Representative Brian Fitzpatrick called for a change in strategy, describing on social media the Witkoff call as "a major problem. And one of the many reasons why these ridiculous side shows and secret meetings need to stop.""
"Moscow also raised concerns about the leak to Bloomberg News of the transcript of a call between Witkoff and Putin's foreign policy aide, Yuri Ushakov, in which the U.S. envoy advised Ushakov on how to pitch a peace plan to Trump.
Trump, on Air Force One, brushed aside a question from a reporter about why Witkoff appeared to be coaching Russian officials as "what a dealmaker does" and "a very standard form of negotiation."
But Russia said the leak was an unacceptable attempt to undermine peace efforts and amounted to hybrid warfare."
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/kremlin-says-witkoff-come-moscow-talks-ukraine-peace-next-week-2025-11-26/
There's a certain amount of damage limitation happening to maintain the pretence of engagement in the peace process,
"BISHKEK, Nov 27 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that outline draft peace proposals discussed by the United States and Ukraine could become the basis of future agreements to end the conflict in Ukraine, but that if not Russia would fight on."
"Putin mixed a clear public expression of readiness to engage with the Trump administration over a possible peace plan for Ukraine with several warnings that Russia was prepared to fight on if necessary and take more of Ukraine." https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-us-ukraine-text-could-form-basis-future-peace-agreement-2025-11-27/
AND
"Trump, on Air Force One, brushed aside a question from a reporter about why Witkoff appeared to be coaching Russian officials as "what a dealmaker does" and "a very standard form of negotiation.
But Russia said the leak was an unacceptable attempt to undermine peace efforts and amounted to hybrid warfare."
There seems to be a foreign policy behind-the-scenes power struggle going on in both the US and Russia that's spilled over into the public arena. If that's the case and Trump lashes out with more sanctions and/or weapons then there will be some wrist-slapping to follow. Russia really didn't want its MO to become public knowledge.
It doesn't matter who recorded and released the audio, which is the very obvious redirection now being deployed. The WH has shown its inexperience and Trump shouldn't have been allowed to touch that "deal" with a very long barge pole so there should be some wrist-slapping to follow there as well.
Taiwan must surely be thinking about nukes too?
They had their legs slapped in the late 80s for looking to acquire them .. maybe they already do have them. How long would it take such a high tech country as theirs to put one together? months or weeks??
It would depend on how sophisticated you wanted it to be.
Taiwan has one operational nuclear power plant and ideally you'd use 90% enriched uranium.
If you wanted a quick job then the IAEA says that 20% enriched material “can be used for the manufacture of nuclear explosive devices without transmutation or further enrichment.”
You'd need 25kg of 20% HEU and there are numerous treaties and other safeguards to work through as well (p31)
Iran is thought to be at 60% HEU
Trump has tacoed on his threats to Ukraine.
I can't find it now but I think I saw a report suggesting that a Republican has tabled a motion to hit Russia, and more importantly, countries still doing business with Russia, with sweeping sanctions and sanctions.
This seems to be completely dead now.
It's been resurrected a couple of times but President Trump has always refused to sign it should it progress through the US Congress as far as his desk because he can't control timescales, sanction % and on whom it gets inflicted.
Some Democrats are now concerned about giving such a blunt implement to Trump to "swing wildly", so they've turned against it too.
"The bill, which has not yet reached the floor, would codify existing sanctions and levy tariffs of up to 500 percent on imports from third countries – such as China, India, Iran – that continue purchasing Russian energy while providing little support to Ukraine."
"The bill, spearheaded by Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), boasts 85 co-sponsors – a staggering bipartisan show of force.
Graham said last week that the Senate was “on the threshold of passing this bill.” As of today, that threshold appears farther away than ever.""One House Democrat, speaking exclusively to Kyiv Post, put it bluntly: “There’s a real concern this is less about Russia policy and more about giving the President a trade weapon he can’t be trusted not to swing wildly.”"
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/65138
Sounds like his "peace" plan doesn't have as much support in his party as he likes to pretend.
No. This latest phone leaks/Russian disinformation/stringing Trump along exposing WH inexperience is a debacle. It isn't just the Dems; Reps disapprove too.
The survey, conducted Nov. 26, reveals broad disapproval across party lines, signaling that (a US) administration racing to broker a deal with Moscow and Kyiv before year’s end may be out of step with the (US) electorate.
