Watching grandsons Under 13s cricket match last night . A couple of the lads got themselves in a pickle and nearly got one of them run out . Seeing it coming I called out quick hurry up sort yourselves out .
The " officials" keeping score didn't take kindly , our daughter saw that and told me to keep quiet they weren't happy.
There then followed an explanation, apparently you aren't allowed to say anything negative any time it has to all be positive 🤔One of grandsons teammates said to him " Don't swing at the ball you idiot" that had to be reported back ????
Same in school apparently it's all you've all done very well even if you haven't .No checks and balances for bad behaviour.Im so out of touch it would seem, forum name checks out . But if kids are shielded from reality right through their schooldays is it any wonder when they leave the world outside comes as a shock , some minor " bump in the road" they clearly aren't expecting and boom anxiety triggered .
I'm reminded of the recent programme " Children of the Blitz " the generation before mine and I just wonder how on earth today's kids would begin to cope if god forbid anything like that were to ever happen again .
Resilience is now something we have to teach and address in schools.
It's telling that I have to explain to pupils that for some 30% is ok and for others 70% is not good enough. Everyone expects an A.
Behaviour, as has been noted many times, is not improving.
Had a proper rant about being happy to fail a while back. Included classics such as "why would I employ a car mechanic who is happy not to bother"
Your generation had the easiest of easy rides and now you've decided to criticise the generation who are going to have to live with the hangover from the Dessert Generation's decades long party?
People with masters degrees and good jobs are still living with their parents. This generation's 'bumps in the road' would have been like summiting Everest for you.
Anyway, as far as sport goes, Norway treats kid's sport in a way that would probably send you apoplectic. They don't even allow under-12s to compete (ie, they have competitions but there are no winners and losers and everyone gets a medal).
THEGUARDIAN.COM Doesn't seem to be doing them too much harm.
Old fart yells at children who are not related to him and is surprised that some people don't like it.
What a lot of nonsense.
Here's something you might remember
Failure is so important, and the negative connotations around the word need to change. Life is not a constant stream of successes.
often when asked what is the most important thing to give your kids my answer is always resilience…..
The mental health crisis for young people is real and painful. Let’s not pretend we all have a simple answer.
I’m a teacher in a sixth form college. I see no evidence that our feeder schools aren’t trying to correct poor behaviour.
My best mate is a college lecturer so he sees hundreds of post school kids every year.
He always talks about the noticeable lack of resilience they have relative to our generation (we're late Gen X).
i can't speculate about the causes, but he sees it every single day and it's real
Adults who are not officials yelling negatively from the sidelines at kids playing sport always makes me feel very uncomfortable and wary of the sort of people who feel it's appropriate. It doesn't prepare them for a harsh world (which isn't some random spectator's job anyway), it's just intimidating and stops youth sport being fun and inclusive. Let them be kids. I'm technically a "boomer" (last year of cohort) and most of my friends, including a couple of rugby coaches feel the same way about this.
Driving negativity isn’t going to help them, calling a kid an idiot for not swinging the ball right totally out of order.
He always talks about the noticeable lack of resilience they have relative to our generation (we're late Gen X).
I'll put a 5er on these kids with a "lack of resilience" are happy more rounded people by age 50 than the repressed muppets we all are.
I'll put a 5er on these kids with a "lack of resilience" are happy more rounded people by age 50 than the repressed muppets we all are.
I'd say anyone who was in their 20s anytime between 1990 and 2008 has no right to talk about resilience.
If you could reasonably be considered a young person between the fall of the Berlin wall and the global financial crisis you had a leg up in a way that, to most young people today, must seem like science fiction.
And let's not even talk about the boomers...
On the fence on this. It's complicated - like most things in life are. And people who try to simplify it are not helping.
One one hand I believe adults, especially ones who have to reach back a long way in their memory to relate, are pretty out of touch with what being young is. They look back with rose tinted glasses on their own youth and fail to appreciate aspect of being young today. They cling to limited anecdotical 'evidence' and respond to headlines in the media designed specifically to push their buttons. In reality there are huge numbers of kids with great social and work ethics who are doing great and probably better prepared for the mid twenties and beyond than we all were. They are not as 'buttoned up' and 'repressed' as we all were about their feelings and insecurities but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.
