[Closed] The European experiment is over.

Ah puke.

It's turned into a love-in now. People are even bigging up those they've never even met.

You been upsetting people again fella ?

Who, me? No, not me.

Love the way Stoner calls me 'patronising'. This, from a person who claimed I had the 'intellectual capacity of a muddy puddle' recently. 😆

Doesn't strike me as a 'gentleman' at all. Lacks manners, and, dare I say it, class.

(Wonders why Little England has now gone quiet...)

[b]backhander[/b] - Member

Sorry fred, that is complete tripe. The "lefties" are often the most vitriolic, intolerant and aggresive on the forum. Your post being case in point.

Hmm. Care to remind us what exactly it was that you said to SimonFBarnes, that got you banned, a couple of months ago? Wasn't very nice, was it?

Nah yer Lefties on here seem to go on rides with other STWers, and come across as quite friendly and caring, imo. As do some of the Righties, in all fairness. But there are a number of right-wing Little Englanders who are pretty snobbish and prejudiced towards others, it must be said. And don't seem quite as sociable. I don't see the same level of prejudice amongst those who seem to espouse more Left-Wing views.

I find it a shame that the likes of Stoner and Flashy won't come and have a pint with me. Might enhance their lives. Oh whell, what can you do?

Personally I'm more than happy for anyone to come and discuss things face to face. I never say owt to anyone on here I wouldn't say to their face. I won't hide behind a keyboard.

I'd rather not have anything to do with that Ernie though. He's horrible and mean and nasty. 😥

But there are a number of right-wing Little Englanders who are pretty snobbish and prejudiced towards others

No, I won't have that.

Prejudiced, snobbish and right wing he's proved himself on this thread but there's no way that TJ is pro England. 😕

A quick post from work.

Calling some of you Little englanders is not racist. It is not the same as smelly french or tight scots.

simplty because it does not refer to all english in a derogatory way. it referes to a subset of people witht the "little englander" attitude so clearly expressed on here.

its a shame some of you are too hard of thinking to understand what racism is as why " lttle englander" uis not a racist term.

its a slur all right - but one based on small minded and parochial attitudes not on race. therefore it is not racist. Its not a negaive sterotyping based on race, its a mild insult based on attitude.

Understand?

I think it was a fair comment, TJ. Interesting how none of them have attempted to respond in an intelligent manner...

[img] [/img]

its a mild insult

TopTip.........beef up the insult by preceding it with the words "sour faced"

Wow theres some serious bitching going on in this thread. I have learnt something though. Bolton has got a crescent ala Bath. Don't know about which was first, but Royal Crescent is a World Heritage Site like Stonehenge isn't it?

In reference to Scotland's independence, as far as I can tell, the Scots are welcome to it. If this makes me a 'little Englander' then so be it. I don't think it'll make a drop of difference to my life. Of course, it'll never happen, the Union is so ingrained into the Scots, English and the Welsh that its just not possible to gain full independence. Within my lifetime at least.

pete - not at all - the "little englanders" are the ones with closed minds and parocial attitudes. Live and let live is not indicative of the little englander.

Elfinwotsit -

Care to remind us what exactly it was that you said to SimonFBarnes, that got you banned, a couple of months ago? Wasn't very nice, was it?

I seem to recall you got more than a little personal with him on a photo thread a few weeks back, until a sudden change of heart. Where are those black pots and kettles again?

Also, am I the only one to spot TJ's irony in saying "spot the irony in people who wish to keep the UK wanting to leave the EU", when all he's saying is "leave the UK, join the EU".

Very bizarre...

Calling some of you Little englanders is not racist. It is not the same as smelly french or tight scots.

In your eyes, maybe not, but then I don't see saying 'tight scot' as racist either, especially as most I know are usually the las with their wallet when a round of drinks is called (and that's from a 'tight northerner'). Preceeding 'little englander' with 'sour faced' does increase its insult potential somewhat...

Anyway, once Scotland's independent, what then? You could sell the world whisky and tourism, and some agricultural produce I suppose. You could also conceivably sell England some water and wind / wave / hydro power. But then what?

Oil's running out.
Your banks are toast (and if you're independent, we'll have the money back that was used to save them too, thanks)
You'll need an independent military and security force, not to mention many more new and exciting ministries to set up and run things (oh, and to be paid too)

I know your answer - to join the EU and take subsidy.

So, instead of being subsidised (or not, can't be bothered arguing with you over your massaged figures) by England, you'll be subsidised by England via an increase in English payments to the EU, then back to you. The ultimate irony of course being that as an Englishman yourself, you'll be an immigrant in a separate sovereign state.

