[Closed] Tottenham Riots

The Southern Yeti - Member

"Apologist"

Sorry, what?

Nothing - just being silly.

Indelible pink spray paint for the looters?
Might help with identification later?

Just pick up every one with a pink stripe across their face and unless they own an Adam Ant album, arrrest them.

I might just spray a couple of people I don't like anyway, just on the off chance.

Nothing - just being silly.

Yep, me too.

But I got myself a tag on an adult thread that isn't started by me, about me. I'm really quite proud so gonna head down the gym to check myself out in the mirror for an hour.

Please don't type too much in my abscence it's very hard keeping up with these proper topics.

Can't be arsed

Nothing's stopping these young adults from dropping their faux-jamaican accents and seeking a better life abroad.

I don't agree that borrowing even more of our grand-children's money in order to invest in this underclass solves anything.

I say send Teresa May out on the streets, that's distract a lot of them...

So enfit and the others who hate my / elfs/ Ernies analysis two questions.

1) why has this happened?
2) how to prevent it happening again?

Personnally I find the behaviour I'm seeing on the box appalling. No matter what state I was in financially I would never think it was ok to go rob and set things on fire.

Something seriously broken in these peoples minds if they think in any way it is a political protest - as they are hurting their own communities.

Lowlifes.

I have no solution. Maybe national service to try and teach them some discipline and respect!?

1) why has this happened?
2) how to prevent it happening again?

Can you..?

Psx I dont hate

Personnally I find the behaviour I'm seeing on the box appalling. No matter what state I was in financially I would never think it was ok to go [s]rob and set things on fire[/s] [b]be bailed out for utter failure, then rewarded with huge bonuses. And now be threatened with tax cuts.[/b]

Something seriously broken in these peoples minds if they think in any way it is a [s]political protest[/s] [b]decent way to behave[/b] - as they are [s]hurting[/s] [b]smug in[/b] their own communities.

Lowlifes.

I have no solution. Maybe national service to try and teach them some discipline and respect!?

[b]BLOCK WAAARRRR!![/b]

[img] [/img]

The earthquake in Japan recently caused much greater suffering and displaced thousands yet there was no looting.
Hurricane Katrina caused similar damage and had widespread looting in New Orleans.
London and in other cities is seeing similar problems to New Orleans.
What have the japanese got right that we in the west got wrong?
Respect? Discipline? Sense of community spirit? FFS even the yakuza helped to deliver aid to the needy.
It's not because they are poor neglected and needy. They are disrespectful, thieving, opportunistic, lazy, selfish, greedy bastards.

Shock and Hora will resolve this current unrest 😛

Flashbangs optional.

Well said KT1973

erm, not sure if that is some attempt to dig at me? I don't agree with the whole banking bonus situation either.

I really can't say what I want to say. I just can't.

DT78 - Member
erm, not sure if that is some attempt to dig at me? I don't agree with the whole banking bonus situation either.

No, I think it's just the usual cheap retort of "bashabanker". It's very now, don't you know?

I really can't say what I want to say. I just can't.

You want to be butt-****ed by me in every conceivable position? Spit it out man.

If anyone thinks this situation has only come about since the last general election, they are further off the plot than the usual suspects around these parts.

Too few resources that haven't been well enough applied across all social, educational and policing sectors. Too much statistic and target chasing by those sectors has led to where we are now.

That and too many people who believe the definition of 'parenting' stops after the physical act required to initiate children.

So enfit and the others who hate my / elfs/ Ernies analysis two questions
1) why has this happened?
2) how to prevent it happening again?

1 - Ernie is a marxist, he just stops typing before his true solutions are expressed

2 - I don't think anyone yet has a solution to prevent this happening again, but a good starting point would involve rubber bullets, long prison sentences and heavier policing. However I don't see how this justifies RudeFred's ludicrous nonsense

On the plus side, Kate Silverton is looking rather nice on the news right now

I'd also provide Baby oil and some nice Baileys for us to drink.

The earthquake in Japan recently caused much greater suffering and displaced thousands yet there was no looting.
Hurricane Katrina caused similar damage and had widespread looting in New Orleans.
London and in other cities is seeing similar problems to New Orleans.
What have the japanese got right that we in the west got wrong?
Respect? Discipline? Sense of community spirit? FFS even the yakuza helped to deliver aid to the needy.
It's not because they are poor neglected and needy. They are disrespectful, thieving, opportunistic, lazy, selfish, greedy bastards.

