Whats your definition of a steady pace? How far did you travel in the 15 minutes.
Was just over a mile. Nice and easy. 1.2 mile, 14 minutes.
Its very easy to tell when you've over done it (either too long or too fast). Day one after it'll hurt, day two will be worse and day three things should start to ease.
Also no expert but... If your relatively fit then I'd be less concerned about cardio fitness and more about getting your legs used to running without an injury. Slowly build up the time your moving for without pushing the pace. I'd look more at time rather than distance. Don't run too often. When you can comfortably do half an hour without stopping then add a little more pace (i..e slightly more distance in the same time). Mix it up with shorter (time)/ faster and longer/slower runs. Most importantly listen to your body.
Whats your expectation of a brisk 5k pace? 30mins, 25mins?
Who's out and about racing etc. this weekend?
I'm doing Dukeries 30 (the wife is also doing it) on Saturday around the Walesby, Clumber park, North Notts area.
It's my first foray above 26.2 so I'm interested to see how I fair. Apparently the actual distance is more like 31 than 30.
It's either this or the White Peak half next Saturday as my 'half or above race' for this month. Currently 4 down, 8 to go...
I’d go with feel to be honest, if you can go a bit longer and not suffer any issues in the days after, I’d just keep adding a sensible amount of distance on. I’m definitely no expert btw!
Nor am i, apart from having been on the wrong side of it. The trouble, IMHE, is that on an activity like running that puts substantial loads (3x the loads from walking, some say) onto muscles and joints that may not yet be strong enough to support them is that as fatigue sets in the risk of injury increases. And that injury in my case was pretty binary, going from 'achy but pleasurable' (that nice ache you get from knowing you've done something) to 'POP!' within a couple of strides.
Hence running on feel can be great but I would strongly suggest a slow increase like Couch to 5K even if it does seem ridiculously easy on the aerobic load to start with just to make sure the mechanics don't break down before the engine.
Hence running on feel can be great but I would strongly suggest a slow increase like Couch to 5K even if it does seem ridiculously easy on the aerobic load to start with just to make sure the mechanics don’t break down before the engine.
In this case, I'd agree, your pace is suggesting you're either really taking it easy, or C25k is about your best option.
Whats your expectation of a brisk 5k pace? 30mins, 25mins?
No idea, wouldn't know what a brisk pace is in terms of times. Just that level where you're not going all out but feel like you're getting a good workout.
Hence running on feel can be great but I would strongly suggest a slow increase like Couch to 5K even if it does seem ridiculously easy on the aerobic load to start with just to make sure the mechanics don’t break down before the engine.
That's the kind of approach I'm taking, but still hoping not to spend 3 months getting my body into a shape where I can actually do this running stuff properly. I anticipate that being very frustrating!
The stuff about fatigue makes sense - I will certainly bear that in mind.
Tbh I found one of the hardest things was knowing what was a twinge to just carry on and train through, or what is something you should stop and rest up a bit. The good lady started running about the same time as me, and ended up doing far too much, resulting in some serious delayed onset muscle pain in her thighs. Ended up having to stop for about 3 weeks, it's all a learning.
also - one man's easy is another man's hard so don't get held up by times. I think that's why C25K is good because at least to start with it has you running to time, not to distance and speed at this stage is irrelevant, get the body used to running for 20 minutes before it worries about how far that equates to.
but still hoping not to spend 3 months getting my body into a shape where I can actually do this running stuff properly. I anticipate that being very frustrating!
Not as frustrating as being in rehab for the last four weeks waiting for this calf strain to heal. Promise!
If any of you lot are doing the Cotswold Way run this weekend, say hello to my Mrs. It's her first multi-day wotsit, she's pretty excited.
Some proper runners out this weekend eh, me I’m still building muscle for my next massacre on the S’th Downs..
Tonight run was:
There was an old bloke who swallowed two flies.. I don’t know why he swallowed two flies, perhaps he’ll die..
