according to a Yougov 'exit poll' - "Leaving aside your own party preference, who do you think performed best overall in tonight’s debate?" they came out 51/49 for Sunak.
I thought he performed better, in the sense that he could point to his policies and target Starmer's lack of ideas. Whether his policies and ideas are any good, as others have said it's clear and easy to point at the NatServ idea or Rwanda flights, but doesn't actually make it a GOOD idea.
I sense that Starmer can improve. Sunak was about as good as he gets, being bloody annoying by overtalking.
As Sunak said - the risk is a blank cheque to Starmer but the alternative is another 5 years of this. Sometimes 'not that' is the best option.
Starmer has little to gain with his lead in the polls and everything to lose in this debate.
Starmer avoided obvious traps and kept reminding the watching TV audience of the 14 years we have already had and why do we think the next 5 would be better under the Tories?
I'm ok with how the debate went, relieved in fact. The GE is Labour's to lose, I want bloody caution from Starmer! I don't want him to gamble with the next 5 years trying to land some epic knockout blow on TV. That was never going to happen.
I suspect the polls will show next to no movement tomorrow which I'm fine with given the lead.
Starmer, don't **** this up!
Are people really getting this get up about a banana milkshake?
I'd have shat in the cup then pished in it for good measure.
George Cottrel was in farage’s entourage today, , reported in byline times
On 22 July 2016, while attending the Republican National Convention with Farage, Cottrell was arrested by IRS Criminal Investigation special agents at Chicago O'Hare International. Cottrell was federally indicted on 21 counts for conspiracy to commit money laundering, wire fraud, blackmail, and extortion. Denied bail by a judge who branded Cottrell a "serious flight risk," he was detained in custody at Metropolitan Correctional Center, Chicago.[7]
Cottrell's indictment states how in 2014, he met with undercover federal agents in Las Vegas, where he conspired to launder millions of dollars worth of drug money using offshore bank accounts. However, following a plea agreement in December 2016, prosecutors agreed to dismiss 20 counts in return for a guilty plea to a single count of wire fraud in which Cottrell admitted to explaining various ways criminal proceeds could be laundered.
In March 2017, Cottrell was sentenced and released by Judge Diane Humetewa, having served eight months in prison.[8]
George Cottrel was in farage’s entourage today, , reported in byline times
Was he the one wearing large tinted glasses and pushed a photographer out of the way??
Lord Hesketh's nephew? The Nazi shitehawk - I'd like to meet him.
^^ Did he really bring up his flat, I missed that? 😐
Farage is lucky he is a far right politician it has to be said though. They get drink thrown at them, left wing politicians get stabbed and shot in the street.
Pretty silly thing to say. In the last 102 years, 7 MPs have been assassinated. Of those 7, 6 were right wingers assassinated. 5 of those assassinations were by socialist-republicans, 1 by republicans, and 1 by a jihadist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_MPs_killed_in_office
Sorry, I can't count: " 4 of those assassinations were by socialist-republicans, 1 by republicans, and 1 by a jihadist."
^^ You are bringing up Irish Nationalist assassinations going back 140 years?
From your own link:
From 1882 to 1990, six MPs were assassinated by Irish nationalists. The murder of Jo Cox on 16 June 2016 was committed
I just didn't really think it relevant to bring up historic assassinations dating back some 140 years. Particularly involving the immensely complex issue of our relationship with Ireland over the centuries.
That was a different world to the one we live in now. As I made clear, I'm totally against violence aimed at any politician of any persuasion.
Even our own domestic security services say the rising terrorist threat that the UK is facing comes from domestic far right extremists.
I'm *genuinely* sorry if I've unknowingly offended you in another post or something. I come on here too have a laugh and to vent sometimes, not to make someone's, anyone's day worse.
It's ok for us to disagree on this. It's all good. 👍
Pretty silly thing to say.
I am not sure that it justifies you yourself going down silly road and making comparisons with incidents which occurred over 200 years ago, one of which involved a perpetrator who claimed to be owed money from a time in a Russian prison.
