Thoughts are with the folk who lost family and friends..and all those working on it. BBC footage looked like a nightmare.
Jeezo why do these things always need to turn into a "I know best" contest on here?
excellent, the moral minority get to close down another thread.
no one's being disrepectful, no one has come on said that they have relatives involved and that they're personally offended. people are just discussing a tragedy in which people have died. we talk about iraq, people have died there too, should we stop talking about that ?
things are starting to get a little out of hand on here.
It's not a wonder people are leaving this frigging forum in droves.
excellent, the moral minority get to close down another thread.no one's being disrepectful, no one has come on said that they have relatives involved and that they're personally offended. people are just discussing a tragedy in which people have died. we talk about iraq, people have died there too, should we stop talking about that ?
things are starting to get a little out of hand on here.
+1 billion
If it is true this was started by someone joining the carriageway too slowly and kicking off the chain of last minute braking I wouldn't be surprised... There seems to be an increase in bullying from drivers on slips joining dual carriageways/motorways. People seem to be forgetting about the give way to the right approach and they think they can simply join regardless.
I tend to think there's been a bit of a increase in these sorts of things now we've largely replaced men in hats with yellow boxes. Indicators, road manners, distance (probably a factor here), texting etc. Can't be managed by a yellow box.
I do quite a lot of motorway miles and from what I've seen most near misses involving slip roads are caused by people not confident enough to join the motorway at the appropriate speed. Basically treating the slip road as a give way junction and causing vehicles to slam on and try to swerve.
Boblo you are so right
The amount of people whom think they have the right of way to come out
whilst its a give way line is beyond me then the wrist actions that follow
when they are so in the right 😯
Driving mainly on the A13 is one in a million beyond reality some times.
Such a tragic incident, one which sadly i was close to less than an hour before it happened.
I was in nearby fields walking at around 8pm,, this was less than a mile away from the incident. At that time visibility was very poor, my head torch lit up the wall of fog like a white sheet in front of me. I could see at best 5 metres in front of me, my location was at the same level as the motorway so would assume it was as bad there.
I was away from that area at the time of the incident so can't comment on the conditions over on the M5, but in town it was still extremely foggy.
At the time of the incident a nearby firework display was coming to a close, the display was very close to the M5.
My speculation based on conditions out there and the behaviour of people is thus.
Vision impaired on the M5 due to thick fog.
The nearby firework displays grand finale, is seen from the M5 through the mirk, as a bright flashing area, lots of colour, but only as a flashing colourful haze.
Drivers distracted by this haze, begin to bunch up, panic breaking ensues, lorries jack knife from heavy braking, inevitable carnage begins.
We all see the effects of rubber necking on the motorways, it's stupidly dangerous during normal conditions, add poor viability and inappropriate speeds into the mix and this shit happens.
A friend just phoned me in shock as she'd just had to pull over after a driver in front of her, rubber necked at the news crews, etc, then panic braked as he'd crept up on the vehicle in front of him, the knock on affect was and maybe is a further accident..
Stay safe out there peeps, it's full of crazy mindless drivers.
Thoughts are with all those involved, i hear of the horrific tales from the scene,children screaming, the heat from the flames being to intense for the first on the scene to be able to help. Them just standing helpless, hearing the panic and the pain.
The sound of the choppers and sirens through the night as the hero's work tirelessly to do whatever they could. Amazing people.
And finally to those stuck in traffic, waiting for it to clear, no doubt moaning and cursing about having messed up their evenings due to the delay. Spare a thought you people, you night was nothing by comparison.
Sharki.
althepal FTW
R.I.P to those lost.
Accident on type of road nobody is taught to drive on as a standard shocker.
The test is wrong. It teaches people to satisfy a ticksheet, not to demonstate full control of a vehicle in different scenarios. Having said that I dare say motorway pile-ups still happen in Finland.
Very well said Sharki,
Thankfully, these things appear to be very rare in the UK these days. Thoughts with the families of those involved.
Now if A_A and other idiots want to pick a fight about speeding, please **** off and do so somewhere else
From driving that section of motorway a fair bit, it always seems to be prone to bunching and stop start traffic. As usual I doubt it will change anything, give it a few weeks, maybe an inquiry and it will be forgotten
Accident on type of road nobody is taught to drive on as a standard shocker.The test is wrong. It teaches people to satisfy a ticksheet, not to demonstate full control of a vehicle in different scenarios.
