[Closed] UKIP in balanced & reasoned argument shocker

He is right, it would be madness, Bongo Bongo land doesn't exist other than in the mind of the average UKIP voter and Jim Davidson, how could you even send money there?

[img] [/img]

What he said doesnt seem very different from the rest of the bullshit polititians spout.

Well that should make him quite popular with some voters.

shock horror politian says what majority of folks who might vote for him think...

just because its not politically polite doesnt mean its not a valid debate.

Do they have fracking in bongobongo land? I heard it is a desolate wasteland with no-one living there...

Is bongo bongo land near here it must have good roads and nice weather if they spend all our aid on sunglasses and Ferraris . It must also have a thriving economy otherwise they would spend our aid on food and medicine and infrastructure. I wonder what their immigration policy is like ?

what is really depressing is that someone so obviously stupid was elected even to the european parliament (which no one is that bothered about- apart from ukippers)

The BBC thoughtfully provides a little video showing where bongo bongo land is

Perhaps the fella should watch it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22297260

What I find most disappointing in this is what I presume is the willful nonrecognition of what public aid is. Yes, there [i]may[/i] be some "generosity" involved but it is also a cheaper and more productive means of promoting non-warring values, stability and democratic values (some call it soft power and a way of reducing military spending). All politicians know this, unless Bloom really is a ****less, dim-witted, ***king misleading moron.

All politicians know this, unless Bloom really is a ****less, dim-witted, ***king misleading moron.

From what you say, he is either a moron. Or deliberately misleading voters by playing an emotive issue for his own benefit.

I can't imagine a politician either being (a) stupid or (b) deceitful 🙄

How do you Bongo Bongo land? What's the name of the capital? Will the BBC know?

Odd; just this morning I received an email telling me that I've won the Bongo Bongo Bingo - it's more of a lottery apparently but they like the name.

Only need to stump up the release fee and I'll be minted

How do you Bongo Bongo land? What's the name of the capital? Will the BBC know?

More to the point, what is the size of the place? Compared to Wales, obv.

I presumed he meant this...

I think the fact that he defended his stance as 'the things really talk about in the Golf Club' points clearly to his target audience. Its probably safe to assume its one of the golf clubs that still doesn't admit women 🙄

According to some from the Labour Party on the BBC in the last few minutes its Africa or Ghana. Now call me a bit thick but the party with most lose against UKIP is the Tories, it's has even been reported that they need undermine in the voters minds as idiots. Why are Labour helping, does there vote have similar views on aid for sunglasses purchases.

totalshell - Member
just because its not politically polite doesnt mean its not a valid debate.

I think it's fair to say that it isn't a very "balanced & reasoned argument", which is the point the OP is making.

Are you a UKIP voter btw ?

For me the sad thing is that there is a reasonable debate to be had about how much, how efficiently and where we spend our foreign aid. There should always be about everything we spend the public purse on. But with an asshat like this getting himself involved with deliberately inflammatory and misleading language and it's almost impossible to have that debate and challenge the status quo without sounding like you are siding with this cock.

Depressingly I can hear my in-laws nodding in agreement and regurgitating his 'views' back to me when I next have the pleasure of their company.

just because its not politically polite doesnt mean its not a valid debate.

Indeed - if you have sympathy for his argument can you explain the merits of what he is saying? (Genuinely up for a debate, not an ad hominem hang the UKIP supporter witch-hunt)

[quote=saxabar ]just because its not politically polite doesn't mean its not a valid debate.
Indeed - if you have sympathy for his argument can you explain the merits of what he is saying? (Genuinely up for a debate, not an ad hominem hang the UKIP supporter witch-hunt)

From being the one that posted it, I think everything should be up for debate. Nothing should be off limits really - with that comes some responsibility that if you want to debate or take on these issues you should take some time to educate yourself on the subject.

He got a very easy ride on the Today program this morning - obv they thought he was an imbecile and that most people listening would too -
not convinced the 'give him enough rope' approach is the right one in general though for Godfrey Bloom.

I think this bloke has been laboratory developed just to be discussed on STW.

He got a very easy ride on the Today program this morning - obv they thought he was an imbecile and that most people listening would to -
not convinced the 'give him enough rope' approach is the right one in general though for Godfrey Bloom.