Japanese society may be different, but you can also buy schoolgirls panties from vending machines? and they actually gloss over a lot of the crime and depravity in the country, the homelessness and the suicide rates are much higher than the UK.
And lets not forget that hurricane katrina was a very different disaster the the earthquake and tsunami that hit Japan, there was nothing left to loot in Japan.

TandemJeremy - Member

goes back a lot longer TSY - as in the two posts I quoted from Ernie and Elf. We as a society have created an underclass of dienfranchised and alienated youth. See the quotes below.

So - solutions? Redistribution of wealth, end to the deliberate policy of creating a large pool of unemployed, thus a return to (nearly) full employment. Sensible drug laws, reform of the Met, investment in education.

Investment in social work / youth work.

and of course now - regain control of the streets calmly and methodically by using appropriate force by the police.

Still the most sensible stuff posted on here about the riots and how our society got so fracured as to allow this to happen. In order to heal we first must diagnose what went wrong.

So its clear you're suggesting that the government that presided over years of these yoot's upbringings have casued it due to their policies.
Live on benefits, its easier than working and you get as much, if not more pay, especially if you have a few kids.

ELF
Truth is that increasing numbers of people just don't care any more, about their society, their community, and worst of all, themselves.

Very true. If you get something for nothing you don't value it.

Ah ok.

I would be interested to know if anyone (policitican/police/religious leader) has or will have the balls to spoke about the factual demographic of the rioters / protesters.

Racy subject I know....

shopkeepers in Wellingborough and Kettering have been told to lock up and get out by the police, kick off @ 2.00 pm

I'm finding myself falling into a murky middle ground reaction here of agreeing with the rubber bullet water cannon CS gas approach in the short term but aligning myself with the TJ/Ernie/Elf approach in the mid to longer term. I guess it's a bit of a tread softly but carry a big stick mentality.

I don't think deploying the army would be a good idea, partially as we don't really want the government to have mandate to impose martial law for future events. This should stay a Police matter. but also the army have spent the last few years working in an extremely hostile environment and the mental adjustment required to dealing with a domestic situation requiring less lethal responses would be likely be difficult to manage.

As for National service. Every time I've seen a response from the services on this it's pretty negative. Don't really see that we should expect to have professional armed forces and expect them to also be triple up as social workers and Prison guards.

Having followed this thread from the start I don't believe many people have been apologists for the actions of the looters. The non reactionary views are generally put forward as an attempt to understand the factors that lead to these events and not to excuse them. Understand and minimise the contributing factors and you minimise the likelihood of it happening repeatedly in the future.

Is it cheaper and less destructive to society to wait for the crimes to happen then deal with the perpetrators or to try and change our society so that such events don't happen, at least not on the scale that we have seen for the last three nights?

KT1973 - summed up perfectly.

Rudy Giuliani's 'cop on every corner' is what is needed in problem areas. How do you pay for that though?

No way to National Service, I'd have never wanted these dimwits backing me up.

Just an idea on the suitable punishment front....here goes. Prisons no answer as it's be said they just wouldn't care. It's also been said they have nothing to loose (which isn't true) so punishment would mean taking something tangible away from them. And one thing that must be said of these people is that they are very image consious. So is that something that could be taken from them? and would it matter to them?
With community service they seem to be kept out of site, what about putting them right back into sight and stripped of identity. I suppose like a version of the stocks, but human rights compatable.
Good God I am Mr Daily Mail....and there's more! Everywhere I go I see mess and sometimes I think there's a whole workforce on hand that could sort it for free, wether they liked it or not.
I don't know, not one single thing works for everyone. Some folk might bite your hand off for a chance, others would probably turn down a job for life and take a pair of new trainers instead. Everything works in degrees, but wholesale changes for good don't.

The earthquake in Japan recently caused much greater suffering and displaced thousands yet there was no looting.

[url= http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703410604576216293024644156.html ]Not strictly true.[/url]

Although the looting was on a far smaller scale, according to reports.

Interesting point though; what is the mentality that drives people to loot stuff?

