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you STILL get complaints.
Her perspective was that she'd been living there all her life, had kids and so on and in all that time, her GP was this crappy converted house, that they'd complained about for ages, and nothing ever happened, they were ignored. Then all a sudden two things happen: Mass (to her) immigration and a new health centre going up, staffed by - migrants.
Actually she loved the new health centre, and got on with the reception staff, but it was the speed of change she found difficult to comprehend and adjust to. Her world had changed overnight, and most of that change was immigration.
Are you doing this on purpose?
Replying to nickc's anecdotes about people who don't like immigrants in an unserious way? Yes.
Are you doing this on purpose?
Replying to nickc's anitcdotes about people who don't like immigrants in an unserious way? Yes.
Nah, being disingenuous. I thought better of you, but clearly an error on my part.
He could easily be describing my mum, or most older people I know. You have to laugh and point out that nothing will really stop them being suspicious of incomers... it's baked in...
However much people say "it's because of failing public services" (which is a real problem in the UK) the truth is that even if everything was running smoothly, and all the services these older folk need to use was perfectly delivered, they would still be suspicious of immigrants. Even where services are improved, the Daily Mail style complaining about immigration will never end.
He could easily be describing my mum, or most older people I know. You have to laugh and point out that nothing will really stop them being suspicious of incomers... it's baked in...
So what about the people where it's not 'baked in'?
People who have genuinely suffered at the hands of incomers as you put it. Are they racist? Do their views not count?
Seems the only views that count are very one-sided, and that may be why we're at the present juncture of far right/hard right parties leading the opposing side of the conversation.
as a country "we're asking" them to embrace and include and accept people with who they share no experiences, no cultural ties
I don’t see that we’re “asking” any such thing, other than to be human.
So what about the people where it's not 'baked in'?
People who have genuinely suffered at the hands of incomers as you put it. Are they racist? Do their views not count?
You’d have to give some examples of where that’s genuinely happened.
Plenty in the press I should have thought .Theft, violence,drug dealing and rape for starters Hundreds of examples of.
Adding to the small army of indigenous criminals of course.
I don’t see that we’re “asking” any such thing, other than to be human.
I think the 'human' response is Staus Quo bias. Expecting multiculturalism to happen spontaneously is a fantasy. I think its the work of decades of support and money and hard work. If Govts aren't prepared to put the work in the they shouldn't be surprised if the outcome is sectarianism.
Plenty in the press I should have thought .Theft, violence,drug dealing and rape for starters Hundreds of examples of.
I wasn’t aware that folk did that stuff because they are “incomers”.
immigrants tend to wash up in the parts of the country that are cheap to live
Not quite, old fruit. Immigrants disproportionately come to the most expensive part of the UK to live: London and the South East. London has 10% of the UK population and 33% of all immigrants to the UK. 42% of London residents are immigrants. 46% of all immigrants to the UK live in London and the Southeast.
You don't tend to move to the places where the work isn't...
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/where-do-migrants-live-in-the-uk/
If Govts aren't prepared to put the work in the they shouldn't be surprised if the outcome is sectarianism.
You seem to have the opposite definition of multiculturism than the one I understand. Multiculturism encourages sectarianism by enabling closed insular communities and discouraging integration with others outside those communities. Go into any inner-city to see the evidence. Manchester is a classic example where the city is divided into very well defined and distinct areas which barely engage with each other aside from a few minor examples around the edges. Then when some areas start expanding or are more economically prosperous than others you get the inevitable sectarian conflict which we all want to avoid.
Manchester is a great example... there is a Mancunian culture that is both distinct from and yet an important part of English culture, which is part of British culture. Even before you get down to catholic areas, jewish areas, etc being part of what makes Manchester great... the simple acceptance that Manchester is different but shares much with Bristol, Newport, Glasgow, wherever is a reminder that we all have many cultures, that we all share some but not all culture with our immediate neighbours, and people from parts of the UK we may never visit. I'll wager I share as much if not more culture with a mutton eating agnostic fan of 90s Manchester music who was born to Muslim parents than I do with a vegan born again Christian who's obsessed with football and Princess Diana who traces their roots back to William de Percy. Beware the culture wars.
When a politician starts to tell you that "we" are in danger from "them"... be prepared for them to switch you into the "them" camp if it serves their purposes.
If Govts aren't prepared to put the work in the they shouldn't be surprised if the outcome is sectarianism.
You seem to have the opposite definition of multiculturism than the one I understand. Multiculturism encourages sectarianism by enabling closed insular communities and discouraging integration with others outside those communities. Go into any inner-city to see the evidence. Manchester is a classic example where the city is divided into very well defined and distinct areas which barely engage with each other aside from a few minor examples around the edges. Then when some areas start expanding or are more economically prosperous than others you get the inevitable sectarian conflict which we all want to avoid.
I'd argue that what you are describing is the complete opposite of multiculturalism. Sounds like the version described by Brian Barry in his works around 2001.
