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UK Government Thread

 rone
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How many more huge rightwing victories and lurches to the right do we think it will be before the electorate thinks "no, we really need to give socialism a chance"?

Not having Neoliberalism as the dominant ideology doesn't mean we swing straight to socialism across the board.

But cherry picking putting failed utilities in public ownership is a no-brainer for a start (and keeping them there.)

That would be popular.

 

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 5:08 pm
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I don't think he personally was, but that's the way it was perceived by the electorate

Corbyn absolutely caved in to his shadow Brexit secretary's, Keir Starmer, demands to do everything possible to reverse the result of the 2016 EU referendum, I am stunned that people appear to have such short memories. 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-05/johnson-writes-to-corbyn-over-plan-to-fiddle-second-brexit-referendum

"Your policy is to cancel the result of the last referendum and to hold another one"

And one heavily weighted in favour of Remain by including 2 million EU citizens who don't even have a legal right to vote in Westminster elections.

Voters quite rightly concluded in the 2019 general election that Labour under Corbyn was doing everything possible to stop Brexit.


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 5:24 pm
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Posted by: ernielynch

 

Voters quite rightly concluded in the 2019 general election that Labour under Corbyn was doing everything possible to stop Brexit.

 

Apart from his radio silence through the whole run up and then the 3 line whipping his MP's to vote for it.  🧐 

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 5:48 pm
 dazh
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Corbyn absolutely caved in to his shadow Brexit secretary's, Keir Starmer

Oh absolutely he caved in, but my suspicion is that he always knew he was going to lose the election so he was happy to adopt it as it would then give him and the left a good excuse for losing. That would seem to be the case given McDonnell's 'it was brexit' interview soon after the exit poll was announced. Along with the anti-semitism nonsense the main difference between 2017 and 2019 is that he lost his authenticity and reputation for sticking to his principles.

Anyway, I think most of us agree that the UK electorate haven't rejected left wing policies. In fact given Trump and Farage's white supremacism fanaticism I think left wing policies will be more popular than ever come the next election. 

*Well, all apart from the centrist usual suspects who are strangely silent at the moment.


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 5:49 pm
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But who are the centrists these days?

How many more huge rightwing victories and lurches to the right do we think it will be before the electorate thinks "no, we really need to give socialism a chance"?

I would be happy with a gentle swing towards social democracy.


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 5:57 pm
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Posted by: slowoldman

But who are the centrists these days?

 

Depends how you define centrist I guess... I'd define it as anyone who is measured, moderate, balanced and rejects the extremism from the far left and far right...

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 6:00 pm
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double post

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 6:39 pm
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does anyone know how many additonal freeze/starve to death pensioners were lost during winter 24/25?


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 6:45 pm
 dazh
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You know when people say Starmer isn’t a very good politician.. 🙄

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1919789916172505429?s=46&t=LtLH_brmYFWrcPalxgEeWA


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 6:45 pm
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Posted by: dazh

You know when people say Starmer isn’t a very good politician..

So increased period for the seconded employees? Always handed when offshoring UK roles to be able to bring the replacements over, relatively, cheaply. 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 7:13 pm
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Posted by: soobalias

does anyone know how many additonal freeze/starve to death pensioners were lost during winter 24/25?

ONS will have the death figures to compare, not sure when they will be publicly available 

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 7:13 pm
 AD
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Isn't the NI 'deal' exactly what is in place with EU and US???? Or have I misremembered? 

It wouldn't be like 'honest' Bob to try to stir the pot...


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 7:15 pm
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Apart from his radio silence through the whole run up and then the 3 line whipping his MP's to vote for it. 🧐 

Ah, that will explain why Labour received 40% of the vote in the 2017 general election which then fell to 32% of the vote in the 2019 general election.

Labour were far more popular with voters when Corbyn promised to respect the referendum result than when, under Sir Keir Starmer's influence, he committed Labour to holding a second referendum in an attempt to abandon Brexit.


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 7:28 pm
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Bit different with India's huge population and already one of the go to countries for outsourcing in its various forms.

Looking forward to further wage suppression of us native knowledge worker professionals.


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 7:31 pm
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Posted by: bikesandboots

Bit different with India's huge population and already one of the go to countries for outsourcing in its various forms.

Its already available as the Global Business Mobility scheme. A handy option for offshoring work since could bring workers over to train up at cut prices.

