[Closed] Turing bill defeated by minister

Tories blocked it so they can introduce their own version, therefore bocoming an awesome all inclusive party.

Don't know the minister's motivation but it's a bollocks idea anyway. There was a good debate about it on Jeremy Vine yesterday (I think). A lot of people consider the idea of a "pardon" offensive because it's like saying, ok you were gay and that was wrong but we forgive you.

spot the labour party supporter LoL

Isnt it great when politics gets in the way of doing good things 🙁

Fuhrer May's voting record. I think it's pretty clear where the party line is

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Spiked because they didn't want anything proposed by the SNP on the statute books, is the rumour.

The MP who's private members Bill it was has just been on Channel 4 news. He'd been personally assured by the Tory party whips that they wouldn't oppose it

Then they scuppered it. Apparently on orders from Theresa, who wants to end all Dave's metropolitan, liberal metropolitan nonsense

Imagine that? Tory's being a bunch of lying, underhand, totally untrustworthy shysters? Who'd have thunk it?

I suspect there's a lot more of this nasty, illiberal bollocks in the post. Welcome to Brexit Britain, where it increasingly looks like the Tory party has fully morphed into UKIP.

Tories have their own bill in the pipeline.

Interesting opinions on the pardon - as I understand it, a pardon means you are convicted but your sentence is quashed, rather than your conviction is quashed. So I can see why people oppose the idea if it doesn't do away with the criminality.

Except that the Tory bill does not pardon the people still alive.

We'll forgive you when you're dead, you massive gayer!

Just sheer spite / homophobia at play. Whilst it may not be perfect, the proposed legislation was a step in the right direction and pretty harmless. Blocking it was disgraceful.

TBH it's not clear exactly what sort of shitebaggery it was. It might have been homophobia, it might have been political games to block it just because it was an SNP bill, or it might have been so they can steal the idea and pretend it was theirs. But I think basically everyone agrees it's shitebaggery. Talking out is fundamentally shit, I know every party does it but that doesn't make it alright.

I thought this was interesting though:
"The government said it would not support Mr Nicolson's Sexual Offences (Pardons) Bill - which proposes a blanket pardon for the living - because it could lead to some people being cleared of offences that are still crimes."

So which acts/offences are still crimes but were to be pardoned?

It's obvious that May regards Dave's Notting Hill, metropolitan liberalism to be a temporary blip within the Tory party, and somewhat ironically, seeing as she coined the phrase, it's the eager resumption of the full on Nasty Party again. Much to the delight of the old school bigoted, racist, homophobic Tory rank and file who no longer need to vote UKIP. They're home!

Oh joy!

Oh WTAF

I read the story this morning that the turing bill would pass and actually felt that something good would be happening.
Now I've seen this and yet again feel that this has been '2016: the year of narrow minded self interest'

****ing self interested barstewards

This country just keeps getting nastier

The brexit vote is seen by the Tories to have been a signal to drag the entire country to the right

utterly depressing

There was a good debate about it on Jeremy Vine yesterday

I call bollocks on that for a start.

"The government said it would not support Mr Nicolson's Sexual Offences (Pardons) Bill - which proposes a blanket pardon for the living - because it could lead to some people being cleared of offences that are still crimes."

But the then later on in the article it says the Turing bill would not result in a pardon if:

The act in question would not still be illegal for any other reason.

It's the opposite of virtue signalling. It's saying 'hey... are you a nasty intolerant bigoted *? Good. Well here's the news... no need to vote UKIP any more. We've given up pretending we're not utter *s, so it's alright to vote for us again"

It's quite the thing at the moment, but as everything starts to unravel, hopefully less so. It's starting to feel like living in Berlin in 1933

The brexit vote is seen by the Tories to have been a signal to drag the entire country to the right

utterly depressing

Fortunately the majority see this as a very good thing indeed.
Its just you minority lot in your isolated leftie bubble that disagrees.

A few people who due to their sexuality /love for someone else where persecuted, imprisoned, lost their job etc, and yet this lot in power fail to say sorry and offer a pardon, what sort of disfunctional minds must they have.

I mean FFS , basic human decency says that being gay is not a crime but specifically Turing- probably saved 1000s of lives possibly 100s of 1000s, winning us WW2 and as a reward we had him chemically castrated

And in steps an utter **** just to hammer home the point

Fortunately the majority see this as a very good thing indeed.
Its just you minority lot in your isolated leftie bubble that disagrees.

you definitely missed off a winky face there

or you do really just hate foreign people and gays?
well Brexit's changed something, once upon a time someone would have been too ashamed to admit to something like that

In a non shouty way can someone explain why this has not been done years ago? During the previous labour government for example?

Its just you minority lot in your isolated leftie bubble that disagrees.

Never thought of myself as being in a minority leftist bubble, more of a huge ballon of left thinking realists, and soon the bubble will burst and we get power for the people who care and we care for.

Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him ... So on behalf of the British government, and all those who live freely thanks to Alan's work I am very proud to say: we're sorry, you deserved so much better

Gordon Brown, 2009

but yeah it shouldve been done a long time ago

[i]Until 2003 the charge of rape was a narrowly defined offence involving non-consensual vaginal penetration that could only be committed by a male on a female. Prosecutions were rare and it was mainly, although not exclusively used for offences against adult women. Even where rape was alleged, cases involving girls under 16 were more likely to be prosecuted using one of the lesser charges outlined below. It was assumed this made it easier to get convictions, but meant that the seriousness of offences was not always acknowledged. Attempts to prosecute the abuse of boys were overshadowed by the criminalisation of all sexual acts between males until 1967 in England and Wales, as well as the invasive policing of homosexuality informed by Victorian moral values. Same sex-practices between males were prosecuted through charges that were euphemistically described as ‘unnatural offences’ and which included ‘buggery’ or ‘attempted buggery' and ‘gross indecency’. [u]These generic charges concealed offences involving minors; only by checking the specific details of each individual case is it possible to be certain whether a child was involved.[/u] [/I]

And that's why blanket pardons aren't acceptable

http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/child-sexual-abuse-in-england-and-wales-prosecution-and-prevalence-1918-197

I believe the new bill will be distanced from this one by renaming it the bikepacking bill.

