Forum menu
massive reduction in crime
Does it - or does it just limit what might happen in the UK?
What I don't understand about this possible sort of progressive drug legislation - surely it does absolutely nothing for the people living in hell - like they are currently in Mexico with the latest wave of violence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lp7xwql4o
So yeah try to fix stuff here - still massive problems at the origin.
It doesn't remove the criminal element and the violence other than possibly at the last step.
yeah this worries me
a dead heat between labour & greens is the most likely scenario for reform sleazing their way in
What I don't understand about this possible sort of progressive drug legislation - surely it does absolutely nothing for the people living in hell - like they are currently in Mexico with the latest wave of violence.
Thats an issue with prohibition as well. Its making the drugs trade illegal that causes all these issues. Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. the roots of prohibition are in US racism.
Evidence fromn countries with sensible drug laws shows that consumption particularly of imported class A drugs drops as people who want to get high have access to legal drugs. It also frees up police resources
Evidence based practice, harm reduction works
the war on drugs has been lost
It doesn't remove the criminal element and the violence other than possibly at the last step.
It depends on the drug. Legalisation and regulation of production and sales can reduce demand for drugs from damaged countries. Especially where synthetic alternatives are made available. Of course that may well increase poverty in production countries as a side effect. Of course just decriminalising personal possession does not nothing for the problems upstream.
Decriminalisation of possession alone is probably the worst of all worlds. Legalisation with extremely closely monitored production is the better idea for most substances. The UK has licensed producers of heroin/opiates and cannabis already.
the roots of prohibition are in US racism.
This is an Americentric view and one that doesn't match history. The Pharmacy Act 1868 in England & Wales on opium and opiates was years before the US started passing similar legislation, and of course the Islamic states generally had prohibitions on all intoxicants (at least for Muslims).
Prohibition of cannabis was based on US reacism then 🙂 and prohibition of other drugs followed that
Opiates were still available in the UK legally well after that date - most drugs not made illegal until the 60s
The main driver of damage both to individuals and countries is prohibition.
Legalisation with extremely closely monitored production is the better idea for most substances.
And administration. There are plenty of drugs that people shouldn’t be able to carry or use in the community.
And administration. There are plenty of drugs that people shouldn’t be able to carry or use in the community.
edit : there are other threads to discuss drug policy
the war on drugs has been lost
Does anyone that could stop it really want to see it dealt with?
I'm not so sure.
a dead heat between labour & greens is the most likely scenario for reform sleazing their way in
Well it's hard to square this view.
Had Labour done a better job at being both competent and progressive - there wouldn't be a clear gap to challenge this position as the lefties would now be voting for Labour.
This will be repeated at a general election too. The plan should have been Labour go after and fix the things they claimed they would in the run up to 2024 - and instead became a neoliberal fuelled cess-pit driving themselves and Reform right-wards.
It was in their power to take the Green vote by offering the decent stuff that the Green party is offering - but in reality probably too late and they screwed up.
Labour would prefer a Reform outcome. Anything but the left - despite what they say.
(Or they could have had Burnham to most likely improve their chances.)
The current situation is clearly their doing.
Or they could have had Burnham to most likely improve their chances
You really think another weathervane apparatchik would have made that much differnce? I have a bridge to sell you
"Likely improve their chances"
No but it's a degree of better.
I'm not a Burnham fan at all but he would score some points. Given Starmer's popularity - a better hair cut would be a good choice.
Long term - much bigger problems of course.
Which bridge? Millau Viaduct? I will take it
You really think another weathervane apparatchik would have made that much differnce?
In short, Yes. The folks I spoke to, it would've made a difference, and that's pretty normal. In all the years I've been canvassing, name recognition is about the single biggest positive factor in elections, not policies or party or polls or whatever's going on nationally. it's almost a guarantee of votes.
Would've caused massive issues, and the local Labour party didn't want him, but we wouldn't be here if Burnham was standing fo'shure
This vid is very insightful.. In fact his whole channel is worth a watch...
Bear in mind this vid is a fair few months old now though, for context.
I don't really care who wins the by-election as long as it's not reform or the tories... So good luck to the greens I guess.
Sniped vid
Sorry, I just realised I posted a short clip rather than the whole vid...