Good luck and good legs for all those out hacking it.
Who’s out and about racing etc. this weekend?
No racing for me this weekend but going to try to get 2 big days in the hills.
Will be trying to get a short steep run in to prepare for race next weekend. I'd also agree with Jonv's recommendation for something like C25K. It's an excellent way to build up gradually and get all of you used to running without doing too much. I started with that a couple of years ago.
But it's amzing what progress you can make with a bit of proper training - after 4 weeks of more regular running I went out and did my fastest ever 5k last night, without feeling destroyed this morning. Really pleased with that, hopefully it's a good sign for next week!
Had another bash at Arrow Valley parkrun this morning for the first time since my (wake-up call) 25.19 in January. My previous PB for parkrun was 21.37 in Gunnersbury in London around 5 years ago. Managed a 21.07 new PB this morning - really wasn’t expecting it - didn’t warm up properly and felt properly shit after the first 500m but after 2k when the voice in my ear told me I was still averaging 4.15/k, I decided to throw myself at it a bit. I’m a happy runner today. 🙂
New park run PB this morning at 26:47. 53 secs faster than my previous so pretty chuffed! Also read somewhere that Lloyd park is reckoned to be the hardest park run course in London hehe. So feeling pretty happy. Think I'm gonna try and start stepping up to some longer runs now. Used to really enjoy 10km.
Good "run" today, although a large amount of it was walking. Possibly the most technical mountain run I've done in Madrid, took nearly 7 hours to do 40km! Fun though, and good training for the upcoming events.
53 secs faster than my previous
👍
Good “run” today, although a large amount of it was walking.
Funny you say that...
Did a bit of a Torridon Munro / Corbett round yesterday. 36k, 3800m and about 9hrs. Like you say, not really running but a brilliant day out.
Moar QECP hacks for me, the other day and that felt really good and today felt really good as well... in fact I blasted the blue down hill like I was on a bike 🤪
Good to see the cyclefest going on, loads of folks riding and milling around and plenty of on lookers too.
The other days hack I passed a bloke running with a 15kg filled rucksack on his back, I often wonder “why” and he wasn’t in combats either.. it was warm, he looked “hot”. I met him in the car park and asked him why, he said I’m not in training for anything.. if I ran with a 15kg rucksack I think I’d die.
Unless you're in the army (and even then I'm not sure) there ain't no point in running with a 15kg sack.
We have the Army Barracks near Liss, I wondered if he was from there.. he didn’t say he was though.
Any updates on the guys that did the Avon Tyrell runfest yet ??
First ultra done - tick
Got lost - tick
Found my way again - tick
Got lost again - tick
Found my way again - tick
Will I do another - errrrr, probably. Think that's maybe a tick then.
Dukeries 30/40 in and around Sherwood forest / Clumber park.
A great, mainly off-road route with great scenery and great organisation.
White peak half next Saturday....
Got back from Enduroman last night and already waiting for entries to open for next year. Had a great time, wonderful event full of amazing people in a perfect location.
I was doing the "Run To Max 24hr" (which is run as many or as few laps of the 1.1 mile course in a 24 hour period), and up until the week before I had no goal for mileage. I was down there to crew for a friend of mine as she attempted the Continuous Triple Iron triathlon, and intended to use the Run To Max to do some training runs in between feeding her and to keep myself active. A "mate" of mine however decided that I ought to try to make up for my DNF at Country To Capital last year, so I was given a target of 42 miles, with no training for it (longest run in recent months has been 10 miles). This was going to be fun.
Initially my plan was to wait until Claire had finished on the bike, probably late Saturday night, before I started running, but she hit some real problems in the swim and decided that triathlon is a stupid idea, so she swapped to the Run To Max 48hr. This meant I wasn't really needed for crewing duties other than the occasional brew so I started my run Saturday afternoon. My plan was to more or less keep going until I hit the 42 miles, then stop for some kip before deciding if I wanted to do any more.
