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Th3 Ioniq5 is a step up from the Niro/Kona and old Ioniq though. I5/EV6/genesis GV60 are the attempt by Hyundai/Kia group to break into the luxury market.
Considering how much I’m enjoying the MG 5, I can’t wait for my I5. Roll on August…………
Having said that, if it gets delayed again & I could get an e-Niro straight away I’d swap.
I think the govt should mandate a minimum of 2 chargers per site, penalising any provider with a bad serviceability record.
We've got about 650 chargers on site (or should have by now) they are still all completely occupied by 7:30 in the morning. It's getting so bad that they are talking about bringing in extra charges/fines for people who don't vacate within a certain timescale after the battery is full.
Plan is to have 900 chargers by the end of the year. Unfortunately, we already have about 2000 Co Cars with either full BEV or PHEVs. Plus another couple of hundred privately owned ones...
If Hyundai can put one in as standard on cheaper cars then VW can too.
Why?
We’re talking 200KW, £85,000 jobbies. These are ready-for-sale, so may start appearing soon.
We have a variety of these that have been bought for testing. Some of the suggested charging speeds are a little optimistic...
Not sure about the kona but the I5 feels nicer inside/less plasticky and better put together outside thank my dads VW Gold mk8
Yeah I should clarify that the Ioniq EV is a car from 2017 or so that originally came with a 28kWh battery then got upgraded to 38kWh. It's available in petrol or diesel hybrid and plugin hybrid models as well. It's what I have, decent and well specced but not luxurious, they are about £30k in EV form. When I say 'Ioniq' I'm not just using short hand 🙂
Hyundai in a rather confusing move skipped called another car the Ioniq 5, which is a completely different car in all respects - price, market segment, size, performance, and plushness level.
If Hyundai can put one in as standard on cheaper cars then VW can too.
Why?
It is a significant problem not having a heat pump IMO. You're paying for all these expensive batteries then pissing energy up the wall. You're feeding range anxiety by making it much more variable, making it more of a pain to own, you're encouraging the naysayers, and it's not really well publicised so you're going to get a lot of dissatisfied customers. A bad move from VW, for me.
molgrips
Oh they offer it, but it’s an optional extra, rather than standard kit. And most lease deals now seem to be offering cars they ordered ages ago, due to delivery times, and they don’t mention extras. So I think they’ve not specced it and you’ll get whatever they have – hence the warning. I like the iD4 and it can tow but I’m not doing without a heat pump.
Understood, thanks molgrips.
Agreed. Heat pump should come as standard. We had to spec it on my wife’s ID3 but glad we did as it seems to make a decent difference. I was shocked to find my Mar ‘20 Tesla M3P doesn’t have a heat pump (no option to spec) but the new ones do. Bit of a pisstake that a £56k car didnt come with this useful kit as standard. My Tesla with roof bars/598s gets similar miles out of a charge as the VW. Obviously a lot of that is to do with me ruining the aero of the car with bike carrying equipment on the roof!
I'm ambivalent about heat pumps. They made sense in the early days of EVs when squeezing every bit of range out of a battery was critical but now with 50+kWh batteries being the norm they're not essential, just nice to have IMO. And that's if you live somewhere cold, in the mostly temperate UK it's not a big thing. If it's an option then only worth buying if you're an efficiency obsessive or regularly pushing close to the range of the car and it might make the difference between a charge and not.
Otherwise for everyday use (well within the range of the car) it's irrelevant other than a few pence more per charge. And for the long trips it's unlikely to have much effect on when and where you charge. I had an eGolf for 2 years without one and it was very rare that a heat pump would have changed anything about how we used it.
Battery Life on youtube tested ID.3 with and without, reckoned on 264km vs 287km - but that was at -9C.
Wind, rain, cold, speed have more of an effect on range in the winter than energy used to heat the cabin IME.
Battery Life on youtube tested ID.3 with and without, reckoned on 264km vs 287km – but that was at -9C.
That's interesting, it's not as much difference as I thought it would make TBH. I wonder if a more normal range for the UK (e.g. 0-10c) would have a bigger or smaller difference between heatpump/non-heatpump. Because the cabin would require less heating but (i presume) the heatpump is more efficient in warmer temps.
