I guess Russia want Snowden back in the mix so he can leak some more stuffs.
Re chasing the big money behind the rioters, surprise surprise it’s the usual suspects:
Priority number one has to be addressing the growing problem of far-right billionaires supporting the erosion of democracy and outright insurrection because a) They're unhappy about being asked to pay taxes and b) They believe that they're entitled for force their eugenic far-right worldview on the rest of us.
I guess Russia want Snowden back in the mix so he can leak some more stuffs.
Leaking crimes committed by the government against its people should be applauded.
@ thols2, I could visit twitter if I wanted to read random tweats, give it a rest having to post every 5 mins eh.
Bloomberg said Mr Trump was planning a military send-off for himself at Andrews.
We can only hope ...
readyaimfire
I'm a gabbler, me.
@ thols2, I could visit twitter if I wanted to read random tweats, give it a rest having to post every 5 mins eh.
That's a bit harsh isn't it?
After all thols2 has been a mine of information and insight throughout this thread, often well ahead of the msm.
And that tweet is interesting and relevant as it highlights the consistent failure of Trump to ever do anything on a new healthcare plan, despite his frequent promises and lies. It's quite funny too.
Regardless, in time honoured fashion I'll remind you that nobody is making you read it, you could literally just scroll on by..
This is the real problem, Russia, Iran and China etc are almost the distraction for the war being waged on the majority of people by the 1%ers. Like Trump they don’t care that the absoluteness of their greed is breaking down the society that provides them with their wealth. It isn’t about having enough to do everything they can possibly dream of, it is just a way of keeping count of “winning”.
Priority number one has to be addressing the growing problem of far-right billionaires supporting the erosion of democracy
Those sort of people have ruled the World for most of Human history, Democracy for the masses is still a recent thing, and with it their gradual loss of absolute control over the population, their main priority is to kill it.
the population? or democracy?
I'd posit that a fair job has been made of poisoning the well in UK & US. Limiting things to two parties in FPTP certainly cuts down on the number of bribes needed.
I slipped into some right-wing TikToks. They are posting videos of all the security in DC saying things like "this is how they take over... this is socialist communist fascism... why does a beloved president need so much protection?" etc etc
Not one twinkling of an insight that it just might maybe have something to do with the Capitol being stormed by right-wing insurrectionists looking to murder members of congress.
And of course the true crazies are still convinced that the troops are on their side and are going to dramatically turn around on cue and arrest everyone at the inauguration, like some terrible dystopic young-adult fiction. 🤣
That's why Trump is not attending apparently. Not because he is a petulant man-baby. 🙄
readyaimfire
I’m a gabbler, me
🙂 #BAGF
There is talk of Trump pardoning Snowden.
To do so will probably guarantee that he has an unfortunate "accident" involving a russian tower block and a long fall.
the population? or democracy?
A little from column A, a little from column B, you can't make a far right utopia without breaking some eggs.
readyaimfire
I’m a gabbler, me.
Underrated post
socialist communist fascism
Well they've got all the bases covered. With such a wide appeal how can they fail?
@ thols2, I could visit twitter if I wanted to read random tweats, give it a rest having to post every 5 mins eh.
No, please continue 🙂 I like reading tweets here - I view this thread as a sort of twitter aggregation service, saves me having to trawl through the shite myself.
I also appreciate Thols contributions, Twitter posts included
Me too. It's my secret guilty pleasure. Never been on twitter or had an account and can spaff off being all high and mighty about not lowering myself to that nonsense whilst secretly enjoying an edited highlights (lowlights?) service here.
Presidential pardons strike me as a sort of corrupt African dictator behaviour that we all scorn at. They really need to ditch the thing.
But he is draining the swamp
There is something on the CNN website about the ideals the founding fathers had for the pardoning process and it was aimed at righting wrongs, EDIT found it https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics/donald-trump-eleventh-hour-pardons/index.html
Not sure that trump has ever cared about the constitution or the founding fathers etc etc
@ thols2, I could visit twitter if I wanted to read random tweats, give it a rest having to post every 5 mins eh.
Keep ‘em coming please @thols2 - some of us appreciate your input on this thread. I have been pointed in the right direction numerous times from your posts, and read things I wouldn’t have otherwise found.
Not one twinkling of an insight that it just might maybe have something to do with the Capitol being stormed by right-wing insurrectionists looking to murder members of congress.
We finally caught up with last week's ITV documentary on the Capitol riot. Both scary and eye opening at the same time. The lack of self awareness as they justified using force to secure "their" stolen democracy over the majority of voters wishes.