On the other....we do have to acknowledge that things are not going well in certain aspects. The number of kids and young adults not accessing normal life (like mainstream education and the world of work) because of mental health concerns is a massive problem. It's a problem for them and society at large. Unpicking this is going to be huge. Nature/nurture is still a thing and in less that two generations evolution has not played a part so it's not nature. The way WE have brought them up- through education, parenting; what we've exposed them to and the opportunities ahead has made the difference. They are on the roller coaster - we designed it.
Generalisms rarely work well when treated as direct criticism of individuals, but I'm not convinced the current generation of parents are getting it right. They've absolved themselves of responsibility too readily. Empowering your child does not mean ceding all decision making to them. Being their champion does not mean you don't have to have tough conversations with them. We've also probably gone too far with the "level playing field" mantra. One of the hardest things any of us have to hear is "The world is not fair and you've been dealt a crap hand, this is stuff you'll always struggle with, BUT these are the tools to help you make those difficulties less challenging. It's now over to you to use those tools, no one is going to do it for you". Too many kids are getting labels without the complementary toolbox. Being told the things that the label means they'll probably struggle with too often leads to a self fulfilling prophesy. Why would behave in class if you've been told you have ADHD and it's going to be harder for you than others etc etc. You don't build resilience by telling someone "You'll probably be shit at this..." without then adding "...and this is what YOU can do to narrow the gap".
I'd say anyone who was in their 20s anytime between 1990 and 2008 has no right to talk about resilience.
I get your point if you are generalising but "anyone" implies you are not. It shouldn't take much imagination to realise plenty of individuals in that period went through stuff that taught them resilience even if the majority had it a lot better than now.
I'll put a 5er on these kids with a "lack of resilience" are happy more rounded people by age 50 than the repressed muppets we all are.
I'd say anyone who was in their 20s anytime between 1990 and 2008 has no right to talk about resilience.
@BruceWee - could you help me understand this point of view a little more?
From my point of view, this generation fought in Gulf War 1 (1991), Bosnia (1992 - 1995), Iraq (2003 - 2011), Afghanistan (2002- 2014). The early part of this generation were children during the recession of the early 1980s, witnessed the miner's strike, survived the Thatcher and Major Tory years and came of political age during the New Labour years of 1997 onwards.
This is just an 'off the top of my head' summary of things that the generation identified here lived through which could be described as challenging and so I'm curious why the statement would be made that that generation has 'no right to talk about resilience'?
Anyway, as far as sport goes, Norway treats kid's sport in a way that would probably send you apoplectic. They don't even allow under-12s to compete (ie, they have competitions but there are no winners and losers and everyone gets a medal).
10 years ago (roughly), British Cycling removed Youth C, D and E (U12, U10 and U8) from the National Youth Circuit Series. They could still have their own age category of races but there were no Series points, no rankings, no Championships.
It took off SO much pressure. The kids got to learn in a more relaxed environment, the parents weren't as pressured to drive their kids up and down the country to National Series races and it also freed up a lot of the days' calendar to allow longer more challenging racing for the Youth A & B (U16 / U14). Although initially of course, many parents treated it as though the sky was about to fall in.
I do remember a parent who used to turn up to a weekly MTB series and bellow constantly at his kid. He'd stand on one of the high vantage points of the circuit and be yelling across the venue PEDAL HARDER! CHANGE DOWN! GET YOUR WEIGHT BACK! MOVE UP!
His kid would routinely finish the race on the verge of tears, the Dad was an absolute tosser.
At the high school I teach at there is plenty of feedback both positive and negative.
Here is your test mark, here is how to improve, come along and get some more help at this time.
There is help to keep kids in school who had disappeared from my local high school by the time I got to standard grades by 1995. Kids who were expelled, excluded or just don't show up are much more likely to get a decent education now than then.
Which includes the resilience to actually stick at school and finish it .
I get your point if you are generalising but "anyone" implies you are not. It shouldn't take much imagination to realise plenty of individuals in that period went through stuff that taught them resilience even if the majority had it a lot better than now.
Individuals can talk about resilience from their own point of view and how it relates to their own experiences. This thread started with a blanket, 'Young people aren't resilient because...'
could you help me understand this point of view a little more?