TJ land really is a confusing place to be...

[s]Oil's running out[/s] Current methods of extracting oil are becoming less financially viable.

FTFY.

The Scots don't even remotely want independence, it's just the few that do make a big noise about it

A couple of years back the SNP held a 100 or so roadshows the length & breath of the country, called the 'Big Conversation' or something to talk about independence at grass roots level
The turnout was pitiful, something like 50 per roadshow event, no one was interested in the subject

[s]Oil's running out[/s] Current methods of extracting oil are becoming less financially viable.

FTFY.

Forgive me if I am wrong but the investment needed to extract oil past 2020 is mind-boggling, would require huge tax breaks for the companies to even begin entertaining it and ultimately would lead to high fuel costs. Coupled with the maximum estimates if all oil could be extracted that it would satisfy 30% of the energy needs.

Doesn't Norway own most of the remaining North Sea oil reserves??

You could also conceivably sell England some water

no chance, they'll tow icebergs down the Thames first

NW is very wet, NE has Keilder, no powers to lay a pipeline through either area

"[s]Oil's running out[/s] Current methods of extracting oil are becoming less financially viable."

FTFY.

What a moronic post. We are taking out a substance that is not being replaced. Ergo it is running out. Nothing to be fixed, except perhaps your intelligence...

Calling some of you Little englanders is not racist. It is not the same as smelly french or tight scots.

simplty because it does not refer to all english in a derogatory way. it referes to a subset of people witht the "little englander" attitude so clearly expressed on here.

so by that logic, it's ok to refer to 'the smelly french' as long as you're only refering to the 'smelly ones' 💡

someone take that shovel off him.

Trail monkey am I supposed to be saying that all Englanders are small?

Do you understand what racism is?

"Little Englander" is by no means a racist term as it is not "negative sterotyping on grounds of race".

Are you really that hard of thinking?

Zokes - where did I say that I wanted independence? I didn't at all. I don't know how you work out some of the rest of the ridiculous things you say. Scotland is a net contributor to the UK and has been for many decades - this is incontrovertible.

Its pointless even attempting to discuss with people so hard of thinking who are incapable of reading what I wrote.

Are you really that hard of thinking?

rather be thick than a racist

Perhaps you should read....

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Englander ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Englander[/url]

I've been reading your wittering on this thread TJ. I also think that breaking up the Union would be a crap expensive idea. What does that make me? (careful now...)

LHS =- thats exactly what I mean

Little Englander is a term now applied to English people [b]who are regarded as xenophobic and/or overly nationalistic[/b] and are often accused of being ignorant and boorish.

Now those of you that think this is racist I challenge you to find s definition of racism that shows this is racist.

Hint - the usual definition is " negative stereotyping on grounds of race"

DD - thats a perfectly reasonable stance shared by many

Please note [b]I did not[/b] argue for independence at any point - I merely pointed out that Scotland more than pays its way.

Scotland is a net contributor to the UK and has been for many decades - this is incontrovertible.

It contributes the highest rate of bancrupty which should be very worrying for a nation heavily dependent on public sector jobs. Its also rather worrying that the SNP for a long time have been declaring that they could be as successful as Ireland if they were independent!

🙄

Now those of you that think this is racist I challenge you to find s definition of racism that shows this is racist.

So you're not being racist by referring to people as racists.

Where did I refer to anyone as racist? Stop putting words in my mouth.

You're right, Xenophobia and Racism are very different.

This thread is going round in circles!!!!!

Can someone provide me with a summary so I don't have to go back over the previous five pages to work out what I should be angry about?

Thanks!

Correct LHS.

Luked - people claiming that the euro will collapse as Germany will withdraw from it which is a load of piffle. spongebrain then claimed all sorts of nonsense about the Scots as scroungers upon which I corrected him. Than a bunch of ignorant little englanders tried to shout me down and invented load of stuff that they claimed I said and attempted to invent a new definition of racism

]Its hardly entertaining reading unless you enjoy watching hard of thinking small minded parochial little englanders ineffectually frothing at the mouth.

Blimey. Is this still running?

It was me who put the William TJ Wallace tag up. I would have thought that was fairly obvious. I wasn't being cowardly. I just thought it was funny. Seems I wasn't on my own

Any-road-up - lets start where I left off. Ahem.....