The topline numbers are bruising: 46% of Americans disapprove of Trump’s handling of the Russia-Ukraine crisis, compared with just 36% who approve. And it’s not soft disapproval – 36% “strongly disapprove,” the single largest block of sentiment in the poll. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/65139
Trump is managing to split his MAGA base too on everything from the ballroom to Venezuela. The Epstein files might be a welcome relief because that's only ever been a slow-burning resentment
A Reuters-Ipsos poll in June showed 52% of Republicans said it was “better for the nation if the US stays out of the affairs of other nations.” https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/18/politics/maga-movement-trump-epstein-division
Just sell weapons systems, keep the US in employment and keep out of Ukraine seems to be the message
BRUSSELS, Nov 28 (Reuters) - Belgian Prime Minister Bart De Wever said the European Union's plan to use frozen Russian state assets to fund Ukraine could endanger the chances for a potential peace deal to end the nearly four-year war.
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/belgium-pm-says-using-frozen-russian-assets-could-derail-ukraine-peace-deal-2025-11-28/
I read that and thought that I'd do some mild digging. Belgium has possibly taken €5bn in revenue on these assets since 2022
Frozen Russian assets held by securities giant Euroclear in Belgium generated €1.7 billion in tax revenue for Belgium last year. That's according to Euroclear’s annual figures. The Belgian government will use the cash to provide aid to Ukraine. The total amount of Russian assets blocked at Euroclear amounts to some 183 billion euros.
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2025/02/06/russia_s-frozen-euroclear-assets-earn-belgium-1-7-billion-euros/
Belgium is also in the top 5 of EU countries importing Russian LNG, some of which it re-exports to other EU countries and persistently refused to meet the suggested 2% contribution to NATO until this August. Most other participants have been discussing 3.5% (+1.5% to total 5%) since June
Belgium, like the other 31 NATO Member States, is expected to spend 2% of its GDP on defence expenditure this year, according to new figures published by the military alliance overnight from Wednesday to Thursday.
It is the first time since this target was set that Belgium has met it. https://www.brusselstimes.com/1721072/belgium-meets-2-nato-target-for-defence-spending-this-year
Norway has offered to financially secure any repercussions from using the Russian money. You have to wonder what the hell is going on in Belgium ?
2 Russian shadow fleet oil tankers hit by kinetic sanctions 👍
link?
edit, found one: https://archive.is/gtYnN
so off the coast of turkey, not sure how happy turkey will be about that sort of thing!
I'm pretty happy. Good ol' sucho
Russia is now selling its gold reserves, and printing money like crazy. Only a matter of time 🤞
I'm pretty happy. Good ol' sucho
That's a very "British" narrator. He's talking about drones blowing up oil tankers in a tone that could equally be used in a 1980s Open University video on Oxbow lakes.
Another tanker hit in the Black Sea 👍
While I'm not upset to see the shadow fleet being sunk, there's a lot of environmentally damaging fuel on those things even when unloaded.
Maybe that risk would be worth taking next time the spy boat shines a high power laser at an RAF plane however.
While I'm not upset to see the shadow fleet being sunk, there's a lot of environmentally damaging fuel on those things even when unloaded.
Maybe that risk would be worth taking next time the spy boat shines a high power laser at an RAF plane however.
Some of the Baltic states (amongst Ukraine's strongest supporters) have expressed concern about this tactic spreading.
Environmentally far safer to target the pipeline infrastructure that connects to the ship just offshore, like they have at Novorossiysk https://kyivindependent.com/drone-strike-forces-russias-novorossiysk-oil-terminal-to-halt-all-loading-operations/
.More difficult to access but they automatically cut the fuel flow if severed
Russia has developed FPV versions of its Geran (Shahed) drones that can manoeuvre, probably to attack Ukrainian light aircraft and helicopters that use guns to shoot the drones down.
Another new Geran variant armed with a Soviet R60 air-to-air missile has been shot down today
Useful APN analysis of the implications of Ukraine's recent attacks on Russia's shadow fleet.
I've expanded on the APN analysis ^^ because it didn't answer questions that I had (yes, I listened to YT, but it was only a short one 😀)
This series of strikes on shadow fleet shipping and infrastructure in the Black Sea are seen as representing "an unprecedented intensity",
Control Risks maritime security analyst Arran Kennedy said that together with a Ukrainian attack that temporarily shut down export operations at the CPC terminal at the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk, which exports Kazakh product, this represented an unprecedented intensity in Ukrainian action at sea.
“In response to the overt attacks in the Black Sea, Russia will likely retaliate against Ukrainian ports, as well as Ukraine-bound and Ukraine-origin shipping in the Black Sea,” Kennedy told Lloyd’s List.
“This will most likely involve heavy bombardments on port infrastructure that cause damage to adjacent commercial ships; direct strikes on berthed or anchored Ukraine-trading vessels in the Gulf of Odesa; and/or attacks against such vessels while underway in the Black Sea, provided they are not in the territorial waters of Nato states.” https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1155706/Russia-likely-to-retaliate-following-Ukraine-attacks-on-shadow-fleet-tankers
Russia has been hitting the Port of Odessa for years, including shelling the port as early as March 2022. This has been replaced by drone and missile activity as the Black Sea became more hostile to the Russian naval fleet, so I'm not sure that they can "retaliate" any more than they already do.