The first few laps were really quite enjoyable. The loop is a mix of different types of trail, some gravelly, some softer ground in the woods, some sections covered in roots, a short bit of tarmac, and what seem like some quite gentle ups and downs at first. No point trying to be a hero so got into a set pattern of run-walk from lap 2 onwards, reinforced by advice from the much more experienced guys on the course. The first half marathon seemed to tick by quite quickly, and after a stop in the main house for the evening meal the marathon distance didn't seem to take too long to reach either, and from then on every step forward was a new distance PB. As the light started to fade I got the head torch on and set off to run a few more laps before it got dark, as I'd made the decision that once nightfall came it would be mostly walking in order to avoid the risk of falls (plus I really wasn't trained for running for this length of time, and I've got Lakesman triathlon next month...). On one lap, approaching the highest point of the course, there was the most amazing sunset resulting in a stunning view out over the New Forest, so a couple of us had to stop briefly to admire it. From then on was where it started to feel tough. 30 miles onwards it was just a slog. When I got to 32 miles, I initially thought "10 miles, on a slow training run that's a couple of hours, so not long", but then I had to remind myself I was far slower at this point, and that it was going to be more like 4 hours. My feet were killing me, the rest of my legs weren't far behind, the initially "quite pleasant" course was now an absolute nightmare, the slight inclines were mountains, and the small roots were huge obstacles. Reaching 10k to go it was even worse. Someone helpfully said it's just 2 parkruns, but my last 2 parkruns were both hungover nightmares full of pain and misery! But after 13 hours and 46 minutes I finished my 39th lap, 42.9 miles done. Very slow, but got it done. I headed off to bed pretty sure that would be it for me, and sure enough when I woke up after a grand total of 3 hours sleep (the joys of camping) I knew I was handing my timing chip in and taking it easy for the rest of the weekend.
All the other competitors were absolutely brilliant and incredibly supportive, including some seriously strong and inspiring endurance athletes. Everyone's support crew helped to keep everyone else going, and the organisers made such an effort to make everyone feel like a vital part of the event. On the topic of support crew, I had the invaluable assistance of my new other half who has done quite a bit of crewing on ultras and without her it would have taken me much longer. She took everything out of my hands other than focusing on putting one foot in front of the other. She decided when I could stop, how long for, had hot drinks ready and food ready for me and told me to get on with it. One lap when I was struggling she cheerfully said "I've got some pills here that might help you" which made my face light up, until she added "They're called MTFU pills, take 2 and get on with it".
Plan for next year is to go back and do the Continuous Double Iron triathlon. Another 10 miles on the run course after a 4.8 mile swim and 224 miles on the bike, what could possibly go wrong?
Awesome 💪💪💪💪💪💪👍👍👍👍👍🤩
Fab write up 👍
Told you it was a great event, and that the support from everyone was fabulous...
Great to hear your thoughts and putting some effort in getting it down in words, really brings the event to life.
Thanks. Really is a superb event, the setup with the turning circle is absolutely brilliant for the end of each lap, even during the small hours there was always a handful of people about to cheer you on.
Woo hoo, just been offered a place at the Jura Fell Race having given up hope. It's a week on Saturday but I think I'm in better shape than last year so we'll see. Slightly shambolic under the new organiser. It seems lots of people were given places then pulled out, perhaps partly due to a typically sensational Red Bull web article about it (Top 10 UK trail races to do before you die or such like). Still, all's well that ends well.
Had my running technique analysed by a physio last night to try to track down the cause of my peroneal tendinopathy. I run 30-40 miles a week and he observed that I heel-strike, over-stride, have pathetic hip control, and my knees knock.
His recommendation was to focus on landing mid-foot. Seemed like a sensible plan and I ran back from the health centre last night (about six miles), trying not to clobber my heels.