Looks like the change is extending it from 1 year (extendable to 2) to 3 years.

Its unclear whether there are additional changes.

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 8:14 pm
 rone
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Depends how you define centrist I guess... I'd define it as anyone who is measured, moderate, balanced and rejects the extremism from the far left and far right...

The problem is you can't really offer a balanced perspective to child poverty, inequality and a poorly functioning state.  You either reject those things or you don't. 

The middle ground is not a smart place to be just because it's the middle ground. It doesn't automatically become a good position if you're after better outcome.

Besides, let's face it the current run of Centrism has much overlap with very right-wing attributes.

At best Centrism favours many of the damaging flaws of the status-quo rather than being in the middle.

We've had no real push back in 45 years to this system - pretending a progressive agenda has been tried in this context is nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 9:41 pm
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Besides, let's face it the current run of Centrism has much overlap with very right-wing attributes.

Well today in terms of current UK politics the extreme right is now represented by Kemi Badenoch or Nigel Farage, take your pick, personally I reckon Kemi Badenoch, and the extreme left is now represented by the Greens.

So anyone who wants to take a centre position in contemporary UK politics is by definition pretty right-wing. Some of the Tories on the left of the party probably have as much right to claim to be centrists as anyone else, and possibly more right than Sir Keir Starmer.......aping Nigel Farage isn't a great look for a "centrist"


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 10:13 pm
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Ernie  in ( parts of)  England.  Scottish and welsh politics are different. 


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 11:44 pm
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I am not sure why you feel the need to make that point TJ, this is the "UK government thread" and what is being discussed is politics in connection to the Westminster Parliament.


 
Posted : 06/05/2025 11:54 pm
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Because your analysis only relates to ( parts of?) England.

 

Welsh labour leader has been forging their own path.  Both wales and Scotland have a leftish national party

Greens have some power in Scotland 

 

Scotland has not got a right wing party anywhere nera power apart from when labour goes into coalition with them on councils.

 

The political centre is in a very different place


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 12:00 am
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Because your analysis only relates to ( parts of?) England.

No not at all. My analysis relates to the the UK government and the UK Parliament, because that's what this thread is about.

It doesn't relate to only parts of England anymore than the UK Parliament only relates to parts of England.

I know you believe that the only area of the UK which really matters is Scotland but that only represents a small minority of the UK's population and it is not what this thread is about, isn't there a Scottish political thread somewhere?


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 12:16 am
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Woosh.  Point flying right over over your head.

 

Are scotland and wales not a part of the UK?

"So anyone who wants to take a centre position in contemporary UK politics is by definition pretty right-wing"

 

Only applies to england

Typical parochial londoncentric view.   Thinking UK  and England are synonyms

 

 


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 2:06 am
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/welsh-labour-first-minister-says-she-is-losing-patience-with-starmers-policies

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/swinney-says-scotland-will-be-only-part-of-uk-to-tackle-cost-of-living-crisis

 

 

Ooos.  Links breaking the formatting.  Sorry.

 

In both Scotland and wales the political centre is to the left of england and moving to the left


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 2:13 am
kelvin reacted
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Can someone remind me why we are having to go cap in hand to India (and the rest of the world) again?

 

That's an easy one for Starmer to deploy in answer to any Tory criticism. But, of course, he doesn't dare.


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 8:00 am
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Posted by: tjagain

Woosh.  Point flying right over over your head.

 

Are scotland and wales not a part of the UK?

"So anyone who wants to take a centre position in contemporary UK politics is by definition pretty right-wing"

 

Only applies to england

Typical parochial londoncentric view.   Thinking UK  and England are synonyms

 

It appears to be you who has missed the point that this thread is about the UK government, as is illustrated by your "only applies to england" comment.

And I'm loving the supreme irony of your "londoncentric" accusation when no one at all mentions London and you clearly believe that Scotland's 57 Westminster MPs are immeasurably more important and relevant than London's 75 Westminster MPs.

 


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 8:53 am
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I wonder if Starmer will criticise India's very dangerous and escalatory airstrikes now?

🤣🤣🤣

 


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 9:37 am
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I hear that India was targeting "terrorist infrastructure". I wonder if they're working from the Israeli dictionary nowadays.

 

🤔


 
Posted : 07/05/2025 10:03 am
 rone
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Rumour of a trade deal between UK and USA for what it's worth.