Yes, greed is at the core of it, but we should be looking at why people are so greedy? In Africa and New Orleans, I spose most of the looting is driven by a need to secure some sort of capital, in order to have a modicum of economic power. Quite understandable in a 'survival' situation.

The looting here seems to be driven by greed and a 'must have shiny thing' mindset. But it's all about degrees of things; how many on here are in debt with their credit cards etc, for stuff they don't really need? Why not wait until you have the money before you spend it? And how many will fiddle their tax, or buy something from abroad and avoid paying import duty, etc?

And I think there's a woeful lack of actual knowledge and experience of situations where mass hysteria takes place. Not condoning the actions of the looters, but it's very very easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment, and do stuff you normally woon't.

Too many people on here just not interested in trying to understand, as that takes more brain work than simply jerking yer knee and spouting all sorts of what is ultimately defensive vitriol.

Y'know, you're not actually all that different to those doing stuff you find abhorrent, really. As unpleasant and uncomfortable an idea that may be. You work hard to disassociate yourself from those you see as somehow inferior to you, but we're all Human, there's no escaping that.

Interesting that many of those calling for harsh action against the rioters are the same that claim they would willingly break the Law themselves if someone broke into their home, stole their bike, etc....

So its clear you're suggesting that the government that presided over years of these yoot's upbringings have casued it due to their policies.

Yu what?

I suggest it goes back to the late 70s and the last Tory government - the created the mass unemployment as a deliberate policy and then removed much of the support system. A generation or two later we reap the reward of a completely alienated and disenfranchised part of the population. complicity goes to every government since then although labour did make some vague attempts to alleviate the situation.

Live on benefits, its easier than working and you get as much, if not more pay, especially if you have a few kids.

what sort of fantasy world do you live in. Do you know what benefit rates are?

CHF - simply pointing out that being rude and crass, arrogant and above the law, dismissive towards the majority, rewarded by tax payers for failure, taught to work the system for their own gain, and being admired by peers for flaunting material possessions are not traits and behaviors confined to rioting youth.

Can't argue with what this lady is saying. Good on her.

Seriously, you're blaming the Tories, again?

Having seen some of the kids arriving in Ealing last night and walking down my street, my assumption is that the perpetrators there were

Of school, or school leaving age, from out of the area, didn't look particularly poor.

Just opportunistic criminal activity driven by the right weather conditions and having nothing else to do.

Sure there maybe some disaffected youth in Tottenham, and there are poor pockets in Ealing, and they may have been dragged into it, but in the main this is just ****ts who need to be hit over the head by a copper with a big stick ASAP

as that takes more brain work than simply jerking yer knee

Typical defense RudeFred, shout abouse when you have nothing credible

Move along before I arrest you for obstruction

Ok so Now answer question 2 TJ,
(I don't think you're 100% right onq1)

Do you know what benefit rates are?

They are more than what you think they are (IF you are a single female parent).

I did J_me

TandemJeremy

So - solutions? Redistribution of wealth, end to the deliberate policy of creating a large pool of unemployed, thus a return to (nearly) full employment. Sensible drug laws, reform of the Met, investment in education.

Investment in social work / youth work.

and of course now - regain control of the streets calmly and methodically by using appropriate force by the police.

Do you know the cost of childcare?

Do you know what benefit rates are?

They are more than what you think they are (IF you are a [b]single female parent[/b]).

You're trolling, aren't you Hora?

Nobody can be that thick...

Elfin I'm guessing her fella is a Pirate?

http://www.****/news/article-1250993/Single-mum-finds-mansion-net-gets-YOU-pay-7-000-month-rent.html

(is that going to make Elfin cry with anger and get me banned again for upsetting a village idiot?)

😆

Typical defense RudeFred, shout abouse when you have nothing credible

Not credible to you perhaps, but maybe a little more credible than your made-up stories about what your colleague's mum's friend's uncle's mate saw...

Don't see where the 'abuse' is though. Maybe you're just uncomfortable with the truth?

My sister shared a tube carriage with some blokes on their way to do some looting last night - pretty clear that's what they were doing as they were heading that way, wearing hoodies, had scarves/things to hide their faces oh and they were quite openly talking about the fact that's what they were going to do...

Commuting to looting... only in London.

Strikes me that the protesting/rioting and the looting are very different things.

TJ I missed that, nice. And care for the elderly.