From the 1990 to 2008, the cold war had been 'won' which seemingly removed the threat of imminent nuclear annihilation. Thatcherism and Reganism had sold the family silver so people could enjoy the benefits at the expense of future generations (the generations who are now apparently 'not resilient' and 'overly anxious').
De-regulation meant that credit was easily available and an economic party ensued, the bill for which didn't arrive until much later and the overly-anxious generation of young people are still paying the price for.
In addition to that, the idea of a job-for-life might have been on the way out but you could at least assume, if you set your sights on a career path, some semblance would still be available in 20 years. These days kids have no idea what will be a viable career next year, nevermind in a couple of decades.
On top of all that, they know there is a good chance they are going to be around to experience the full effects of climate change. And, of course, war is coming back into fashion in a big way.
My generation (elder-millennial) had it incredibly easy compared to the current crop of youngsters. It doesn't mean my individual circumstances didn't require some resilience, but from a generational point of view there is simply no comparison.
And remember, this discussion was started by someone making a generational observation. And this is coming from a member of the single most privileged generation in history. Speaking purely in generational terms, this is a generation that has no understanding of resilience compared to those that came before them and those that came after them.
You really have swallowed the KOOLAID Brucewee.
This thread started with a blanket, 'Young people aren't resilient because...'
And you've effectively responded with 'old people aren't resilient because...' with this
anyone who was in their 20s anytime between 1990 and 2008 has no right to talk about resilience.
Neither of these are true. There's a discussion to be had here and it could be an interesting thread, but sweeping generalisations aren't helpful imo
@Convert - best post of the thread so far. "I'd have said "it's complicated" you said that a lot more eloquently!
Well, Convert just saved me a lot of typing.
Im so out of touch it would seem, forum name checks out
Correct.
It's not just you though, and it's not a new phenomenon. I still hear "bloody Millennials" occasionally, and Millennials are now in their 30s to mid-40s. My gran used to tell me "you don't know you're born!" half a century ago.
Boomers / Gen X are quick to wax lyrical about how great it was in the 1960s/70s/80s(*) and then in the next breath bitch about the future generation because they've got it too easy. Well... which is it? These are mutually exclusive claims, pick one.
I'm increasingly of the mind that one of the drivers is jealousy. We resent the young for being young, for making all the same mistakes we made because we know better. "If I were your age, I wouldn't be doing that!" - except, you would, because you'd be their age rather than a bitter, cynical gimmer(**) shouting from the sidelines.
Because if kids today are failing then whose failure is that, exactly? They're dealing with a shit sandwich of our creation and then we're blaming them for it rather than taking responsibility. Our kids aren't growing up how we'd like so... well, what are we doing about that, then? Longing for the return of capital punishment, shillings and smallpox?
Give it thirty years or so, those kids will be on the Quanternet making the same arguments. The technology will be different but Generation Beta will now be getting it in the neck, "when I was your age we didn't have a Terabit connection and used to have to watch videos with our eyes!" Plus ca change.
(* - there was a big long post about this on STW a day or two back, citing things like a reduced life expectancy as one of the reasons it was great back in the 70s.🤷♂️)
(** - don't take this personally, I'm referring to all of us)
Neither of these are true. There's a discussion to be had here and it could be an interesting thread, but sweeping generalisations aren't helpful imo
Sure, but the OP chose to frame the discussion the way they did.
Generational comparisons are, by their nature, the most sweeping. They encompass all genders, races, socio-economic backgrounds, etc. If you dig down and look at more detail you'll find that different generations experience things very differently.
Like I said though, the OP chose to state his case the way he did, by zooming out all the way and comparing generations. He also decided his generation was 'better' than the current generation.
I think his reasoning and conclusions are bollocks and kind of insulting since they don't acknowledge his generation's position of privilege. If everyone agreed then maybe a more interesting discussion could be had but I'm still seeing plenty of responses endorsing the OP's viewpoint so...
I guess a better discussion will have to wait until someone can frame it in a better way.
It wasn't old fart it was another kid.
You're not supposed to actually read the OP. Just hang on and wait to see which direction the outrage bus is heading and hop on for the ride.
