listening to the local news and they are now suggesting a criminal enquiry surrounding Taunton Rugby Club,
So the fact the drivers are obviously to close together for the conditions etc is irrelevant.
Drivers are never at fault. hence you can kill cyclists twice and still walk away to drive again.
So the fact the drivers are obviously to close together for the conditions etc is irrelevant
How do we know this?
heartfelt sympathies to all involved drove down to cornwall and back this week along the M5 i consider myself a good driver and at times did hit 80 when overtaking. But the amount of people changing lanes with no indication, cutting in and people overtaking at speeds of well in excess of the speed limit was incredible. HGV drivers also seem to have a habit of driving side by side in the 2 left hand lanes on any incline thye can find which causes massive tailbacks. Frankly was happy to get of the motorway. slower speeds give people a chance to react talking from experience last year had an arctic pull from the inside lane to the middle and smacking the rear wing almost spinning the car (forign driver so was a left hand drive he claimed didnt see me at all and just pulled over) this happened in a contraflow so the speed was about 50 managed to control the car and get into the hard shoulder there was an awful lot of traffic about it was dark and raining but the slower speed everyone saw what happened and reacted accordingly so there was only damage to my car no on else involved which we had to be thankful for. if this had happened at 70/80 we wouldnt have stood a chance and would have probably involved a lot more vehicles. there for the grace of god. we dont know what happened friday night to cause this and I hope that the outcome of this incident is that it makes people think twice about driving like maniacs and drive for the conditions.
How do we know this?
if you hit the person if front you are to close, i would have thought that is obvious.
[url= http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069859 ]RTFM[/url]
60mph lorries taking up two lanes is a menace and needs to be addressed. I asked a lorry driver about this once. If his lorry is .1mph faster than the one in front, he would overtake - however long it took. (something about cost of fuel I didnt really understand)
In bad conditions, I am sure a 10-20mph closing speed on a lorry can be lethal - especially if that vehicle sticks its brakes on suddenly.
A really tragic accident.
mrmo - Memberif you hit the person if front you are to close, i would have thought that is obvious.
How about if you had left an adequate gap, but your brakes failed or you had a blow out under braking. What about if you had a heart attack at the wheel?
It doesn't have to be someones fault
60mph lorries taking up two lanes is a menace and needs to be addressed. I asked a lorry driver about this once. If his lorry is .1mph faster than the one in front, he would overtake - however long it took. (something about cost of fuel I didnt really understand)
56mph isnt it? Anyway the reason they overtake is if the lift off the loud pedal to slow behind something, they will loose lots of speed and spend a lot of time and effort waggling gear sticks to get back up to speed. Its not like in a car where you can lift off and then accelerate away again.
56mph isnt it? Anyway the reason they overtake is if the lift off the loud pedal to slow behind something, they will loose lots of speed and spend a lot of time and effort waggling gear sticks to get back up to speed. Its not like in a car where you can lift off and then accelerate away again.
its not lots of speed though. Its a tiny difference that means the manoever takes hundereds of hundreds of yards to excecute. 1 person's actions affects scores behind
If speed restriced vehicles were banned from the middle lane, maybe there would be incentive to sort the speed limiters out?
Maybe the French model of a ban on most HGV's on weekends might be an idea... though perhaps Friday 1500h to 2200h Sat, Sun & public Hols 0600h-2200h?
or how about enforced no HGV hours 0600 to 0900 and 1600 to 1900h on weekdays - logistics forms would have to work their loading patterns round this, and it would have the effect of enforcing regular driver rest periods
I cant see how a bonfire next to a motorway can in anway shape or form be held responsible for a car crash. scapegoat for people who refuse to take responsibility for the vehicle they're driving anyone?