What truly was worrying was footage of heavily armed militia riding around city streets in the back of puck up trucks in some city in the US, in a carbon copy of what we've seen in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, every tinpot dictatorship around the world. If they take control, there will be some atrocities.
On the subject of which, this was a fascinating read....
BBC News - Wilmington 1898: When white supremacists overthrew a US government
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55648011
That ITV documentary was outstanding. Their coverage was better than even the US stations. The Militia you saw taking over the city was Louisville Kentucky I think. It was frightening how the Police just vacated the city centre and ceded it to the militias.
Was also aware of the Wilmington coup in 1898. It lays bare the myth of the long road to emancipation post Civil war. Many States had more Black representation in the late 19th / early 20th Century than they do today. See also the Tulsa incident in the 1920's.
And for those debating about wether the events at the Capitol were a coup, a self coup, a putsch, an insurrection or whatever, (as many in the media seem want to do) I think the most appropriate term would be 'lynch mob'.
It's an eye opener to how fragile democracy is really. We should already be aware of how fragile everything is after the Yugoslav war and the Armenian troubles at the end of last year but somehow we always think those are different. It's getting closer to home 🙁
Another fan of the twitter posts here
The lack of self awareness as they justified using force to secure “their” stolen democracy over the majority of voters wishes.
The thing about the USA is that they have the 2nd amendment stuff drummed into them from all sides, their whole lives. Of course the people should march on the government with guns if the government has gone rogue. A good citizen owes it to the founding fathers, to democracy itself.
From our anti-gun culture over here it would seem unthinkable to march on the Houses of Parliament with guns, but I reckon most of the mob truly believed they were in the right. And frankly, who can blame them? They have been fed a constant diet of outright lies about stolen elections, briefcases, paedophiles and pizzas by people with enormous marketing power. Maybe some others knew it was unjust, but they wanted to 'own some libs' (because that is also a praise-worthy activity now).
What happened is that mostly dumb people were weaponised for the interests of the GOP. It's terrifying to see it happen so ferociously, but it's not really different from the xenophobia and populism we have over here.
If it were up to me, I'd see that Trump, Cruz, Hawley, Boebert et al are held accountable to an attempted coup, as well as all their staffers and people who acted maliciously in enabling and propagating the big con. And actually, I'd go easy on the protesters who were mostly doing what they thought was right. But I suspect a handful of people will go to prison for a long time, and the architects will be just fine.
Mitch McConnell “ directly blames President Trump for attack on Capitol “.
Oh that would be nice. Where's that from?
Of course the people should march on the government with guns if the government has gone rogue
To be honest, that's how "rogue" governments sometimes have to be dealt with, but I don't understand how losing a democratic election, which has stood the highest legal scrutiny in the land, can be considered as a "rogue government" by any non-brainwashed adult.
Was considering with my lad whether the oath of allegiance/flag ceremony every day at school is a factor in shaping/warping their minds from an early age. Must be the only "democratic" country to do so, surely?
Biden is going to introduce a new "democracy" act, looks quite good, unfortunately doesn't look to include automatic voter enrolment, which they proposed during opposition. Need to have a more detailed read of the campaign financing part yet, but at least it looks like thay are trying.
"this is how they take over… this is socialist communist..."
I remember when we were told that Socialism and Communism would mean that we'd never afford to own our own homes and would have to either queue for hours or pay over the odds for basic goods. I for one am glad that none of this came to pass...
@ thols2, I could visit twitter if I wanted to read random tweats, give it a rest having to post every 5 mins eh.
At the risk of turning this thread into a love-in, @thols2's posts have been very informative. No complaints here, keep them coming.
Mitch McConnell “ directly blames President Trump for attack on Capitol “.
Of COURSE he does. McConnell is one of the great survivors, effluent floats and so does McConnell. Far better to make the outgoing president responsible than to acknowledge the core of the GOP is rotten.
If it were up to me, I’d see that Trump, Cruz, Hawley, Boebert et al are held accountable to an attempted coup, as well as all their staffers and people who acted maliciously in enabling and propagating the big con...
All useful idiots for sure. The first question that anyone should ask is "who donated to their campaigns?", follow the money and you'll find who has enabled these freaks. Some of that money has found it's way to these shores too.
Oh that would be nice. Where’s that from?</blockquote
Mitch? His opening speech today
That ITV documentary was outstanding. Their coverage was better than even the US stations
The pessimist in me suspects they associated ITV with Britain and therefore Brexit giving the reporters an easier ride.
I am obviously making some large leaps in logic/assumptions
There's a good interview with the ITV crew on the R4 Media Show podcast. He described how he reduced tension, talking with them about Brits being allies throughout history etc. Worth a listen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p093x09w
"The pessimist in me suspects they associated ITV with Britain and therefore Brexit giving the reporters an easier ride."