Yes, communities have been segregated, voluntarily or not, on a geographic basis, especially as when new waves of immigrants have arrived and sought familiar people or family connections. That's happened with Jews, Ukrainians, Italians, African, Caribbean, farveastern and south Asian communities.
Butbin my 50+ years living around the UK, those groups have increasingly moved to "white British" communities, been accepted and added to the multicultural mix, their previous communities becoming home to the next group entering the country.
My local town is an ex mining and steel town. We moved here 25 years ago. There was a couple of Indian and Chinese restaurants, but no other non-white families. Channel 4 made documentaties about the BNP here. A black cyclist in a local crit race got monkey chants. Now we've had Eastern Europeans, South Asians and black communities move to the area. People get along, learn their neighbours backgrounds, you see kids of all ethnic backgrounds playing at school together, doing sports or other activities together. A genuine generational change.
That's my understanding of multiculturalism. It's not perfect, still lots to improve, blinkered idiots of all backgrounds like to spread hate and fear for their own ends. But it is usually economic rather than cultural backgrounds that are the dividing lines now, socially and geographically.
Plenty in the press I should have thought .Theft, violence,drug dealing and rape for starters Hundreds of examples of.
IIRC lower % of offenders than native populations. Just promoted more in the press propaganda organs
IIRC lower % of offenders than native populations. Just promoted more in the press propaganda organs
Absolutely this - big white grooming gamg was convicted in the north-east a few weeks ago, the usual suspects and the BBC focused on the conviction of an immigrant for similar offences.
BBC did a big report yesterday about girls being groomed and abused by drug/criminal gangs, focusing in white girls abused by Asian men. Stay with the report long enough till they speak to the expert on the subject, who stated that victims and abusers can be from any and all cultures.
Plenty in the press I should have thought .Theft, violence,drug dealing and rape for starters Hundreds of examples of.
Plenty in the history books - look up the British Empire.
anyway
huge week for the government & starmer , gorton by election looks to be a 3 way split from polling Lab/Grn/Ref, which favours Reform IMO as they're usually hard to poll.
Their candidate is an absolute clown of a man, tragic that he's got such a good chance of winning.
whats amazing is that the limited polling has Labour in any sort of contention!
and at the same time we might get the first dump of government documents about Mandlesons appointment, expect the press to go into a frenzy at just the wrong time for the by-election from starmers point of view- even if its a huge nothingburger
tho my suspicion is that it will enrage Trump if their discussing sending mandleson because they wanted someone as corrupt as Trump for the role
other wildcard is Mandy getting arrested this week which would do Labour no favours in by-election
assuming of course that everyones not distracted by a war in Iran (very good to see starmer standing up to trump about using our airbases for this)
Yes it's close for Gorton and Denton.
Latest polling favours Green.
I think Hannah will do it. I really hope she does. It's a pretty pivotal moment for where we are.
Bookies have Green ahead too.
I'm leaning positive on this.
Their candidate is an absolute clown of a man, tragic that he's got such a good chance of winning.
I'd be totally surprised if he actually cuts through to the working class. He's the exact opposite of what Reform are supposed to be selling to the people that they need to vote for them. (Elite academic gone awry!)
This is such an interesting campaign for tonnes of reasons.
Green campaigning has been constant. They know the fight on their hands.
https://twitter.com/i/status/2025560917627310581
I don't think I've ever seen such a sloppy, disingenuous and sexually manipulative messed up 'anti' campaign as this Labour film.
What a horrible message absolutely loaded up with the most dreadful design I've ever seen.
Who ... the hell is this garbage meant to appeal to?
Was AI drunk that day?
It’s hard to believe that’s real, did they get the work experience kid to make it?
So Starmer has vistied Gorton & Denton
thats a bold move for a leader with very low popularity rating in a tightly fought 3-way byelection!, either Labour have some very favourable data or he's just thinking 'fk it Ill give anything a go'
Yeah as predicted https://bsky.app/profile/cjmckeon.bsky.social/post/3mfk5bjmth223
So Starmer has vistied Gorton & Denton
I don’t think him being there helps them, but then not going would paint him as a coward in retreat.
As an aside… having been all snarky and self absorbed immediately after being refused special treatment to allow him to stand to be a Labour MP while still being mayor, Burnham has since properly put the effort and good word in for Stogia. He’s done far more than Starmer to support her since she was selected. Credit where credit due.
Oh, another aside, a friend of mine has been canvassing for the Greens. While the PR he’s been part of has been very “celebrating the Green Surge”, in some areas Reform support is overwhelming and depressing. He’s not positive at all. Reform winning is looking far more likely than media commentary (and voting history) suggests.
So Starmer has vistied Gorton & Denton
Yes I'm surprised at that - I guess there is a lot riding on it.
Reform winning is looking far more likely than media commentary (and voting history) suggests.