100% agree. My mum wouldn't even let me out to college in my car until I'd done the Pass+ course. Granted it's not the be all and end all, but I spent a couple of hours driving up and down the M1/M18/A1M with the instructor talking me through pretty much everything that was happening. Compare this to my uni housemate who, afaik, still won't use a motorway because she's too scared. Maybe confidence was a massive factor in someone pulling onto the carriage way at too slow a speed - if that is what happened...
Why start a post like this? And why allow yourself to argue about trivia?
Thoughtless, ghoulish and unnecessary.
the hero's work tirelessly to do whatever they could. Amazing people.
well said.
my thoughts are with everyone involved with and effected by last nights events.
Only just heard about this.. Truely awful! 🙁
Just called my Ex to make sure friends and family who usually attend the carnival with their kids and travel home via that stretch of the M5 are safe, thankfully they are.
My thoughts are with the friends and families of all those involved 😥
althepal FTWR.I.P to those lost.
Accident on type of road nobody is taught to drive on as a standard shocker.
The test is wrong. It teaches people to satisfy a ticksheet, not to demonstate full control of a vehicle in different scenarios. Having said that I dare say motorway pile-ups still happen in Finland.
completely agree
Should the BBC be showing Mobile phone footage taken by someone driving in the opposite direction? IF it wasn't the driver doing the filming shouldn't they be making the fact clear? If it was the driver filming aren't they guilty of encouraging law breaking?
Bunch of pricks arguing about crap that doesn't matter
Well I'm sorry but I think something that cuases so may deaths on an almost daily basis is worth talking about.
Horrific incident.
Arguments about speed/proximity can go on for all eternity. Ultimately, I'm sure we'd all agree that there exists a significant minority of drivers who simply shouldn't be allowed on the roads.
Obviously, none of the esteemed members of STW are numbered amongst their ranks, but how many times have you seen...
. Someone pulling out of a slip road without looking
. Someone already on the road oblivious to a slip road and neglecting to move to the other lane so that they can merge and join, despite said other lane being empty.
. Dangerous undertaking followed by driver swerving in front of you without indicating
. Cars crossing 2,3 or even 4 lanes of traffic in a single manoeuvre when joining or exiting a motorway.
. Cars swerving in front of you in order to exit a motorway/dual carriageway having missed the off ramp.
etc etc etc
I used to see one truly mental piece of driving every couple of months or so, now it's every other time I drive.
I saw a car reversing on a roundabout the other day having missed the exit it intended to take! No amount of speed cameras are going to catch these people, but the reinstatement of properly resourced traffic patrols, draconian fines and giving courts far greater authority to ban people (for life if necessary) for reckless driving or order them to retake their driving tests may have an impact.
Driving conditions were foul last night, driving back from Yeovil up to Bruton in the fog was horrible. Had to take it really slow. We're used to bad fog from living up in Leeds, but I've never known anywhere that gets it so patchy/thick.
That said, it sounds like the accident was more down to the driver entering from the slipway without due attention. Horrendous situation: excellent work by the emergency services, as ever.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-thread-for-a_a-et-al-to-discuss-the-pros-and-cons-of-speed ]Just for you A_A, as you're struggling to read again today...[/url]
Really feel for the familys of people who lost a Mum / Dad / Brother / Sister / Uncle last night . Parents should never , ever , have to bury thier children . It must be harrowing and soul destroying . There will be many people grieving at the loss of friends and familly today .
Yes , it was a tragic accident .
Yes , the general standard of motorway driving could be better.
Yes , speed was an issue .
If they were doing 0mph there would not have been a crash. The use / misuse of fog lights , over-tired drivers rushing to get home to loved ones after a long week at work, plus poor driving conditions all are contributing factors. All it takes is a 1 sceond distraction and a chain of events unfolds which results in the horror of last nights crash .
My thoughts are for the lost , and the emergency services personnel who have to deal with unfortunate incidents like these too often .
Cars and lorries dont crash themselves unfortunately. There will be plenty innocent people who have been caught up in this crash, but someone somewhere did something stupid.
Well said Sharki and Bullheart.
Sad news.
So seven confirmed dead on BBC News; shall we just be grateful it was not our family or friends and move on from this thread.