Fast-forward 24 hours and I can barely walk. Has anyone here tried to go from heelstrike to midfoot strike? At the moment I can just about get between the kitchen and living room while mincing like Captain Jack Sparrow, and I have blisters on my toes for the first time in years. 🙁
I'm actually quite a fast runner for my age (18:00 5K) and these feel like big changes. Cadence already up there at 180-200 spm. Is there anything else I can do to make this an easier transition?
*hobbles slowly away from computer*
Ha! No flipping idea but feel your pain.
I just ran from the farm to Stainburn Forest (what’s left of it) around (what’s left of it) and back.. now my shins hurt 😜
Night night 🕺
So Ladies and Gents, as you probably aren't aware I turn 50 this year. Now I am sure you were all going to club together and buy me malt but I have a better,easier idea.
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/stuart-donald50
I'm nowhere near a proper runner compared to you 42 milers / 18 min 5K'ers and so on, but I'm steadily getting back into it (despite some overdoing it setbacks)
I only do a couple of runs a week, and I think I need to get to at least 3/week even if they are all only 5K give or take as a means of building up volume without overstretching my muscular capability for now, as it's then when i seem to pull stuff. One run is my weekly shop run, which is normally a choice between a 1-2 mile absolute beginners run, and a 5-8K usually longer one for improvers. I've been sticking to the shorter ones, or the longer one with my own short cut if the short is too short while I've been rehabbing, and so far so good.
But this week, instead of a normal run we went to the park and did some intervals. 'Crocodiles' - running in a line around a circuit with back sprinting to front on repeat, followed by hill sprint repeats. I'm really starting to get into it again now (albeit don't quite trust this calf on full-gas mode yet so my sprints were more like tempo+ with jogged recoveries)
What do the experts think? Just up the mileage (and does the 10% rule apply when volumes are as low as mine are current) or is it worth adding some faster stuff already, even if I don't have a particularly big base yet (but decent aerobic fitness from biking?)
Nice one Durhambiker - Some good mental strength to run round in circles for than long !
This is more my cup of tea, starting this weekend.- http://live.opentracking.co.uk/capewrath18/
If the weather is OK, they are in for a treat.
"But this week, instead of a normal run we went to the park and did some intervals. ‘Crocodiles’ – running in a line around a circuit with back sprinting to front on repeat, followed by hill sprint repeats. I’m really starting to get into it again now (albeit don’t quite trust this calf on full-gas mode yet so my sprints were more like tempo+ with jogged recoveries)"
This is "proper" training. Its is basically interval training which is still the most effective way of improving fitness. If you dont have confidence in your calf yet then just build them slowly. When you are confident they should really be close to flat out to get benefits and you should keep your recoveries short. Its all relative to the length but treat this as your quality session.
In terms of building up it depends what you want to achieve. If you want to get as fit as you can then you simply need to increase to around 6 days per week and 60+ mpw. This may not be for you, if not then try to run more days but lower intensity. You will start to develop fitness from this with a lower risk of injury.
I’d agree with surfer (not that he knows much) theotherjonv, little & often - I used to find, doing 2 per week, I felt a bit under pressure to put distance in I suppose. So I’d just do the “go out and run” (which in itself is not a bad thing - better than doing nothing) but find my body was just replying with “you can **** off if you think I’m doing this 15k faster than we did last week...”
So since January our little group of 2-then-3 have been doing little & often - better 30-45 minutes of intervals, pyramids or sprintervals than an hour of running. I’m not fast, just a good bit faster than I started.
Last weekend was a parkrun PB of 21.07 and this morning was an Ashton Court parkrun PB of 21.40 (I may have mentioned how it’s 2.5k uphill to start before...have I mentioned that?). But I ran my fastest mile this year this morning (6.05) and fastest 2 miles (13.21) - none of that is “fast” but it’s bloody fast for me.