TJ - You say that I'm guessing about the Scottish nationalists attitude to Banking regulation. Hardly. You seem to be in denial.Good old Alex quotes, ad nauseam, his admiration for the low tax, light-touch attitude of Ireland and Iceland. As the speech I quoted points out. He's been banging on about it for years! Do you actually read the papers? For someone so forthright in his views, you really should do a bit of research occassionaly. Its not difficult.

Could you please nip off, have a look on google (which is presently emblazoned with a Scotish flag - you'll feel at home) and come back with the evidence of Alex's fierce attitude to clamp down on bankers excess's and come down like a ton of bricks on corporate tax evaders. I'd be interested to see it. Mainly as it doesn't exist.

You seem to be like a small child, who, on being presented with the evidence contrary to your opinion (like this, for example: http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/6467905/another-irish-loser-alex-salmond.thtml), simply sticks his fingers in his ears, closes his eyes and shouts NAH NAH NAH I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!!!!

And TJ - If you think I'm a little Englander, you should hear my opinions on the Centralisation of power in the South East of England.

Binners - and again no where in that article - which is an opinion piece- is there anything about banking regulation.

I do read the press and I have seen little about banking regulation - the only thing I have seen from the SNP was criticism of the " light touch regulation of the banks"

Now unless you can come up with something ( that you have totally failed to do so far) that actually quotes SNP policy ON BANKING REGULATION then you clearly are guessing as to what it is.

So EVIDENCE PLEASE. none supplied so far.

TJ - thanks.

Doesn't sound like there's anything there to be angry about.

More just really sad for how miserable life is going to be in the Irish Republic 🙁

Paying off that much debt is not going to be pleasant.

I am sure that everyone made hay whilst the sun shone and didn't just assume that a boom like that would continue indefinitly and ensured that all the additional money they had went into savings for a rainy day.

NAH NAH NAH I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!!!! 😉

NOrway did exactly that with the oil money - squirrelled it away for the future not spent it on unemployment benefits.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2008/pol070908a.htm

Binners - where is your evidence of the SNPs banking policy ? You have failed to provide any so far.

Actually I can't resist

the only thing I have seen from the SNP was criticism of the " light touch regulation of the banks"

yeah... he says that NOW. As does everyone else. If you read his speeches from 2 years ago, he was making a case for the exact reverse. You really are a dream voter aren't you? Whats your take on Nick Clegg's position on tuition fees? Purely out of interest. Is everything he said in the past equelly as non valid in light of new eveidence

YOur evidence Binners? As you don't actually know what his position n banking regulation ever was then how can you claim it has changed?

BTW AT NO POINT ON THIS THREAD HAVE I ARGUED FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE OR IN SUPPORT OF THE SNP

I wonder how other forums cope without a TJ...

TJ. Its quite simple. He has continuously expressed his admiration for, and his desire to replicate, the two countries with the laxest banking regulation in the world. It really is that simple. Why can't you accept this?

rather be thick than a racist

Well you certainly came over as rather thick..............you clearly had absolutely no idea what the term "little englander" meant.

Or was this just all a big pretence for the hilarious "let's wind up TJ" effect ?

Binners - that is no evidence of the snp policy on [b]banking regulation.[/b] Why can you not see this?

So please - evidence to back your assertion that the snp favour light touch banking regulation.

ok, tj, justify, from my comments on the thread why i am a little englander

Ta Ernie.

Trailmonkey - did I call [b]you [/b] a little englander?

But if the hat fits..................

But if the hat fits..................

go on, prove it, if you're going to insinuate.

Well you certainly came over as rather thick..............you clearly had absolutely no idea what the term "little englander" meant

oh, i think i know. but thanks for the love all the same 8)

I give up. You're right TJ. You always are. I was wrong. Kim Il Salmond, when he inevitably gets to wield supreme executive power over us all, promises to be the scourge of bankers everywhere. All his proclamations point to exactly this conclusion

🙄

TJ - since the mines and much of the nationalised industries were running at a [b]loss[/b] at the time, would it be any different if the money was being spent on unemployment benefits, or propping up loss making industries?

You seem to overlook the fact that the [b]alternative[/b] to making people unemployed, was to continue to pay their wages, which would probably have cost more.

Now, back to your other comments:

"Little Englander" is by no means a racist term as it is not "negative sterotyping on grounds of race".

Which is like something from Alice through the looking glass - When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Tell you what TJ, would you find the phrase Porridge Wog racist? I mean, it doesn't appear to introduce any form of negative sterotype... so by your standards thats OK 🙄

Where have I called you a little englander? Have I even insinuated? please point out where I have. I merely asked you if you thought you were. If the hat fits wear it. If it doesn't then don't.