Seriously, please give this a watch, he makes so much sense...
So byelection day
What are peoples best guesses?- Im going for Reform victory by more than expected and a high turnout for a byelection- why, because I think Reform are v good at turning out voters that dont normally bother and hard to poll
Sadly believe that it will take a Reform government before people realise just how disatrous they will be.
would love to be proved wrong and Id be happy with any party winning other than Reform
My money is on the Greens by a narrow margin.
This will be repeated at a general election too. The plan should have been Labour go after and fix the things they claimed they would in the run up to 2024 - and instead became a neoliberal fuelled cess-pit driving themselves and Reform right-wards.
What do you mean "became"? The leadership is no different to what it was before they were elected and indeed no different to when it was just a movement trying to oust Corbyn.
One of my mates lives in the constituency and says it's been absolutely insane. Apparently you can't go anywhere without being accosted by either a mob of canvassers or a TV crew. This has come as something of a novelty in somewhere that's never even registered on the radar of any political party as it's just been a given it'll go labour, as always.
My only prediction is that it's going to be crazy close, probably go to a recount and the winning margin may be in single figures. I'm living in hope that its the Greens, because the thought of that smug, grinning frog-faced **** looking so pleased with himself, with Manchester as a backdrop, is just to much for me to cope with.
If that happens then it'll be entirely the fault of a brain-dead Labour Party, firstly for blocking Andy, who'd have walked it and then concentrating their resources on fighting the Greens. I just despair about just how utterly clueless and self-defeating the party leadership is. Their depth of their self-destructive stupidity seems to be bottomless
its easy in safe constituencies like mine.
There's no such thing as a safe constituency any more, as this by-election is proving
This place has been labour since the dawn of time. They'll be nowhere today. Not even in it
Speaking of odds, looks like the Greens are heavy favourites.
I'm not sure if the opinion polls reflect that level of certainty but at least it's something...
What are peoples best guesses?
Greens by a wafer thin margin. Hate to say it but; Reform 2nd and then Labour. all separated by a few hundred votes. having said that, i think it's so close, that all 3 could be jumbled up in any order.
Levenshulme is the new Chorlton, for better or worse, so support for the Greens is massive. Other parts of the constituency are pretty far removed from the world of organic, fair-trade quinoa and are more inclined to hang flags from lamp-posts.
Its all going to be about who's best at getting people out to vote
Apparently you can't go anywhere without being accosted by either a mob of canvassers
Reports of me running across the road to press a labour leaflet into the window of a passing car are greatly exaggerated...They blew out of my hand and I was scrabbling around on the pavement trying to pick them up.
Your Honour
binners. my seat is pretty safe snp with labour second and no one else close
... for now.....
I remember saying there would never be another Westminster party leader standing in a Scottish seat since there were no seats safe enough for leader to take a risk on (just ask Jo "I am a candidate for Prime Minister" Swinson).
Now it looks like no seat can really be considered safe enough for a party leader which could lead to some interesting situations in the future.
Other parts of the constituency are pretty far removed from the world of organic, fair-trade quinoa
FFS man do you actually believe your hippy vegan charicature of anyone voting green? I know it's a fun joke, but the reality is that most green voters are ex-labour loyalists who were told to f-off by Keir Starmer. Maybe that explains why the greens have a significant chance of beating Labour? If Labour get fewer votes than the greens then who is splitting the left vote?
Polanski makes my skin crawl.
What do you not like about him? Most people think he's a bit of fresh air, especially compared to the other leaders out there.
but the reality is that most green voters are ex-labour loyalists who were told to f-off by Keir Starmer.
OK, so I only canvassed in the Denton wards, and the quinoa fans are over there in Gorton, but I went with a local member on a trad door to door on the list. Most folks I spoke with aren't voting Green, they're either Reform or "If Burnham was standing Labour". Lots of folks were "Reform to give labour a kick up the arse" types. But how they do in voting booth all by themselves is anyone's guess.
Other folks I spoke with last weekend were saying that Gorton (by far the biggest wards in the seat) it was much more Green/Labour split, and those are folks either working or studying at Uni - so are totally the world of fair trade Quinoa - i know some of them personally. Saw my mate Ingrid out canvassing for the Greens...