TBF, I think ITV struck lucky in that they had a major correspondent and a professional film crew in the building at the time, not sure other networks did, thus their reliance on phone phootage etc. But yes, being British probably gave them an easier ride.
The most exciting thing about the inauguration ceremony is that it should unleash a swathe of prosecutions. I'm hoping that the reason some of the really big fish haven't been charged yet is to prevent Trump giving them a pardon.
Cruz, Boebert, Hawley, Giulliani.....can you place your right hand on the bible please.
Well.....here's hoping!
That Mitch McConnell is lower than a snakes belly. Still questioning a 7 million mandate by suggesting the nearly split Senate somehow correaltes to a fair representation of American voters.
The only crumb of comfort is that he suggested some senior figures were culpable whilst not naming them directly and also suggesting that more prosecutions are to come.
. I’m hoping that the reason some of the really big fish haven’t been charged yet is to prevent Trump giving them a pardon.
He can give pre-emptive blanket pardons
Have we done this?
https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1351326993342627840
https://www.newsweek.com/viral-video-warns-donald-trump-take-charge-army-domestic-terrorists-1562580
Here's hoping the succession of lawsuits for tax evasion and fraud will keep him sufficiently tied up in knots that his two tiny thumbs will be too pre-occupied with keeping himself out of Rykers (other penitentiaries are available)
Here's a thought...if, as reported, trump has decided not to attempt a self-pardon and not issue pardons to family/close associates why would he pardon anyone else?
His power has almost disappeared and he faces significant potential problems - mainly financial and legal.
He is known to be transactional so what could any of those who might be hoping for a pardon do for him when the debts become due, lawsuits land and melania starts divorce proceedings?
"He can give pre-emptive blanket pardons"
I know that but at the moment the ball is in the corridor of uncertainty. The prime suspects are probably tying themselves in knots, wondering wether to ask for a pardon or not. Wondering what charges may or may not be coming.
When do his powers run out, is it at midnight tonight or when Joe signs on the dotted line?
When Joe is sworn in. Midday tomorrow in DC, 5pm here iirc
seems to me like Mitch McConnell is sending out a thinly veiled threat, don't pardon yourself, your family, snowdon or Assange and keep your head down until tomorrow or I'll whip the senate republicans to pass the impeachment when you are gone.
has he pardoned Tiger King yet?
He’ll go for a last minute self pardon, it’ll be the last thing he does as a president, timed perfectly to try and distract news coverage from Biden being sworn in
He’ll go for a last minute self pardon
he probably can't afford it.
Ep. 4 of the excellent Trump Show entitled ‘Downfall’
The Trump Show, Downfall: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p093rzhd via @bbciplayer
Was expecting rent a rant anytime now! (8/10 - mostly for ‘lame duck a l’orange’) 🤣
The prime suspects are probably tying themselves in knots, wondering wether to ask for a pardon or not. Wondering what charges may or may not be coming.
The catch with a pardon this late in the day is theres more to the process than the President announcing the pardon - until the process has been enacted and finalised 'The President' can change his mind and retract it Today the president is Trump, tomorrow its Biden - it can be a different president that revokes the pardon if it hasn't yet been enacted.
So a pardon is potentially worthless - however you can't pardon someone who's innocent. Giving pre-emptive pardons out this late in the day basically attributes guilt to them moments before the protection the pardon was supposed to offer gets taken away.
A pre-emptive pardon can pre-empt a conviction and be issued before or even during a prosecution. They would be issued in circumstances where a trial and conviction would inevitably be followed by a pardon but they don't contest the outcome of that trial - the pardon doesn't overturn guilt it just overturns or reduces the sentence served by the guilty. It can't pre-empt a 'crime yet to be committed' or a charge or prosecution yet to be made - so a pardon in itself reveals a 'Crime against the United States' has been committed by that person - as those are the only kinds of crime a President can pardon.
Don’t forget, Trump is a spoiled manbaby. As such, he knows that ‘a pardon’ is the grownup word for a ‘bottom-burp’
Appellant: ‘President Trump Sir, have you thought about issuing a pardon?’
If he is dumb enough to attempt a self-pardon that will go straight to the courts.
Isn’t trump pardoning himself late on just tee-ing up Biden to tear it up, thus giving him more ammo to feed to the baying hoards?
It was reported that he would charge $2m for a pardon... I expect that's why he's planning to issue loads of them.
Neb, the reporting was that some of those seeking pardons were offering chunky payments to lobbyists - not to trump.