It all sounds rather silly.
I never cease to be surprised by the ability of various members of this forum in their attempts to 'manufacture' issues.
I'll continue living in the real world - where most people exist.
The 'relevance' of political assassinations 140 years is...what?
To answer my own question, it's a complete irrelevance.
binners - are you still taking bespoke commissions for artwork?
Ah, salvador (dali) please produce for me your interpretation of anything by vermeer.
Huck, that sounds pompous and pretentious.
I think you know what I mean.
Let me know; it will be for elder son who lives in Lincoln so possibilities could include...Lincoln Cathedral, the Lancaster bomber memorial sculpture, original WW1 battle tank as designed and built in Lincoln, Red Arrows (Scampton or Coningsby).
There is a possibility of a second piece - for me daughter who is also Lincoln based; theme unknown as yet.
Happy to discuss via DM or phone; let me know which is best for you.
I'll be voting labour even though I'm more of a Liberal democrat.
I'm sure Starmer will shout very hard about his victory, and that's fair enough.. but this is not an election that voted labour in, it's an election to expel the conservatives.
From the sound of the public on Good Morning Britain (yes, I know), they feel Sunak was better. Based on that Starmer needs to avoid any debates as he is clearly not coming across well, which just supports what I have been saying about him for the last few years. Even so that is something when compared to Sunak who I can't even watch.
I’ll be voting labour even though I’m more of a Liberal democrat.
Because you think there is a risk that Rishi Sunak might win the election?
I’ll be voting labour even though I’m more of a Liberal democrat.
I’m sure Starmer will shout very hard about his victory, and that’s fair enough.. but this is not an election that voted labour in, it’s an election to expel the conservatives.
Meh, semantics innit.
The real question has to be what will Labour do once they're in. I tend to use my missus perception of things as a barometer (she's not really a follower of politics), she reckons it is obvious that that Starmer is still being cautious. She also noted that he still lacks details on policies in his answers. Basically the same criticism they've been subject to for the last couple of years, which really shouldn't be the case at this point.
She also felt the debate was run a little biased in favour of Sunak, and really didn't like the 'American style' of it all (I just went and played with bikes in the Garage)...
Do these 'debates' actually add anything to an election?
I really cannot stand them. So much half-truth, lies, bullsh*tting and arguing. It makes my head hurt.
I much prefer to take my time to consider policies and make my own decision. I don't need someone, particularly a party leader, to shout me down to persuade me otherwise.
😔
Starmer needs to avoid any debates as he is clearly not coming across well
When a leader is far ahead in the polls it is never a good idea to agree to a televised debate. If they change people's perception it is likely to disadvantage the one leading in the polls.
Rishi Sunak on the other hand has little nothing to lose, most rational people accept that he has all but lost the general election.
The only disadvantage for Keir Starmer not agreeing to a televised debate is it would expose him to accusations of not having any bottle.
Based on that Starmer needs to avoid any debates as he is clearly not coming across well, which just supports what I have been saying about him for the last few years.
Thing is, in the leadership election when he was actually articulating his ideas I thought he came across well.
Now I think the problem is there are zero ideas left so he's up there saying meaningless words and that's about it.
Had Starmer said this he would’ve been nailed to the floor with demands to explain how it would be funded
I mean for crying out loud this debate about funded or unfunded certainly started after gross misunderstanding about tax cuts and pay fors. I would rather neither party went there.
This economic myth is going to kill any actual useful outcomes in improving society or financing the state.
Do these ‘debates’ actually add anything to an election?
For me not really, I disliked Tories before it was fashionable so there's very little Lil' Rishi could say to change my mind. I'm probably as wary of Starmer as many, but again these Debates aren't going to provide much detail on Labour policies.
These debates are really for people that don't follow politics day to day. They can sit down for one hour listen to party leaders spout and then make up their minds. I'm surprised they didn't get Ant and Dec to present it TBH.
I’m surprised they didn’t get Ant and Dec to present it TBH.