Sorry.

I'm not a leftie, I'm liberal centrist (not a lib dem, I don't have a political affiliation)

What I am is pissed off

In a non shouty way can someone explain why this has not been done years ago? During the previous labour government for example?

Or the previous Tory govt before that, or the labour one before that...
It was an inhuman and pathetic law in the first place and something we should all be very ashamed of

but ninfan [b]if[/b] thats the real reason then you are going to really disapoint the rightwing majority in this country who see prosecuting homosexuals as a "very good thing"

and the Bill was not a blanket pardon......

And it would do so only under the conditions that:
The other person involved at the time the act was committed was a consenting partner aged 16 or above
The act would not constitute an offence under section 71 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (sexual activity in a public lavatory)
The act in question would not still be illegal for any other reason.

so basically just rightwing homophobia then

[quote=kimbers ]I mean FFS , basic human decency says that being gay is not a crime but specifically Turing- probably saved 1000s of lives possibly 100s of 1000s, winning us WW2 and as a reward we had him chemically castrated

The popular name for this bill is deceptive - it wouldn't make any difference to Alan Turing because he's already been pardoned.

And to use the same language that the regulars in my local use, now that the queers now where they stand, now to let the ****'s and the ****s know too.

It's great being british at the moment, isn't it? Well... PROPER. British. White. Straight. Obviously

binners - Member

It's the opposite of virtue signalling.

"dickface signalling"

The scary thing is that it now genuinely seems that you should be free to wear your bigotry as a badge of honour.

I hate what this country has become in such a terrifyingly short period of time.

What scares me most is the fact that this government are now gleefully advocating policies that reflect the views of the most breathtakingly thick people I've ever met. It's like a celebration of wilful stupidity*

* see selected posts above

The incredible thing, binners, is that you don't even have to be a leftie to recognise that any more.

(anybody care to provide the punchline? 😉 )

Fortunately the majority see this as a very good thing indeed.
Its just you minority lot in your isolated leftie bubble that disagrees

I see Jambalaya has a new even more subhuman login..

rightwing majority in this country who see prosecuting homosexuals as a "very good thing"

😯

The bill proposed to pardon everyone including those who did something that would still be a crime today. That's a powerful argument to oppose it. Have the Tories hijacked a very worthwhile back benchers bill. Probably and there is no good in that

I see Jambalaya has a new even more subhuman login..

Thanks for your considered input, for your info I NEVER have multiple logins ANYWHERE.

I only saw your post after I'd made mine. Have a read, twice maybe and look at the content not the poster login

[quote=jambalaya ]The bill proposed to pardon everyone including those who did something that would still be a crime today.

#jambafact

[quote=Kevin Foster MP (cons)]Likewise, having heard both arguments, and having got a copy of the Bill, I think there is no suggestion from anyone that what is still a criminal offence today should not remain on someone’s record; ...

We need to be clear that nobody is suggesting that someone should be able to go around claiming that they would have been innocent of an offence that would still be an offence to this day.

...or you could always check what the proposed bill says:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2016-2017/0006/cbill_2016-20170006_en_1.htm

1 Effect of this Act
Nothing in this Act is to be interpreted as pardoning, disregarding or in any
other way affecting cautions, convictions, sentences or any other consequences
of convictions or cautions for conduct or behaviour that is unlawful on the date that the Act comes into force.

(4)The conditions a relevant offence must meet are that—
(a)the other person involved in the conduct constituting the offence—
(i)consented to it, and
(ii)was aged 16 or over,
(b)any such conduct would not be an offence under section 71 of the
Sexual Offences Act 2003 (sexual activity in a public lavatory), and
(c)any such conduct would not be an offence on the date this Act comes
into force.

Jammers dear, I think what the whispers to scupper the bill have been implying, with all the subtlety of a breeze block, is...

Well.... gays... They're all kiddy fiddlers, int they? So we'd be pardoning kiddy fiddlers., innit..

.... and then there's all them ****'s. They're all kiddy fiddlers an'all innit?

I do love the way our national debate has been so enhanced by the referendum result you're so supportive of. I'M just waiting for us to reach its logical conclusion, in about 6 months, when John Terry is appointed as minister for wominz and racial stuff n shit

Innit?

Whatever your take on the whole issue of this bill itself, what the pardons would mean , who it applies to and what they did in the past, I find it baffling that a proposed piece of legislation can be simply killed off by someone waffling on for a long time.
😡
Just one of the reasons The Man (or Woman) On The Street find Parliament and our elected members such an odious institution

oldtalent - Member

The brexit vote is seen by the Tories to have been a signal to drag the entire country to the right

utterly depressing

Fortunately the majority see this as a very good thing indeed.
Its just you minority lot in your isolated leftie bubble that disagrees.

Rusty Spanner - Member
I believe the new bill will be distanced from this one by renaming it the bikepacking bill.

Sorry.

I laughed and felt guilty.

#jambafact

Jambaliar has just become a parody of himself. At this point if he said that grass is green I'd be looking out of the window to check.