I thought that too given the hard time they normally give politicians of any persuasion. It was almost like he was so far off the page of logical and intelligent argument he was there for freak show entertainment rather than to be challenged. It was like listening to Down the Line!

From what he was saying on the radio this morning, its OK to give 'aid' to Bongo Bongo land, or anywhere else, if they then spend their 'aid' on British made tanks and guns. However, recently they've been buying French fighter jets instead. Which just isn't on!

He got a very easy ride on the Today program this morning

Aye, thought so too. Was shouting at Naughtie to go for him. 🙂

Which bit of this is particularly newsworthy? So a UKIP politician is given some rope and he hangs himself metaphorically.

It must be summer for this nonsense to make front pages and the Today program. Still I suppose the next round of the normal summer Euro crises is being held under wraps until Frau Merkel's election, so we need to find something else to fill the holiday pages/airwaves.

Binners,, do you reckon that any of the equally crazy UKIP female members say the same things in their ladies-only golf clubs? 😉

ladies-only golf clubs?

Have you seen the tournament trophies they give out?
[img] [/img]

Which bit of this is particularly newsworthy? So a UKIP politician is given some rope and he hangs himself metaphorically.

He came across as a complete arse this morning, i thought he may tone down his views just a little but in he actually toned them up!. i think the interviewer was so suprised by his stance that he didn't know where to go. Humf would have given him a harder time i reckon. the problem is of course people will start to agree with him if there is no counter to his argument and for that the BBC should be ashamed.

Mike, I was joking! The beauty of free speech is that fools are given the opportunity to condemn themselves out of their own mouths. This guy is doing it in spades. But why the surprise and is it really headline news? Sadly IMO, the people who elected him probably knew his views!!!

That is quite some trophy and did she know what she was doing with that photo opp Flashy?

Perhaps the poor UKIP chap was incensed by Berlusconi, and actually wanted to stop aid going to Bunga Bunga land, where Flashy's golf tournament is apparently held.

Did you lot miss this bit?

"Godfrey Bloom said his comments would "probably double my vote in the [b]north of England[/b]""

What [i]is[/i] he saying about northerners?

We are all amused by idiots and can see past this twerp to the point he was failing to make. He did well on the BBC this morning considering.

Do they drink Um Bongo in Bongobongo land, or do the just drink it in the Congo?

What I find most disappointing in this is what I presume is the willful nonrecognition of what public aid is. Yes, there may be some "generosity" involved but it is also a cheaper and more productive means of promoting non-warring values, stability and democratic values (some call it soft power and a way of reducing military spending). All politicians know this, unless Bloom really is a ****less, dim-witted, ***king misleading moron.

I'd say that's a heart-warningly generous way of looking at it. It's mostly just an instrument for achieving our strategic objectives ('resource security' etc), which may or may not have the added bonus of promoting democratic values.

"Godfrey Bloom said his comments would "probably double my vote in the north of England""

What is he saying about northerners?

At the last election 2 people in the north of England voted UKIP. Since then Beryll and Tom have retired and relocated from Sussex to North Yorkshire, and in doing so doubled the UKIP voter base in the north

Loved his man of the people line and reasoning on Radio 4 this morning and yes he got an easy ride but I think because the interviewer was stuggling not to laugh or just say WTF to him.

How is that posh folk like him and farage manage to constantly play this speaking for the ordinary man [ they always say man as they are not PC ****wits] whilst being as posh as posh can be and without any hint of irony., the UKIP man of the people routine is a ridiculous lie.

FWIW his accent did not sound very Yorkshire either and I doubt he woul dwant johnny foreigner speaking for him 😉

Bloom was born in London and educated at St Olave's Grammar School.[2]

His father was a Squadron Leader fighter pilot during the Second World War and his mother a WAAF. The second child of three, he has two sisters.[citation needed]

Bloom worked as a financial economist.[1][3] In his last position, he worked as the director of the investment company TBO in which he is still a major shareholder.[4]

He seemed to delight in the fact he would annoy guardian reading BBC folk- WOW trolling Politicians its a new low even for that shower of shits

with that comes some responsibility that if you want to debate or take on these issues you should take some time to educate yourself on the subject.