What's interesting is markets in many assets have recovered their big drops in April.

Looks like their *may* be a rate cut today.

I'm sure Starmer and co will be taking the credit for that too despite letting the BoE drag their heels for months in really difficult circumstances for many households.

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 5:45 am
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Rumour of a trade deal between UK and USA for what it's worth.

My emphasis.

 

How convinced are we that Trump will stick to any terms or spirit of a deal if the UK annoys His Royal Orangeness in some way?

 

We know Trump has a tendency to rip up convention and generally accepted courtesies when he wants to feel like a big man. And, ultimately, what could the UK do? Get help from the other members of our trading bloc...?


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 8:00 am
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Posted by: rone

Rumour of a trade deal between UK and USA for what it's worth.

Very much this - we always knew the India deal would involve visas in return in some form or other. The concern is what have we conceded to get a US deal. It had better not be our much vaunted red line on food standards.

 

 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 8:35 am
 rone
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quote data-userid="1940" data-postid="13571215"]

Labour is so dysfunctional that it cannot govern. How long can it last in that case? (Richard Murphy YT)

You know what - it seems dysfunctional governments seem to limp on these days!

Right-wing government's are on to a win because they're all competing in the same field and people's expectations are at rock bottom.

I really do hope current Labour implode in some form - we need better.

Interest rate cut odds on.


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 9:09 am
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Very much this - we always knew the India deal would involve visas in return in some form or other. The concern is what have we conceded to get a US deal. It had better not be our much vaunted red line on food standards.

If it is deemed necessary, then it might.

 

That's the problem with voting to make yourself weaker. You end up, well, weaker.

 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 9:19 am
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I don't think he would dare conceed on food standards.  That would likely bring the government down. 

The tech taxes will be gone or reduced though


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 10:33 am
 dazh
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Curious to see to what extent Starver has sold us down the river to appease the Orange Idiot. 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:36 am
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Nailed it.

Yup, banking crisis, everyone hit, vote for Brexit as a reaction, tie the hands of UK companies and governments, most of us hit, then vote for Reform as a further reaction.

Curious to see to what extent Starver has sold us down the river to appease the Orange Idiot. 

I still can't see how it can go much beyond cars for cars.


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:36 am
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Posted by: kelvin

I still can't see how it can go much beyond cars for cars.

Increasing involvement of tech dickheads like palintir etc.


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:42 am
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True. And legal changes to feed everything about us, and created by us, into USA owned AI. There's the potential for a very depressing deal if it's shaped for USA tech/data giants. Thanks for the cheery thought.


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:46 am
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https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1920078940082667807

"Labour are at their lowest since 2019"

So that will be during Jeremy Corbyn's disastrous leadership and more than 4 years away from the general election then.

At what point do Labour MPs decide it is time to replace the Leader?

I guess it depends on whether the Leader is a bit of a lefty social democrat or a Tory/Farage aping right-winger, no?


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:49 am
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2028 ?


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:56 am
 rone
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Ouch to that poll.

And to DazH - agree with the sentiment. Many Graun columnists starting to get sweaty.

Seems a few folk are coming around the obvious idea that improving living standards might be part of the problem.

However it's obvious that Starmer/Reeves won't get it cos we're waiting for growth/taxes that's why they're so desperate to sell us down the road.

If only the had a central bank they could pull on that is in the unique position of creating the £ for the purposes of government spending/investment. If only that mechanism existed.

 

 

 

 

 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 11:57 am
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Ouch to that poll.

And the Greens have increased their share of the vote since the general election by 150%, all the polls show that their support has more than doubled.

I wonder what that could mean?


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 12:02 pm
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Posted by: MoreCashThanDash

It had better not be our much vaunted red line on food standards.

How much of a vote loser is that really outside rural areas (about which Lab don't care as they don't vote Lab)?

 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 12:05 pm
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Posted by: ratherbeintobago

Posted by: MoreCashThanDash

It had better not be our much vaunted red line on food standards.

How much of a vote loser is that really outside rural areas (about which Lab don't care as they don't vote Lab)?

 

I think the safety and quality of our food and an interest in animal welfare is not a rural/urban issue

 


 
Posted : 08/05/2025 12:14 pm
AD, ratherbeintobago, Keando and 1 people reacted
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