If everyone agreed then maybe a more interesting discussion could be had
If everyone agreed, there'd be no discussion to be had surely?
I agree with you mostly btw, even though I'm a boomer, I disagree hugely with the OP. Different generations have different challenges. The current generation of kids handle so many things way, way better than mine did, but they are struggling with others. That's the chat to be had I think, not why one cohort is better or worse overall because that's delusional bollocks. I'm not saying you are doing that btw, but these threads nearly always end up there, which is a shame.
That's the chat to be had I think, not why one cohort is better or worse overall because that's delusional bollocks.
I think the world has changed enough that direct comparisons are meaningless.
I was in my 20's in the 1990's.
I went to a "good" school. If you were dyslexic the teachers hit you with a stick. If you showed autistic traits the teachers hit you with a stick, if you were gay or even looked a bit gay the other kids would beat the crap out of you, then you all got hit with a stick for fighting. If you were black you were openly bullied, often by the teachers. There was open misogyny, racism, homophobia and transphobia on mainstream TV and it was never challenged, just accepted. The unemployment rate in 1990 was 9.9%. Many of us struggled with parents who were brought up by those highly traumatised by the war and that trauma transcended generations as there was no counselling support.
Sure I could buy a house at 3.5 times my annual salary at the age of 25, but then outside of big cities and southern England you still can*. The privilege of being in your 20's in this period really only extended to white, straight, employed males.
Times change. There's pros and cons with each generation, even without the stick I'd hate to be at school now with social media and on-line bullying. Some people my age went to University for free and bought houses cheaply but plenty didn't and are still struggling now. I really don't think there was a golden generation, my generation had freedoms and a simpler life that kids today can only dream about but there was no support if you were struggling at all.
I work with lots of kids. Many are great, some are not so great and some are a disaster. And that's been the same since forever.
*min wage is 12.71. 40 hrs a week is £26.5K, 3.5x this is £92.5K, nice 2 bed flats in my home town in Scotland start at £90k. Average wage in the area is £37k. My 25 year old step daughter waits on tables in a mid range restaurant and with tips earns around £35k. She's looking at flats around the £110k mark and there's plenty of choice.
I'm reminded of the recent programme " Children of the Blitz " the generation before mine and I just wonder how on earth today's kids would begin to cope if god forbid anything like that were to ever happen again .
I've seen swathes of young men and women deal with adverse conditions and situations that would shatter your myopic viewpoint.
Yeah, there's some absolute wet wipes about. But that's true of every generation, you're a sterling example of yours. But there are also many tough, switched on kids who, I have not doubt, would rise to any challenge presented them.
He also decided his generation was 'better' than the current generation.
I think his reasoning and conclusions are bollocks and kind of insulting since they don't acknowledge his generation's position of privilege.
I don't disagree but, every generation thinks this. His "reasoning and conclusions" may well be bollocks but it is widespread. I expect there would be a very different conversation unfolding if we crossposted the OP onto Pistonheads.
The privilege of being in your 20's in this period really only extended to white, straight, employed males.
As a white cis-gender heterosexual male it's always good to be reminded when I'm taking an overly white cis-gender heterosexual male outlook on life so thanks for reminding me.
Absolutely, life for women and minorities is better now than when we were growing up. Not yet good enough, imo, but better.
However, if you are a white cis-gender heterosexual 18 year old male today you are worse off than if you were an 18 year old twenty to forty years ago. And for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the improvements for women and minorities, because the issues that are making like worse and anxiety inducing for young white men are shared by all young people.
I honestly think there was a golden period post-war. Massive rebuilding, technological advancement, growing populations meant you had an economy where success was the default. Not only that, but it seemed like there was an effort to make safety nets (the NHS and the welfare state) that meant there was less chance of being left behind.
That kind of growth can't last forever and the decisions taken in order to keep the party going after things slowed down directly led to many of the problems we are seeing today.
min wage is 12.71. 40 hrs a week is £26.5K, 3.5x this is £92.5K, nice 2 bed flats in my home town in Scotland start at £90k. Average wage in the area is £37k. My 25 year old step daughter waits on tables in a mid range restaurant and with tips earns around £35k. She's looking at flats around the £110k mark and there's plenty of choice.