What is he saying about northerners?

I agree the role of aid should be freely discussed and using language like this is not likely to lead to any serious debate of the subject. However their main goal is probably to keep making sure they get publicity, to appear more important and powerful than they really are, so perhaps job done.

Its interesting they cite media conspiracies whilst getting so much more coverage than the Green party

How is that posh folk like him and farage manage to constantly play this speaking for the ordinary man [ they always say man as they are not PC ****] whilst being as posh as posh can be and without any hint of irony., the UKIP man of the people routine is a ridiculous lie.

I'd say in his mind he is talking for the ordinary man simply because I'd suggest anyone who is not like him does not count as far as he is concerned. It's not that they are beneath contempt, he is just completely blind to their presence. The folk he meets at the golf club are the rightful UK populous as far as he is aware and everyone else is a dirty foreigner or a serf.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

ladies-only golf clubs?

Have you seen the tournament trophies they give out?

Ooh. Sorry, I think I just came.

The Daily Mash comes up trumps:

"We don't get any aid, says president of Bongobongoland"

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/we-dont-get-any-aid-says-president-of-bongobongoland-2013080777988

Wasn't he referring to the late, great sainted [url=

Feynman[/url]? I'd like to think of him in his new sunglasses, racing his Ferrari on open roads and explaining quantum electrodynamics.

Sounds like a good use of our money but I didn't realise the government could send money to the afterlife.

It's mostly just an instrument for achieving our strategic objectives ('resource security' etc), which may or may not have the added bonus of promoting democratic values.

Surely as cyclists we should all be agreeing with UKIP on this one.Why should we be giving money to these bongobongo muppets to splurge on RayBans when we all know Oakleys are far better.

I quite like the sound of bongo bongoland. I might emigrate 🙂

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But there are questions to be asked about foreign aid. Why is the UK borrowing money to give to ****stan when the ****stani govt has enough cash to spend it on nuclear weapons? If a govt chooses to buy weapons rather than education/healthcare/food why should we borrow money to fill the gap?

So the UK is borrowing money.........despite wanting to spending billions on the replacement for Trident nuclear weapons ???? I call that scandalous !!!!

It's a fair question. Try not to think of it as aid, but as either payment, compensation (for use of airbases for example) or as a means of achieving strategic interests for less cost.

@grum - I always try for the best in things!

Wasn't this the same guy who said firms shouldn't employ women, because they might get pregnant?

I back on topic, I'm sure there is an argument that there possibly needs to be more checking where aid money is going, making sure it reaches the people in need. I don't think dismissing 'most' aid as being misspent in 'Bongobongo Land' is possibly the most constructive way of making that argument. It could even be construed as being a weeny bit racist....

More to the point, what is the size of the place? Compared to Wales, obv.

I'd assumed they were one and the same place.

China pours billions in aid to "Bongobongo Land".

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/interactive/2013/apr/29/china-commits-billions-aid-africa-interactive ]China commits billions in aid to Africa as part of charm offensive[/url]

[i]
"In Liberia, China has put millions towards the installation of solar traffic lights in Monrovia and financed a malaria prevention centre. In Mozambique, China's projects include a National School for Visual Arts in Maputo. In Algeria, construction has begun on a multimillion dollar 1,400-seat opera house in the Ouled Fayet suburbs of western Algiers.

China has also sent thousands of doctors and teachers to work in Africa, welcomed many more students to learn in China or in Chinese language classes abroad and rolled out a continent-wide network of sports stadiums and concert halls."[/i]

Of course the difference is the UK government is just a bunch of bleeding heart do-gooders who deliberately spunk taxpayers hard earned money on ungrateful greedy foreigners as part of a Marxist inspired agenda, whilst the Chinese on the other hand do it because they are cunning, devious, and slightly yellowish in colour.

No UK government would take part in a "charm offensive", perish the thought.

Well Gorgeous George just made him look very foolish on R2 just now.

Wasn't this the same guy who said firms shouldn't employ women, because they might get pregnant?

Hmm, while I've never agreed with anyone from UKIP before I bet if you asked 100 people in the street whether they'd be happy with their (tax) money been spent on another country while we were borrowing money (consequently generating interest) to cover the cost of it - you'd probably only have a handful who'd think it was a good idea.