Those parkrun times are down from 25.19 and 24.50 respectively. This has all been achieved with interval training (and a bit of weight loss - but that comes with interval training and a bit of dietary care anyway). So useful, little, often is the key.
12k in open Yorkshire farmland in the sunshine (and nettles)
😎😎😎🔥🔥🔥🔥
@spin - well done, Jura is one of the fell running classics and a great weekend. Those bucket lists are a right pain especially when there's limited places. The previous organiser of the Jura rang me once about a friend who'd asked for an entry as she didn't know his pedigree, it's annoying when places get taken up (and not used) by those who haven't done the groundwork.
cheers, will gradually up the number and duration without worrying much about speed, and then add maybe one more structured session of intervals or speed work in a few weeks time once I feel I'm over these niggles.
The previous organiser of the Jura rang me once about a friend who’d asked for an entry as she didn’t know his pedigree,
We had it pretty good under the last organiser as he's in the same club so I suspect just gave us all places!
Nice wee local hill race today the 'Fyrish 3 Monuments'. Most sociable with everyone just sitting around in the sun afterwards.
Its is basically interval training which is still the most effective way of improving fitness.
Seemingly very little conclusive scientific research available to support this:
A couple of studies for perusal:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11772161
"Further examination of the biochemical and physiological adaptations which accompany different HIT programmes, as well as investigation into the optimal HIT programme for eliciting performance enhancements in highly trained athletes is required."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4657417/
"The results suggest that although HIIT protocols are time efficient, they are not superior to conventional exercise training in sedentary young adults."
For the record, I'm not saying [High intensity] interval training etc doesn't work - I just couldn't find any independent [i.e. not trying to sell something] statistically significant, peer reviewed, 'scientific' research to support it ... and I know how keen 'Surfer' is on having 'scientific' evidence to support an argument! 😉
Took my 7 years old lad to the local park run Saturday, but not the junior one... the full 5k.
He didn't have footy training and the weather was lovely so I thought why not? If we walk a few times no worries. But I purposely didn't say a thing about seeing how far we'd get or telling him don't worry if you want to walk... Didn't want to put him under any pressure.
Now bare in mind this park run isn't a 2 and a half laps of the local playing field.... it's a pretty damn hilly beast, with 78m of ascent, around a country park.
He didn't walk once !! ... in fact he didn't even look close to wanting to walk. He powered up the last "Heartbreak" hill and still had lots in the tank for a long sprint finish.... Coming in at 28:57.
But the time doesn't matter, it was his attitude that I was so proud of.... Determination and confidence.
Wish I could bottle it .. I'm sure in the future he 'll need a heavy dose of one or the other.
Oh and I had a decent "running" weekend as well ... result are still provisional but think I've qualified for (age group) OCR world champs.
That's a brilliant time for a 7 year old Ro5ey, bravo!.
Did my first ParkRun last Saturday in a time of 28.14. Went again on Saturday and did it in 26.21.
Aiming for <25mins next week now I am getting a grip on pacing it correctly.
Saturday’s Ashton Court parkrun was “won” by a JM11-14 in 17.45. 😮
Despite being on the reserve list I didn't get an entry to the Highgate Night of the 10,000m PBs, but did head up to spectate in the evening. Mens race was quite something, with Alex Yee, Andy Vernon and Chris Thompson battling it out to be top Brit. Yee had the edge at the end, having made a break with about 200 to go, but Vernon and Tommo were reeling him in at the end and all finished within about a second. First time 3 Brits have gone under 28 minutes in one race since 1983 I think I read. Nice little nocturnal jog home to Wimbledon after the racing meant I had clocked up my 100km for the week before Sunday so could take the day off 🙂
What are you training towards now TF?
Saturday’s Ashton Court parkrun was “won” by a JM11-14 in 17.45.
Yeah, last week I was overtaken at the end of my second (of three) laps in Harrogate by a kid going down the finishers tunnel - he couldn't have been more than 13 and there was only probably three or four other people ahead of him.
:-O