Greens still ahead on the bookies. I think the Greens are absolutely not being complacent and presenting a grim picture to get people to vote.
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/2025932451327934717?s=20
yeah i have a terrible feeling we will wake up with matt Goodwin as an MP on Friday
https://twitter.com/OprosUK/status/2025661386928411042?s=20
There's some hope for you then.
Knackers close though. As long as Zia Yusif keeps saying stupid things I'm happy.
I hope that the "anything but reform" vote is a big factor.
Mandelson arrested!
Got to laugh at the arrogance of Labour calling the election as Reform v Labour. I mean literally we're only here because of how terrible they are in general performance - and the previous Labour MP's stupid Whats-app messages. And they might have stood a chance with Burnham who got shot in the foot.
Gwynne had said he hoped a 72-year-old woman "would soon be dead after she wrote to her local councillor about bin collections."
Total moron. (Starmer did sack him though.)
Literally all of their own making.
This vid is very insightful.. In fact his whole channel is worth a watch...
Bear in mind this vid is a fair few months old now though, for context.
I don't really care who wins the by-election as long as it's not reform or the tories... So good luck to the greens I guess.
Is it:
a - Racists
b - Thick racists
c - Nazi scum
d - The orange shit gibbon (I know funny name and swears. Don't let the missus find out. I have to swear into a towel when nobodies around at home and I don't fancy being hauled over the coals, in front of the kids, at the performance management meeting)
e - Russian bots
f - All of the above and then some from the safety of the internet where my face won't get punched in.
G&D is obviously a disaster for Labour, but it is also stunning that the Tories - who "ought" to be the second or third party at worst - is polling at only 5%.
Starmer mentioned the greens drug policy again on his visit to Gorton
Im thinking they must have some polling/focus group stuff on that being a wedge issue for taking on the greens, specifically i think they are targeting small c conservative Muslim voters they alienated on gaza, of which they're after quite a few in the constituency and i think that kooky video was targeted at the by election.
I think going forward that you'll see more attacks on the greens on this, their drugs policy is very different from others they've also got some unpopular policies on natural birth, NATO and other issues that could be exploited, especially when targeting specific voter blocks
Thing is the greens drug policy will be popular in many ways to many folk as its eminently more sensible than " drugs baaaaaad, just say no" A large % of young folk ( and a % of all folk) will be in favour of a sensible drug policy
but it is also stunning that the Tories - who "ought" to be the second or third party at worst - is polling at only 5%.
The whole area has historically been a drought for the Tories, there have been Tory Councillors but the last one was in the 90's. I think the closet recently was a Lib Dem in the next door constituency - Withington who voted for John Leech in 2005 (who was a local, and 'alright bloke' , apparently) his claim to fame is that he designed the Turing law that eventually pardoned him.
I think the closet recently was a Lib Dem in the next door constituency - Withington who voted for John Leech in 2005 (who was a local, and 'alright bloke' , apparently) his
That was the constituency I lived in at the time. It was very much an anti-New Labour/Blair protest vote about the Iraq war from the good folk of the Peoples Republic of Chorlton
Thing is the greens drug policy will be popular in many ways to many folk
I dunno, the constituency is split between folks for whom drugs is a constant struggle- the Denton wards, there's some pretty large areas that have some high crime stats driven by the drug trade, I know a PM of one of the surgeries in that part of the world, and they have to be careful which pts. are in the waiting room at the same time due to turf wars. And there's a really high proportion of Muslim voters, I don't think they'd be particularly keen on it. Having said that; Gorton is also home to students and teaching staff at the Uni, but I'd imagine a good percentage of those folks are already potentially switching their vote away from Labour anyway. I think Starmer coming up and telling them off for their drug habit isn't going to change their minds any time soon.
Canvassing has been interesting; There's a bunch of hesitancy about Labour fo'shure, but at the same time, folks I've spoken to aren't always convinced by the Green candidate. The Reform chancer gets very short shrift on the pavement and door step at least.
To be fair, he was a good constituency MP
But it’s right that the Tory’s are an endangered species in these central Manchester constituencies. They barely even bother campaigning in a lot of them
At the last mayoral election, the Tory candidate resigned a couple of weeks beforehand as he was getting zero support from central office, who know a lost cause when they see one. Andy Burnham got 67% of the vote
STEP GOVERNMENT NO!
https://metro.co.uk/2026/02/24/three-horrific-types-porn-made-illegal-uk-27066635/
At this point it can only be a matter of time until the yanks' "oi have you got ur w***ing loicense m8" memes come true.
Most of that looks to be about closing loopholes people can use to create porn without the subjects' consent.
I dunno, the constituency is split between folks for whom drugs is a constant struggle- the Denton wards, there's some pretty large areas that have some high crime stats driven by the drug trade,
Which is driven by prohibition not by the drugs. thats one of the key points of a sensible drug policy - massive reduction in crime