According to meteorologists the smoke particulates cause water vapour to condense around them if air temperatures are right, ie after heavy rain with a temperature drop, which is what was happening here. Several drivers said it was perfectly clear, then it was like someone poured emulsion paint over the windscreen. It appears that there was no gradual mistiness getting thicker, which allows drivers time to adjust their speed, just everything in front suddenly disappeared into a solid white wall. I'd love to know exactly how all the [i]experts[/i] on here would cope if the nice clear
road in front became a solid white wall at 60/70mph, containing several jackknifed 40ton trucks. 'Course, it wouldn't ever affect TJ 'cos he don't drive. He might, however, find himself along with thirty-odd people in a coach under the same conditions...
Everyone on here's a frackin' expert.
countzero - by having the appropriate gap between them and the vehicle in front and by slowing when the visibility fell.
Dancake - Member56mph isnt it? Anyway the reason they overtake is if the lift off the loud pedal to slow behind something, they will loose lots of speed and spend a lot of time and effort waggling gear sticks to get back up to speed. Its not like in a car where you can lift off and then accelerate away again.
If speed restriced vehicles were banned from the middle lane, maybe there would be incentive to sort the speed limiters out?
and if cars where limited to 70mph, then things would be better for drivers of Lcv,s, who cant accelerate past their limited speed to get out of the way for car drivers who cant and dont obe the speed limits.
anyway this arguing is pointless, everyone will forget until the next time and nothing will change. What is certain is there are 7 people who have died.
its not lots of speed though. Its a tiny difference that means the manoever takes hundereds of hundreds of yards to excecute. 1 person's actions affects scores behindIf speed restriced vehicles were banned from the middle lane, maybe there would be incentive to sort the speed limiters out?
maybe someone can explain it better than I can but you clearly arent getting it.
Anway as we all know lorries are restricted to 56mph and cannot use the outside lane maybe we should drive accordingly rather than moan about what they do.
20 October 2008: Family-of-six, including four children, killed in crash involving three lorries and two cars on the M6 in Cheshire
7 May 2007: Six people, including five men travelling home from a stag party, killed on the M25 when the rescue truck carrying their broken-down minibus collides with a lorry in Surrey
10 July 2003: Seven people - including three members of the same family - killed when a minibus collides with a car on the M56 in Greater Manchester
10 March 1997: Three people killed and 160 vehicles involved in a pile-up on the M42 in fog
17 November 1993: Crash on the M40 leaves 12 children dead when their minibus collides with a maintenance vehicle near Warwick
March 13 1991: Ten people killed, and 25 injured, in a 51-car pile-up in foggy conditions on the M4 near Hungerford
28 October 1987: Diesel tank truck collides with stationary traffic on the M61 near Preston, Lancashire, killing 12 people
21 October 1985: Coach collides with stationary traffic on the M6, in Lancashire, between Preston and Lancaster, killing 13 people and injuring 34
27 May 1975: Coach carrying pensioners comes off Dibbles Bridge, near Hebden, North Yorkshire, killing 32 people, in Britain's worst ever road accident
All somebodies freinds,family,workmates,neighbours
About 20 years ago there was a big pile up on the M4 in thick fog. The cause people driving too fast and to close together. So they interview some tit on the news and his excuse for not slowing down and driving to suit the prevailing conditions, “the police hadn’t turned on the matrix signs to say it was foggy”. Like the white fluffy stuff reducing visibility wasn’t a big f***ing clue..
People who drive like c0cks will usually use any excuse to justify the way they drive.
Several drivers said it was perfectly clear, then it was like someone poured emulsion paint over the windscreen. It appears that there was no gradual mistiness getting thicker
That is what happened in Wells that evening. Instant P-soup, clearing completely in 2 hours. Very likely it was a contributory factor.
very sad for all concerned, shout out to the emergency staff, must be fekin horrific turning up to see that even if it is your job :O
i'll never forget years ago, only been driving a few years, went to london to see a gig and was driving back to wales, came up the slip road onto the motorway and hit a thick wall of fog just after pulling onto the motorway itself! i sh*t myself and instinct told me to keep moving, after about 15 long seconds it cleared... i still think back was that the correct procedure?
should i have pulled over to the hard shoulder?
what would have you done?
paulosoxo - MemberHow about if you had left an adequate gap, but your brakes failed or you had a blow out under braking. What about if you had a heart attack at the wheel?