In fact, who here gives to charity while they still are increasing their debts - and is this really sensible?

well he does look incredibly virile and be fair who could resist

Indeed, my ovaries are practically popping like microwaved Butterkist at the mere sight of his photo!

*blorf*

TBH even I am tingling down their and I am straight

I bet if you asked 100 people in the street

It was 60 % supported the principle though there was debate on the amount FWIW

So the UK is borrowing money.........despite wanting to spending billions on the replacement for Trident nuclear weapons ???? I call that scandalous !!!!

Well whether the Trident replacement is needed is another argument. If it is then it gets paid for from the UK taxes and borrowing. Borrowing to finance essential UK spending - OK though ideally the budget should balance. Borrowing to give money to other countries who spend their own cash on nuclear weapons - foolish.

Well as I looked up the research when someone else claimed similar on the other thread on this all I will say is how much would you like to give bet me ?

Link?

Well whether the Trident replacement is needed is another argument. If it is then it gets paid for from the UK taxes and borrowing. Borrowing to finance essential UK spending - OK though ideally the budget should balance. Borrowing to give money to other countries who spend their own cash on nuclear weapons - foolish.

UK aid to India will cease in 2015 I think?

So that just leaves ****stan. Which despite its nuclear weapons isn't exactly stable and is probably in our interest for it to become stable. I think a small amount is sent to China as well.

Further to that, a good chunk of aid goes straight into UK business. Via the gonad.

But data compiled by the Guardian shows the vast majority of DfID's contracts are still going to companies based in the UK. Of nearly 120 major contracts and procurement agreements (together worth almost £750m) published on the government's contracts portal since January 2011, only nine include non-UK firms among the grantees. An Indian company, Kran Consulting, is the only firm from a developing country on the list to win a full contract.

To be honest, I don't think the comments from the Ukip geezer this morning have anything to do with whether UK foreign aid is a worthwhile investment or not.

Im off the opinion It's about appealing to the a section of the electorate that may easily be swung to voting for Ukip. Or reinforcing the support of those that already do. None of it struck me as a genuine attempt for debate. Just political points scoring of exactly the sort that Ukip frequently complain about being directed at themselves.

Seven in 10 people believe the UK spends too much on international aid,

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/most-think-uk-foreign-aid-budget-is-too-high.20407489

Link?

Its mixed though - folk tend to support it yet they tend to want it cut and overestimate what % we give [ 0.7% GDP] would be a fair one line assessment

upport for aid has often been
characterised as ‘broad but shallow’,
with Smillie (1999) describing it as
‘a mile wide and an inch deep’. In
September 2010, an opinion poll found
that a majority (62%) of respondents thought
it was morally right to support developing
countries, but a similar proportion thought aid
budgets should be cut to help reduce the fiscal
deficit (Henson and Lindstrom, 2011).

I am not claiming it has universal support or the support cannot be debated or even argued I am simply rejecting the only a handful support it aspect.

EDIT: As you note it is also highly dependent on the question asked and the economic climate

That link is poor in substantiating it claim and simply states them without any explanation - i tried to find the actual survey but their website is poor as well

Foreign aid is one of those subjects which people are notoriously misinformed about.

Teenage pregnancy, crime, job-seekers allowance, benefit fraud, and foreign aid, are all subjects which papers like the Daily Mail like to tell their readers the "shocking truth" about.

Only they don't.

Instead they deliberately mislead their readers and tell them a whole bunch of half truths, lies, and omissions.

As a consequence people express opinions on matters that they actually know very little about.

[url= http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3188/Perceptions-are-not-reality-the-top-10-we-get-wrong.aspx ] Perceptions are not reality[/url]

[b][i] 26% of people think foreign aid is one of the top 2-3 items government spends most money on, when it actually made up 1.1% of expenditure (£7.9bn) in the 2011/12 financial year. More people select this as a top item of expenditure than pensions (which cost nearly ten times as much, £74bn) and education in the UK (£51.5bn)[/i][/b]

And the situation is no different in the United States.