What is she paying for rent at the moment...
The average price of a 2 bed flat in Scotland is between £150 and 200 thousand. In our former mining village in Midlothian there's nothing less than £190000.
£60k for a 1 bed flat is the cheapest property locally. 2 bed starts at £85k, cheapest that you could move straight into without work is a 2 bed at £100k. 35min rail commute to Edinburgh.
But..
It is Fife so there's that.
*Most expensive is a 5 bed at offers over £825k
if you were gay or even looked a bit gay the other kids would beat the crap out of you, then you all got hit with a stick for fighting.
1980's: the teens are calling everything gay.
2000's: the teens aren't sure they should really be calling things gay.
2020's: the teens are calling everything gay again but in a positive way this time.
I'd say anyone who was in their 20s anytime between 1990 and 2008 has no right to talk about resilience.
Why?
Why?
It would help if you could tell me what part of the explanation for the 'why' of this statement isn't covered by my replies to the people who already asked.
Have you read the thread?
I can't help but notice many people seem to be fine with the OP making a sweeping generalisation about the younger generation's inferiority due to their lack of resilience but have a problem with having a sweeping generalisations made about them.
That's not very resilient, is it?
I can't help but notice many people seem to be fine with the OP making a sweeping generalisation about the younger generation's inferiority due to their lack of resilience but have a problem with having a sweeping generalisations made about them.
That's not very resilient, is it?
I think most are fine with neither. Both are wrong, both are unnecessary.
I'm not sure I claimed today's kids were inferior ? I was only suggesting that if all they get fed is positivity it might be a shock when there is the occasional bump in the road ? I was also questioning the rationale of such policies but if there are occasions when constructive criticism is used then that surely helps , I was suggesting the system MAY be wrong but obviously I'm no expert .
I know my schooldays weren't the best, bullying because I was fat , teachers that would now be on some kind of register, whether I was unknowingly building up resilience who knows ?I'm not suggesting for one minute we go back there only that maybe there's another way?
Have you read the thread
You seem really angry? Didn't you develop the right coping mechanisms when you were young?
Under 13's. The OP went to an under 13's cricket match. He didn't have a kid there, he's a grandad. He yelled at kids.
Just learn some manners around other people's kids. This isn't a political / state-of-the-nation thing. You were just a rude bloke.
I'm not suggesting for one minute we go back there only that maybe there's another way?
What you appear to be suggesting is that mental health issues faced by young people are as a result of them not being told that they're shit often enough. Your choice of language gives you away. Hey, perhaps if they spent a bit more time at the school of hard knocks then it might toughen them up a bit.
You might not want to "go back there" but this is exactly the same justification trotted out when schools still had the cane. Spare the rod, spoil the child.
You were just a rude bloke.
We have no way of knowing this, we weren't there. But it's not hard to see why Competitive Dad shouting from the crowd is verboten, as per the rugby sign posted earlier.
You seem really angry? Didn't you develop the right coping mechanisms when you were young?
I'm not sure how asking if you've read the thread when you don't seem to have indicates anger, but no, as it happens I didn't learnt he right coping mechanisms when I was young, growing up as I did with undiagnosed ADHD.
I probably appear very resilient as I learned to mask like a pro, but a better solution would have been to meet me where I was rather than forcing me to adapt to a world that doesn't really suit me. Masking isn't resilience, but to those who don't know any better it appears to be.
I should probably be ignored on this thread. There have been plenty measured intelligent reasonable responses but older generations slagging off the younger generations is like catnip for me.
I can't help but feel there are a few boomers/Gen-X on this thread who scroll Facebook, come across the 'Hard times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times' meme, nod sagely to themselves, and hit the share button.
The Hard times meme is bollocks, but like most things that are bollocks there is perhaps a grain of truth.
I just find it hilarious that so many boomer/gen-X men seem to buy into this idea that they are the strong men built by the hard times. Sorry to break it to you, but your parents were the strong men who made the good times. Which would make you the...
Like I said, these generation slagging statements are bollocks (and that 100% includes mine) but for the people who buy into it, the fact they don't even recognise that they are the weak men who created the hard times in this scenario is hilarious.
I remember in the 1980s when we had 3 million unemployed.You wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds Bruce.