Thoughts are with all those involved, i hear of the horrific tales from the scene,children screaming, the heat from the flames being to intense for the first on the scene to be able to help. Them just standing helpless, hearing the panic and the pain.
Yes, that paints it clearly Sharki.
So please would the judge-mental people stop posting; now is not the time.
Really sad to hear this on the news this morning, my thoughts go out to the friends and family.
The daylight helicopter views show two artics stopped with a TNT truck jackknifed behind them, and four or five burned-out trucks in a line, along with cars behind that, which tends to support the report of a vehicle joining the m-way causing others to brake. The jackknifed truck was the main cause of the carnage, probably because with fog and spray drivers coming up behind wouldn't have been able to see it in front of them. Considering this is the worst multiple-vehicle accident since 1991, and considering how busy our roads are now, it shows that our roads are generally very safe indeed. I never feel uneasy driving on motorways, although I don't do it very often, tbh, and I drive for the conditions. This whole 80mph controversy is rediculous though, an indicated 80 is actually around 72mph, as most speedo's are 10% fast. Mine is, and the Puma I had before was*. People are generally going slower than they think they are.
*Checked against GPS, and the Puma's digital speedo.
just seen a report on the bbc and very much pushing the 80mph speed change being a bad thing in light of this crash.
It just strikes me as being a mile wide of the mark. Not in favour of higher limits as i don't think it actually will bring any benefits unless your the ceo of shell or bp. To be honest dropping the standard limit to 55 would probably be better. Introduce a variable limit so higher speeds at non peak times on all motorways
As an aside i wonder if anyone will use this to argue in favour of the clock changes that are being proposed. Dark evening are not good because it tends to be busier on the roads than dark mornings.
This is terribly sad.
As for speed limits, I'm sure most people can safely drive 10mph faster, but I really really don't want the idiots to have a legal excuse to go faster.
As an aside i wonder if anyone will use this to argue in favour of the clock changes that are being proposed. Dark evening are not good because it tends to be busier on the roads than dark mornings.
I think it would be dark at 2030 either way anyway wouldn't it?
Either way, this was a bloody awful accident. Lots of victims, coppers, paramedics, firemen, doctors and nurses coming to terms with what must have been a shit night today. 😐
There but for the grace of whatever...
As bravohotelier says above, we all see stupid things happening on the motorway each time we're on it. One stupid mistake and you could get caught up in something like that through no fault of your own. Sometimes when I'm on the motorway, which isn't much to be honest anymore, I'll find myself just having drifted too close to a car in front, I'll check myself, let the engine brake my car back to the two second gap...but in the meantime, had that car come to a halt against something immoveable, I'd be in his driving seat with him, both of us probably dead. I know no other STWers would commit such a stupid act, but there you go, it can happen to the best 😐 of us.
Careful out there. Lets everyone be awesome to one another!
FFS, the amount of arguing and speculation in this thread is ridiculous.
I feel for the folk involved and there families left behind I was there 3 hours earlier because I refused the overtime if I did the overtime well who knows
cut the shit folks there are people involved in this horrible accident please have a heart
Lets everyone be awesome to one another!
*Steve Vai widdle*
Introduce a variable limit so higher speeds at non peak times on all motorways
seems a good solution to me.
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16104319
The death toll from one of the worst British motorway crashes in memory remained at seven today as police said their "worst fears" over the M5 accident "have not been realised".
At least a bit of "good" news. It's a tragic loss of 7 lives, but if the final count is no higher that, then it is an impressive testament to the actions of the first responders. Specially when you consider the full facts. The only count which appears to be increasing is the number of vehicles involved - it's scary to think so little was left of vehicles that they struggled to count them.
Currently sounding like the bonfire next to the motorway could be at least partly responsible for low visibility. Perhaps not the ideal spot for a Guy Fawkes event.
I cant see how a bonfire next to a motorway can in anway shape or form be held responsible for a car crash. scapegoat for people who refuse to take responsibility for the vehicle they're driving anyone?
There are reports of thick smoke drifting across the motorway from the firework display
I cant see how a bonfire next to a motorway can in anway shape or form be held responsible for a car crash. scapegoat for people who refuse to take responsibility for the vehicle they're driving anyone?
what is the rule? drive in accordance with conditions? if you can't see slow down!