Sure, that can happen, but here it would have had to have happened simultanously to about 30 vehicles.
It'd be nice if after something like this, people did have a bit of a think about their driving, I think most of us are guilty of driving too close together at times. I know I am.
So is this your fix. Some [i]training[/i] 😯maybe we should drive accordingly rather than moan about what they do.
there will always be bad or distracted drivers, or those who simply make bad decisions. People need protecting from themselves. If that means babysitting drivers so be it.
Drove on the M5 today just 20 miles northbound from the accident, far too many people still driving like tools for my liking.
I don't think the people that 'need' to learn something from Friday night actually will 🙁
I see the plod are talking about a thick bank of smoke across the motorway. Still think this is a bit unlikely. It is hard to imagine that smoke from a bonfire being that thick. Its far more likely, as Countzero says that particulates from the fire along with the thermal mixing caused a local fog bank.
RE: the bonfire smoke. I've watched a firework display from an adjacent field, down wind, on a foggy night. We couldn't actually see the fireworks and we ended up separated in the field unable to see our own hands at arms length. I can fully believe it may have been a contributory factor. There was no bonfire on that particular night, it was the firework smoke.
If there was "a big white wall" in front of me I'd be hoping that by looking far enough ahead I'd see it before I got there. Call it a stab in the dark, but things like cats eyes failing to reflect light, armco barriers disappearing into mist, not being able to see any vehicles in the distance, not being able to see any stars or lighting - oh and the presence of a BFO bank of fog/smoke might inform the alert driver that something was not quite right in the distance.
mrmo - Member
We accept that deaths on the road are inevitable, that over 3000 people are killed each year is unfortunate but it is a price deemed acceptable for the freedom vehicles offer
1850 people in 2010. Still far too many of course.
[url= http://assets.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/reported-road-casualties-gb-main-results-2010/reported-road-casualties-gb-main-results-2010.pdf ]http://assets.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/reported-road-casualties-gb-main-results-2010/reported-road-casualties-gb-main-results-2010.pdf[/url]
maybe we should drive accordingly rather than moan about what they do.
So is this your fix. Some trainingthere will always be bad or distracted drivers, or those who simply make bad decisions. People need protecting from themselves. If that means babysitting drivers so be it.
What the **** are you talking about?
people stating certainties now are stupid irrespective of whether they turn out to be right.
good article here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/06/government-intensely-relaxed-traffic-deaths
As details of the victims are now starting to come out, disabled man trapped in burning car etc, can we just close this thread now and have a bit of respect.
The firework display in question didn't actually have a bonfire.
A spokeman from the Rugby Club who organised it has been speaking to the local paper today.
Knowing this fact and being from Taunton so knowing the area, etc it seems very unlikely that the display would've caused any major visibilty issues to me.
More likely drivers being distracted by the fireworks and losing concentration for a few seconds.
Obviously not
No ones being disrespectful Ben. It's called an adult discussion.
I'm not saying people are necessarily being disrespectful but we seem to have reached page 4 of 'who knows best' and don't seem any further forwards; as the the road had reopened seemed like a good time to move on
In the UK we actually drive pretty well compared to most of the rest of the world. I think we have a fair number of good drivers who probably prevent a lot of accidents that would otherwise be caused by morons although there's no stat that could ever prove that.
If you try driving around Istanbul, Karachi, Delhi or Tehran you'll realise how good the UK is. In Iran they have 38,000 deaths per year from a pop. of 75 million but with fewer cars/journeys than the UK.
The argument over an 80mph motorway limit is pointless. I've spoken to several traffic cops from different forces who've all said, "Keep it under 90 and you'll be fine." How many people get done doing less than 90 on a motorway?
I got done for 92
I agree with Ben..if you want to argue/discuss driving skills and techniques, start a new thread but this it is inappropriate under this heading.