That is the level they are at.
And I don't get how many people get fired up to comment on this debate circus.
Amazing how snowflakey the likes of Richard Tice, Isabel Oakeshott and Julia Hartley-Brewer are about a milkshake.
We would never have got through The Blitz if Londoners had got hot under the collar about milkshakes.
Where are their stiff upper lips for heaven's sake?
Bloody pansies.
Amazing how snowflakey the likes of Richard Tice, Isabel Oakeshott and Julia Hartley-Brewer are about a milkshake.
Well it was a banana milkshake and bananas are a bit foreign aren't they.
@frankconway - I’ve just DM’ed you about bespoke artwork. That sounds right up my Strasse.
Purely coincidentally I’ve just drawn a Lancaster on a poster for the 40’s weekend on the East Lancs Railway last month
I am hopelessly biased against the Tories, but I’m very surprised polls are reporting that Sunak ‘won’ the debate. I thought he came off as tetchy and robotic with his repeated £2000 attack line. The Tories are selling fear uncertainty and doubt so Starmer has got to get an optimistic message going not just change from the current shower of shit. It’s a mistake to agree to the head to head format when you’re so far ahead, should have diluted it with all the others and just let Farage showboat and suck up all the media attention.
I thought Starmer came off well in that but then I'm sworn anti Tory so lil-Rishi just made me want to smash the telly.
I did like the when I was DPP you were betting against the country bit but I bet that went over most people's heads and all the would have heard is the usual labour will put up taxes bull***t.
More or Less is worth listening to this morning.... and no doubt every week up to voting day.
I am hopelessly biased against the Tories, but I’m very surprised polls are reporting that Sunak ‘won’ the debate
I thought the same. He appeared as arrogant, tetchy and ‘how dare you question me’ as ever and had the audience openly laughing at him on a couple of occasions, particularly when he mentioned national service
It also turns out - surprise surprise - that the £2000 tax figure was not produced by the treasury at all but plucked out of the air by Tory party minions and they had been repeatedly told not to claim these were independent figures
https://Twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1798252445321343456?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
I am hopelessly biased against the Tories, but I’m very surprised polls are reporting that Sunak ‘won’ the debate.
I am not surprised, I have a very low opinion of the people who are allowed to vote on things. It also does show just how bad Starmer is though doesn't it as I can't see how anybody wouldn't hate Sunak after 30 seconds of his condescending bullshit.
Bias from BBC. They have Farage in there, a leader with no MP's and I think two councillors of a private company party, yet no Green or SNP leader profiles?
Scroll down to leader profiles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/crggn4j2lm0t
More or Less is worth listening to this morning…. and no doubt every week up to voting day.
The problem with looking for fact, applying common sense and balanced judgement is that so many of the voting public are happy to forego all that and get news from Ticktock and the Daily Wail.
@binners – is that a Reform UK campaign poster you’ve drawn there?
Its not, as there aren’t any Union Flags. You need lots of those.
You’ve reminded me of the time when UKIP did some horribly anti-EU, anti-immigrant flyer featuring a Spitfire, but didn’t notice the insignia showing that despite being an RAF aircraft, fighting in the Battle of Britain, it was from a squadron of Polish pilots 😂
I just didn’t really think it relevant to bring up historic assassinations dating back some 140 years.
Neither did I. But how far back do you think it's fair to go, then? 5 years? 10 years? Whatever number you choose, it's simply factually untrue that right wing politicians "get drink thrown at them, left wing politicians get stabbed and shot in the street".
I am hopelessly biased against the Tories, but I’m very surprised polls are reporting that Sunak ‘won’ the debate
It seemed that way to me. Sunak was far better at getting his attack lines across, Starmer just waffled on most of the time, and was far too slow to rebut the £2000 tax rise claim. Ultimately, the debate gets reduced to a few clips on the news and Sunak provided the better soundbites for those clips.
Starmer was at his best when challenging Sunak on immigration and NHS waiting lists, his sarcasm about Sunak's maths played well.