[url= http://www.interaction.org/document/american-public-overestimates-us-foreign-aid ]American Public Overestimates U.S. Foreign Aid[/url]

[b][i]Asked to estimate how much of the federal budget goes to foreign aid the median estimate is 25 percent. Asked how much they thought would be an "appropriate" percentage the median response is 10 percent. In fact just 1 percent of the federal budget goes to foreign aid. Even if one only includes the discretionary part of the federal budget, foreign aid represents only 2.6 percent.[/i][/b]

Of course people are going to express the opinion that foreign aid is excessive when they have been repeatedly mislead about the actual facts.

The US opinion poll shows how people can in fact believe that foreign aid should be at a higher level than it actually is in reality.

But hey, well done the right-wing gutter-press.......another triumph of ignorance over truth for them.

I'd kick his back doors in for a pie and a pint of mild..

I'd kick his back doors in for a pie and a pint of mild..

Assuming that's a sexual euphemism.

I'd kick your back doors in for a pie and a pint of mild..and some Scampi Fries to clinch it.

awwww thanks mate... I'm all embarrassed now, it's a long time since I've been romanced.. 😳

😀

To b fair Harrods and most of them fancy shops in that there Londinium would have gone teets up and becom tanning salons and crap tat shops if we hadn't ring fenced foreign aid.

He had an interesting interview on Channel 4 tonight, took out his ear piece in the end, played the 'I'm 63 we say this sort of thing card' and asked what the fuss was about, which was of course the fact Farage had some italian racist thrown out for using exactly the same term.

So a bit silly, a bit of an ego maniac refusing to back down, but at the end of the day another sad example of free speech eroded in pc correct political witch hunting. So he said bongo bongo land who exactly is that offending?

I'm offended that we are borrowing so much money to waste on this and any number of other subjects, I can't say I'm particularly offended by the bongo bongo quote, just think he's a bit stupid, a shame it's clouding the debate.

So he said bongo bongo land who exactly is that offending?

Somewhere way way above your head is the point.

There is a Daily Mash article that might help.

Care to read it to me?

Only if you wear a dress and sit on my knee

So he said bongo bongo land who exactly is that offending?

A person using the term "Bongo Bongo Land" does not offend me. I am not a racist or an idiot. The guy who this discussion has a valid point, but he just put it across like the inbred that he is. That's what happens when close family members have kids with each other.

As bongo bongo land does not really exist we can only assume he was referring to a country or countries where the predominant skin colour is black and therefore any discussion about said country by anyone outside of the leftist school of thought must be immediateley condemned as a racist, in fact anyone who is not of the left is a racist, its a fact, they are also idiots and thats a fact as well!

[I]26% of people think foreign aid is one of the top 2-3 items government spends most money on, when it actually made up 1.1% of expenditure (£7.9bn) in the 2011/12 financial year.[/I]

So about £250 per taxpayer?

Now go ask everyone whether they'd like to knock £250 off their income tax next year.

And the 'fact' that the money is spent on British industry is a red herring, as that will just mean another transfer of cash through to shareholders and Execs.

As bongo bongo land does not really exist we can only assume he was referring to a country or countries where the predominant skin colour is black

and therefore any discussion about said country by anyone outside of the leftist school of thought must be immediateley condemned as a racist, in fact anyone who is not of the left is a racist, its a fact, they are also idiots and thats a fact as well!

Why not just defend it's use? Farage did not want to, is he part of the left as well now ?
An Attack on the left because of the language used by the man on the right is frankly laughable and says more about you than them.
You are the Daily Mail and I demand my cure for cancer

Now go ask everyone whether they'd like to knock £250 off their income tax next year.

Why? we have studies about what we think about foreign aid - we dont need to discuss thought experiments nearly related to the topic when we have actual data we could discuss.

I am naive in assuming that the majority of our foreign aid goes to help those less fortunate than us? Radio 4 states that the bulk of aid sent to ****stan helps kids go to school rather than buying F15's as claimed.

Why not just defend it's use? Farage did not want to, is he part of the left as well now ?
An Attack on the left because of the language used by the man on the right is frankly laughable and says more about you than them.
You are the Daily Mail and I demand my cure for cancer

I am not defending its use, what makes you think that unless i have upset your leftist sentiment, you are the gnurdia and i claim my bus pass 😆