Journos and various Dems will undoubtedly be looking for evidence of any payments getting to trump or close associates as that would be another legal stick to beat him with.
Trump won't pardon anybody close accused of misdeeds, as it points to his own associated guilt. he will hang the world out to dry to defend himself.
Won’t his argument be ‘I have to Pardon myself/those close to me to to protect me/them from the radical left issuing bogus charges, in order to bankrupt me/them’?
So, he's pardoning Steve Bannon eh!
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/steve-bannon-pardoned-by-trump/index.html
So, he’s pardoning Steve Bannon eh!
The list of pardons is an interesting read - for each one issued theres a dialogue with things like who has supported or reccommended the pardon - details of the crime pardoned, the remorse shown. exemplary behaviour since the event, the efforts made to turn their life around, good deeds done. Theres the odd amusing one - "a guy done a crime but it was like ages ago and is no an OK kinda a guy and if he gets a pardon then he can buy a gun"
But Steve Bannon's is just "he's been investigated for some fraud stuff - he's a conservative'
Stephen K. Bannon – President Trump granted a full pardon to Stephen Bannon. Prosecutors pursued Mr. Bannon with charges related to fraud stemming from his involvement in a political project. Mr. Bannon has been an important leader in the conservative movement and is known for his political acumen.
How can you be pardoned for a crime you haven't been convicted of? 🤔
Didn't recognise many names there, although Michael Ashley sounds familiar? 🤔
Pardoning rappers to show he is down with the black community and BLM is just fake mews.
Steven Samuel Grantham - He now seeks a pardon for forgiveness and to restore his gun rights.
At least he's honest about it!
Didn’t recognise many names there, although Michael Ashley sounds familiar?
Mainly corrupt state and local politicians, by the looks of it. Tiger King seems to have missed the last limo to Pardonpalooza though.
Drain the swamp I hear him say...
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/trump-revokes-rule-lobbying-by-white-house-staff-460608
the ball is in the corridor of uncertainty.
this deserves greater appreciation than it received. I’m storing this for deployment in dull meetings.
How can you be pardoned for a crime you haven’t been convicted of? 🤔
Well, it leaves Bannon in the position of implied guilt, and I think removes his right to silence if asked to give evidence?
Which could be interesting in an investigation into Trump himself? (Leaving aside Bannon would just lie)
I don’t think Bannon holds any loyalty to Trump. He saw him as a useful idiot. In many ways I think Bannon would love to be the man who’s evidence convicted Trump.
Also didn't someone say he was charging for a pardon? Not sure how accurate this is, or even if it's legal but if true it would explain why he was firing out so many pardons.
would explain why he was firing out so many pardons.
I don't think that he has upped the game for numbers of pardons issued, just for pardons of close friends and allies. And even then a few previous presidents have issued a few dodgy pardons for friends and allies, Trump has just expanded that sector.
TBF there are a lot of pardons in there for non-violent marijuana offences etc that have received some incredibly long sentences.
https://www.thoughtco.com/number-of-pardons-by-president-3367600
Presidential Pardons Through the Years
President Years in Office Pardons
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 2,819
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 1,913
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 1,110
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 1,087
Lyndon B. Johnson 1963-1969 960
Richard Nixon 1969-1974 863
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 773
Herbert Hoover 1929-1933 672
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 668
Jimmy Carter 1977-1981 534
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 472
Bill Clinton 1993-2001 396
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 393
William H. Taft 1909-1913 383
Gerald Ford 1974-1977 382
Warren G. Harding 1921-1923 383
William McKinley 1897-1901 291
Barack Obama 2009-2017 212
George W. Bush 2001-2009 189
George H.W. Bush 1989-1993 74
Donald J. Trump 2017-2021 70*
it's always worth seeing Mr Pies analysis in print form 😀
Trump is nothing more than a brattish, sub-literate, braggart, ill-informed privileged, self-righteous, entitled, Mummy’s boy. He is a gurning slug who mistakes brash for charisma who thinks popularity matters more than integrity, that diplomacy has no place in politics. A bloated, incandescent lobotomised sexual predator. A paranoid and supremely unqualified demagogue. A massive 70 year old cheese puff Wotsit with tiny wandering hands. An arrogant ill-informed, oversized Oompa Loompa. A whinging, braying, misogynistic know nothing. A ****-headed egomaniac with a skull full of fetid shit.
Concise. I like it
90% of that could equally apply to Bojo
Quite the rallying cry from Bernie here. If only we had someone like him in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/20/joe-biden-action-bernie-sanders
Boarded AF1 to ‘YMCA’, for it to take off to ‘My Way’
Real classy like.