Whatever the cause of this crash nothing that comes out of any inquiry will impact on drivers.
We accept that deaths on the road are inevitable, that over 3000 people are killed each year is unfortunate but it is a price deemed acceptable for the freedom vehicles offer.
Edric - that's hardly a surprise. Who'd have thunk it, smoke coming from a bonfire a couple of nights before bonfire night. Still no excuse to drive like a **** and take lots of folk out with you.
I only live a few miles from where this happened, not nice news to wake up to yesterday morning 🙁
Maybe all the wannabe accident investigators sat behind their computer screens scrutinizing this accident should read this. It was posted on pistonheads in a topic about the accident.
The problem with the whole issue of "driving safely" is one of "reversion to the norm". For the vast majority of people, and there are approximately 34.5million full licence holders in the uk, the norm is not to be involved in a crash or killed (approx 240billion miles were driven in 2010, with approx 3200 people being killed, or 1 death per 75M miles)Hence, for the average person the way they drive is broadly influenced by normality i.e. Their driving is sufficent to not have an accident. Yes, they may drive "poorly" speeding, tailgating, with poor observation and positioning, but in general, there driving is sufficent to avoid injury.
Now, due to pure chance, every now and then an event occurs that is not avoidable by these "average" drivers. They simply do not possess the training or skill set to be able to recognise the onset of a problem, and then did not present the necesary driving skills to be able to avoid it.
We can talk about reducing speed limits, and other such knee jerk reactions till the cows come home, but in reality these will have little effect. The driving population will just "revert to the norm" (and if speeds are slower, you are actually more likely to get into tailgating and other dangerous situation because the drivers "feel" safer). As a general rule, people are sheep, we follow normal patterns of action/reaction, but just occasionally events occur that tip that balance.
The simple fact of the matter, imo, is that driving in the uk is an acceptable risk as it stands. If you are involved in an incident then you have my condolancies, but in life sh*t happens. If you want to do something about it, then do it for yourself. Get some driver training, change the way you drive. Don't blame everyone else, or moan about the system.
On Monday morning, several million people will get into their car, just like every Monday morning. Some will be preoccupied, some just won't have the skills or training, a very small percentage will have a crash, some will be killed. That is the price we pay for the freedom that is granted to us by the car. In the years since WW2 the private car has transformed our lives, allowing people to have a quality of life far beyond anything we have had before. In life, everything carries a penalty, you get nothing for free, you have a choice to drive, you make it everytime you get into a car. You know the risks.
You, or I, might be killed tommorrow in a car crash, we might die from cancer, or be murdered, have a heart attack, die falling out of bed, be involved in a freak accident with a sandwich toaster. Anywhich way, when your time is up, that's it. I suggest we all make the most of today, and life our lives in a way we can be proud off, irrespective of if we live to 100, or die tommorrow. Modern society now seems to expect that no one will ever die before their time, which a quick look at nature will confirm to be a ridiculous state of affairs. In a way, people are fooled into thinking that us homosapiens have now mastered their environment, and that technology can control everything.
These days media covers such events with such a blanket of faux tragedy and heroism that normal reactions are blown out of all proportions, witness the "hero" who helped carry a child to safety from the terrible inferno etc (in reality, i would expect any one reading this to do exactly the same when faced with that situation.) The days of "stiff upper lip" and a "silent strong resolve" in the face of adversity in the UK are long gone.
No doubt as a result of this crash, someone will be blamed, maybe even laws changed, but will it prevent this occuring again? No, unfortunately not, imo.
That is a very good post. And sums it all up. Yes it is a horrible thing to happen. But unfortunately these things happen occasionally. You don't get this sort of issue when a plane crashes and when it comes down to it they are normally an accident.
IO do not think we should acept thousands of people killed in and by cars a#every year as acceptable or normal.
If anything else killed that many people we would be taking measures to stop it.
Driving standards are far too low and could and should be improved - unfortunately anything that restricts driving in any way is vopte loser so there is no political will.
Other countries have very different attitudes so it is not inate that int eh UK we drive so badly.
Other countries have very different attitudes so it is not inate that int eh UK we drive so badly.
http://www.admiral.com/newsArticles/4318/UK-road-deaths-%27lowest-in-Europe%27
I dare say that if I could be arsed, I could find a report that gave me what ever answer I wanted to read