Polanski makes my skin crawl.
What do you not like about him? Most people think he's a bit of fresh air, especially compared to the other leaders out there.
hard to put my finger on it but he seems really creepy in a nasty way. but as he is an England only politician i haven't looked closely.
FFS man do you actually believe your hippy vegan charicature of anyone voting green?
Well, I lived in Chorlton for long enough.... 😛
so I only canvassed in the Denton wards
There's your answer to them being mostly pro-reform. Denton is the white-supremacist stronghold (along with Harpurhey and Blackley) of the Manchester conurbation. Over in Levenshulme where I used to live for 20 years it's an even split between the ****stani muslim community who used to be solidly labour until Starmer supported the Gaza genocide, and left leaning professional types like myself, many of whom used to vote Lib Dem (we always had a Lib Dem councillor in Levenshulme). If the greens are doing well then I reckon they're picking up lots of votes from ex Lib Dem voters, the ****stanis, and pissed off lefties who used to vote Labour.
FFS are we not allowed to use the word P-a-k-i-stani? How bloody ridiculous. What other demonyms are we not allowed to use? The French? The Germans?
Ahem...
Actually I'll correct myself. Given all the recent protests the city centre now holds the honour of the place where white supremacists like to hang out.
Polanski makes my skin crawl.
I get Farage and a boat-load of Reformers/Tories but skin crawl - Polanski ... ?
Seems a straightfoward decent person that can articulate a strong point of view for the many that are suffering - in a radical smart modern language.
He couldn't be more different to a greasy, creepy elitist.
Really we should be appalled at Labour creating the havoc in G&D - by virtue of the daft Labour MP (minister ahem) that was the catalyst for all of this.
Labour really have been up to no good during this campaign.
https://fullfact.org/politics/labour-opinium-bar-chart/
Ooh and apparently creating a phoney tactical voting org.
(God that huff post site is abysmal these days.)
Also Mike Tapp is such a class act. Many Labour MPs dining out on a daft fear-mongering interpretation of Green's potential drug policy.
They literally are junior Reform with the way they do things.
https://twitter.com/MikeTappTweets/status/2026674492903182356?s=20
That "Tatical Voting" org should be in change of the country - if they can design a flyer, get it printed & through your letterbox within 24hrs of that information coming to light it shows ability above & beyond.
Sadly this highlights again why first past the post is a terrible system. Given that most voters don't want Reform, they could win even tho the majority don't want them.
Also Mike Tapp is such a class act. Many Labour MPs dining out on a daft fear-mongering interpretation of Green's potential drug policy.
Just watched that Mike Tapp legalize GHB video - is he on drugs?
...and in other news
From odds checker:
Who's Favourite to win the Gorton & Denton by-election?
In the betting, the Green Party are 4/9 favourites with BetVictor, implying around a 69% chance of victory.
In the last seven days Green party have received 43% of total bets to win.
Reform UK are 18/5 with AKBets (approximately a 22% implied probability), a price that suggests bookmakers believe a breakthrough is possible if Labour and the Greens split the left-of-centre vote.
They have taken 36% of total bets in the last seven days.
Meanwhile, Labour Party sit at 17/2 (around 10%), a remarkable drift for a party that won comfortably here just 18 months ago, underlining how dramatically the political mood – and market expectations – have shifted in a short space of time.
They have recieved 15% of total bets.
I think youll find none of the parties have covered themselves in glory with their campaign literature https://bsky.app/profile/liburghal.bsky.social/post/3mfqrlurrcs23
This guy is doing the lords work rating all the (dis)honest political leafleting hes had through the door
https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mfprdcbb6k2g
Polanski makes my skin crawl.
I get Farage and a boat-load of Reformers/Tories but skin crawl - Polanski ... ?
Seems a straightfoward decent person that can articulate a strong point of view for the many that are suffering - in a radical smart modern language.
He couldn't be more different to a greasy, creepy elitist.
He just seems creepy to me. I don't trust him. something off about him. Its a very superficial impression for sure
Its a very superficial impression for sure
is it the boob whispering?
tbh all politicians give me the ick to varying degrees, maybe its something about the synthetic nature of it all- its a game we know theyre playing, they know we know and they just carry on, liekwise we get upset if they dont play the game!