Binners - please give me some evidence to back your assertion So far you have not done so. Nothing you have posted mentions banking regulation at all.

I've no intention of doing so TJ. i've admitted I'm wrong and you're right. I don't know what i was thinking. You've effectively 're-educated' me.

I'm basing this on the mountains of evidence you yourself have supplied on the subject.

I think it might be time for the mods to intervene tbh.

This was quite funny for a while.

If the hat fits wear it. If it doesn't then don't

I suggest you apply the same logic to yourself.

If you're not a small minded bigot then let it go.

and returning to a previous tangent, here's a nice building:

[img] [/img]

Its much maligned and often overlooked. That's one of the reasons I like it so much. It was designed by Henry Moore. Whats not to like?

What's your favourite building TJ?

Some very silly people on this thread.

TJ, on the point of regulation, I think unfortunately that you're being overly optimistic or more to the point just believing that everyone else can be brought round to your Comrade-TJ beliefs. I can see no reason to believe that Scotland would likely have been any different to the rest of the UK or most other Euro countries in not regulating the banks properly. Greed is common over the borders amongst both politicians and bankers. Which politicians were actually
shouting for more regulation before it became obvious that the whole house of cards were really about to come crashing down? (Yes, I know it's obvious that it had to happen eventually).

Your view seems to be rather idealised and unrealistic. It's possible that an independent Scotland would have tightened banking regulation, but in reality not very likely.

Same as your general assertion that NHS (and other) cuts by the current regime are ideological rather than necessary, a point to which I agree to some extent but since the alternative is taxing many people more than currently which isn't something that the electorate would generally tolerate (we've become far too selfish as a society to accept that) it isn't going to happen no matter how much you bleat on about it.

None so evangelical as the 'converted' eh... 😉

Clubber - I don't disagree. No where on this thread have I said anything different. I merely asked Binners to provide some evidence for his assertions.

It's possible that an independent Scotland would have tightened banking regulation, but in reality not very likely.

Seems perfectly reasonable. However Binners was asserting that Scotland would have had light touch banking regulation without any evidence. I hoped he would provide some but seemed unable to do so.

Trailmonkey - point tioo a single post where I said you were a little englander?

Well maybe you should write a list of names to clarify.

Trailmonkey - point tioo a single post where I said you were a little englander?

You didn't, you made a sweeping generalisation across the thread, which really was the root of the problem.

Having said that, yes, it's all rather silly now and i much prefered the buildings thread drift.

I agree with TJ

uplink - Member

I agree with TJ

Me too.

Little Englander, from Wikipedia:

Historically, and more accurately, the term indicated an anti-imperialist political stance

The British Empire did a lot of good things, but quite a few fairly grim things (e.g. invention of concentration camps). I don't want to resurrect it.

So I'm happy to be labeled a Little-Englander.

What a horrible, horrible thread.

Heh heh! Is this still going??!

I can't even remember my original thoughts on all this. I think I just came on for a good argue. Then some people started having a go at TJ, then I had a pop at them, and they din't like it.

As for 'Little Englanders'...

I've used that term many a time, because it's actually perfect for some of the folk on here. They are Little Englanders. Racist? Well, I'm English, and so is TJ. It's no more 'racist' than calling someone a 'Chav'. It's amusing that some of those most vehement about being labelled 'Little Englanders' are happy to throw insulting terms around towards others.

And now we know it winds them up, well, it's like a red rag to a bull, really.

If you don't want to be labelled a Little Englander, then don't act like one. Simples. But if you do, then don't start crying if someone calls you it.

In fact, the more this nonsense carries on, the more some folk look like Little Englanders. 😆

Anyway, Binners has the right idea..

This is the Vikingskipet (Viking ship) in Hamar, Norway, whose design was inspired by the idea of an upturned Viking boat. It was built for the 1994 Lillehammer Winter Lympics, as a speed-skating rink, but it has also hosted a UCI track cycling World Championship too. Graham Obree set the World Hour Record in it in 1993. Vikings would use upturned boats as shelter, they would have done so when they first landed on the shores of Scotland.

Lovely bit of architecture, this:

[img] /id_5701/ImageVaultHandler.aspx[/img]

They are Little Englanders. Racist? Well, I'm English, and so is TJ.

I can't believe you forgot to mention that not only are you English, but you are also not very tall.

Some nice architecture amongst the horseshit being spoken. Being born somewhere shouldn't define you or seal your fate, nor should you expect special treatment.
Ask not what your country can do for you and all that......