They might attack visiting shipping, more than they occasionally have, but I can't help feeling that it'll be counter-productive for Russia, meanwhile, a third Russian cargo ship is claiming an attack by Ukraine in the Black Sea,
"Turkey’s Directorate of Maritime Affairs said the Midvolga 2 was struck about 80 miles (129 km) off the Turkish coast while sailing from Russia to Georgia with a cargo of sunflower oil."
"Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan condemned the attacks, calling them a “worrying escalation.”
“We cannot condone these attacks, which threaten navigational safety, life, and the environment, especially in our own exclusive zone,” Erdogan said in a televised address. “We are issuing the necessary warnings to all parties regarding such situations.”"
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/65394
Many countries are already concerned that Russian shipping insurance isn't adequate and wouldn't cover the costs of a clean-up from a major spill.
These strikes by Ukraine on shipping will only increase the cost of insurance and the costs of using Black Sea transport, which affects Ukraine and Russia the same.
War risk insurance is already higher for Russian ports than for ports in Ukraine, so percentage increases affect Russia more,
War risk rates for a typical seven-day voyage period, which are set by individual underwriters and are based on the value of the ship, rose to 0.5% for calls to Ukrainian ports from 0.4% over a week ago, shipping and insurance sources said.
War risk insurance for Russian Black Sea ports, which is typically higher, was quoted at between 0.65-0.8% versus around 0.6% last week, the sources added. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/black-sea-shipping-insurance-rates-rise-after-ukraine-attacks-tankers-sources-2025-12-01/
The downside is that the majority of other countries that use the Black Sea are either NATO countries or more supportive of Ukraine than of Russia.
Both Turkiye and Kazakhstan have put commerce and their economies to the fore, but support Ukraine as well. Kazakhstan moves 80% of its oil through Russian infrastructure, but condemned the 2022 invasion and gives Ukraine aid. Turkiye buys a lot of Russian oil but has supported Ukraine with military aid from the beginning, so it's a complicated picture.
Various sources indicate that the Russian shadow fleet is growing. The New York Times estimates that 17% of the world’s tankers belong to Russia, while S&P Global Market Intelligence estimates that 2025 saw a 45% increase in numbers over 2024.
Identity and flag changes mean that the vessels don't get safety checked regularly, while oil transfers at sea to hide the origin of cargo increases risks.
I think we'll have to see how this plays out and whether it spreads to Baltic Sea shipping, rather than Russia's infrastructure
Really hoping this report from the Moscow Times has something to do with Ukraine's hybrid warfare team, and given the volume of normal Russians that will be affected, definitely a case of ohdearnevermindwhatashame. 🤣
Mod: Broken link removed
Oh no! How terrible for them! How will those poor people cope without their Porsches?
Ukraine has denied the attack on the Midvolga2 ^^ and considers it to be Russian disinformation
Ukraine has rejected accusations of involvement in the attack on the Midvolga 2 tanker, which was sailing from Russia to Georgia under the Russian flag with its crew on board, according to Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Heorhii Tykhyi.
"Ukraine has nothing to do with this incident, and we officially refute any allegations of such kind made by Russian propaganda," the spokesperson said.
Tykhyi suggested that Russia may have staged the attack, noting that the vessel's route made no sense. https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-denies-involvement-in-attack-on-russian-1764687208.html
What's gone wrong with this page's formatting?
Reported
It was the broken link. Thanks for reporting.
The Russians have formally declined the US deal, but said that they were were 'aspects of the US deal they could support'. Presumably that they'd take the original 28 point one they came up with. Back in Trumps court...
How high is the risk of America withdrawing all support now?
Marco Rubio is not attending the next NATO meeting, Trump seems far more focused on ousting Maduro than anything else atm
It was the broken link.
Sorry!
How high is the risk of America withdrawing all support now?
Tricky one. If Trump withdraws then Trump doesn't get to 'end' the war and get his Nobel Peace Prize. Also, in vaguely related news theres a deep red state election yesterday that the Dems potentially had a change of winning. If they have (or got very close) that might get the GOP a bit twitchy and might start imparting their will a little more as I get the impression the closeness to Russia is very much Trump and his best buddies thing and the rest of the rand and file are against that.
On the other hand Trump sees this as a money/power thing and countries are his least concern, the 'might is right' idealism might mean the most he can do for Putin is to leave them to it without him.
Think it basically depends who speaks to him last before he makes his announcement.
Seems rather late in the day but... EU to ban Russian gas imports next year