I can't believe you forgot to mention that not only are you English, but you are also not very tall.

Yeah? So? That's hereditary actually, as both my parents are small. Which makes you a [b]racist[/b].

I don't care anyway because you're ugly and you smell. 😥

Do you ever tire of dancing on the head of a pint TJ?
It is clear to all that SNP bigged up the small European countries when they were in boom times and used their economic model as an example of what Scotland would do if they were independent. It is fairly clear, to all but the obtuse, what his view was generally on the banking sector- perhaps you should produce some quotes where he was screaming for financial regulation prior to the collapse – you know both sides need to produce evidence [ bet you claim you never said that etc]– I think we should take a lack of comment as indicative that he broadly supported the status quo re regulation.

Binners was asserting that Scotland would have had light touch banking regulation without any evidence. I hoped he would provide some but seemed unable to do so

Again reasonable to assume that his lack of comment on this means he was ok with the current/old system.
It is a pointless argument TJ there is no direct quote re regulation - are you suggesting he has no view then? You suggesting he used them aa models but actually opposed their regualtion system - this does seem a a somewhat unlikely position - prima facie

Can we all agree this is ugly?
[img] [/img]

More buildings please.

Hmm. Care to remind us what exactly it was that you said to SimonFBarnes, that got you banned, a couple of months ago? Wasn't very nice, was it?

The european experiment is not over - it's just getting interesting.

to which the previous 6 pages are testimony.

Ireland/Portugal/Iceland/Greece/Spain/the rest of us/etc. are not in financial trouble because of the Euro-dollar, or the european union, they/we are in trouble because they/we've been spending Billions that they/we didn't have.

silly sods.

it turns out that you can't build an economy from selling debt to one another, or rather, you can, but don't expect it to stand up for very long.

Ireland/Portugal/Iceland/Greece/Spain/ are not in financial trouble because of the Euro-dollar, or the european union, they are in trouble because they've been spending Billions that they didn't have

Herein lies the biggest weakness of the Euro/single economy.

There will always be states that are carried. Permanently.

Yes, we wouldn't do anything silly like that

I didn't say a word to sfb, although I did have a day ban once

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wendy-lewis-my-god/page/2#post-1730867 ]Well that's a lie for a start.[/url]

The actual post has been removed, but I know you posted it, because I read it.

I've never, ever posted anything anywhere near that offensive at all. In fact, I've never actually bin banned for breaking forum rules; just that the mods decided the number of complaints about me was too much. Complaints from people who can't accept that someone else had a different point of view to them, and got wound up by things. I've accepted my behaviour needed to change, and have taken appropriate steps. I've grown up and moved on. I suggest you do the same.

I shan't respond to you about this matter, as I now consider it closed, and continuing this 'discussion' will serve no positive purpose.

Anyway, back to more important matters...

Not a building as such, but continuing along the 'Norwegian Lympic Venue' seam, see this, right, it's a cavern inside a mountain at a place called Gjøvik, in Norway. Was used for the ice hockey tournament, and is also a concert venue. it's the largest 'underground' public arena in the World. A stunning feat of engineering.

[img] [/img]

hora - Member

Ireland/Portugal/Iceland/Greece/Spain/ are not in financial trouble because of the Euro-dollar, or the european union, they are in trouble because they've been spending Billions that they didn't have

Herein lies the biggest weakness of the Euro/single economy.

There will always be states that are carried. Permanently.

only if they keep spending money they don't have...

i'm not sure i believe this, but... i could argue that the current mess we're in is because Europe didn't have enough power - to tell ireland to stop spending money like a drunk sailor in a whore-house.

There will always be states that are carried. Permanently.

Yeah, but only in the same way in a country, there will always be areas that produce less than others, and maybe require more spending on services and that. Frinstance; should the people of Northern Ireland have public spending cut simply because their 'input' is less than other regions? No, they're part of the United Kingdom, and should have a fair share. As for 'permanently', you can see into the future then, Hora?

Pft. You can't even forsee the slap that Binners is going to give you next time he sees you.... 😀

This is my favourite govt. building. Depending on the light it's either transparent or reflects the people looking in, very clever and rather nice to look at.

[img] [/img]

I didn't get a ban for that. And I don't believe you about your numerous bannings. Just why did so many people complain about you fred? I wonder......

ok you dont believe him he does not believe you.
Thrilling as this is can we move on now ?

Now we're onto rooves, I'll slide along the Lympic seam, back home to Blighty. The new Aquatics Centre for 2012 is shaping up nicely, and will look stunning:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]