There are a lot of stories of wild variations between summer and winter in various cars (my colleague's Model S for one), and more importantly the actual range being far below the 'claimed' in winter, however I don't see that. I'm guessing it's down to the heat pump and Hyundai being generally pretty honest and decent about range by the looks of things.
I think it also depends on how fast you are driving, because the faster you go the more heat is generated by the motor which could be re-directed to the cabin if my understanding is correct (but I'm not sure). And even if the energy use for heating might be similar for a given time it's being spread over fewer miles if you're going slower so has a greater impact on miles/kWh and hence absolute range. Because range is quoted in miles (or km) not hours.
@willard on here got some great numbers from his new Kona on his first trip in minus Sweden temperatures, but I think it was a long run.
Wind, rain, cold, speed have more of an effect on range in the winter than energy used to heat the cabin IME.
We had a conversation earlier about this, and the response was if I remember, 'different' and my current approach (seat heaters on, aircon on, steering wheel heater on, Spotify via inbuilt HiFi and phone plugged in plus helmet, gloves & jacket on passenger seat etc) was deemed, 'wasteful'. Oh, and slow down 🙂
Maybe I need to hire an EV and see what range I'd actually get using one as I use my current diesel car.
Being a bit more limited on cost, I’ve just ordered a lease EV6 Air, 36 months with maintenance at £530 a month… delivery in February 23!
The lease company have a clause that allows you to change your order if something comes in sooner, so I have an alert on an I4.
I didn't bother with maintenance on a 2 year lease on a car with a warranty. I had to pay for the first service at 1 year, cost £73. Maintenance was more than that....
The company is paying most of it tbh, and their insisting on maintenance included.
Ah, fair point!
Good choice of car.
Nice, I do like the EV6. The Air apparently doesn't have V2L on the spec sheet but if you buy the adaptor that plugs into the charging socket it works - handy for camping/racing/powercuts etc.
Visited a mate at the weekend, first time I'd done that trip in my new Leaf. So nice to knock out 135 motorway miles without thinking about it, propilot set to 72, no care for economy, even left the roofbars on. Loads left when I arrived - and he has his own EV now so a proper charger to use rather than a long extension and the granny charger.
In the egolf it was either a more time-consuming but shorter route through London, or a very careful eco drive the motorway route if it's not wet/cold/windy, or a charge needed.
I don't need the bigger range much of the time but it's so nice to have for trips like that.
Yeah it is nice to be able to drive so cheaply.
I have to go to North Wales in a couple of weeks, which involves a great drive through Mid Wales, for which I'd love to drive the diesel. But it'll cost about 3.5x as much as taking the EV. The other issue is that it's 186 miles to my accommodation. It has a rapid charger next door, but that's right on the limit of the range I'd expect, and I'm not sure how the hilly terrain would affect it. And there are naff all rapid chargers in Mid Wales, I'd have to take a detour to top up.
I'd average about 4.5p a mile if I charged at 40p/kWh when I get there - based on 5p/kWh at home and 40p at a rapid charger, and 5 miles/kWh economy; versus about 15.7p/mile in the diesel. So about £40 all in for the privilege of driving the nicer car and not having to either a) drive super eco carefully or b) take a diversion on the way there to top up.
That ~£500 lease for the EV6 - is that gross or net salary sacrifice?
Long range battery? 2WD or AWD?
What mileage is the lease for?
And there are naff all rapid chargers in Mid Wales, I’d have to take a detour to top up.
The Rhug Estate in Corwen on the A5 have announced they are getting eight rapid chargers; given the charging desert that is mid-Wales I imagine these will be a game changer for getting up to Snowdonia and around.
https://goo.gl/maps/xSmEeMBYsaLGbf9AA
No idea when they are due to open, mind
£530/m ??? heck, that's a lot of money. That value assumes that the car will depreciate by almost £20k over 3 years and be worth only half of its £41k value in an emergent and growing market...
I suspect the current leasing prices are more influenced by supply issue than depreciation.
Ooh those A5 chargers look useful but not for me 🙂
Interesting video where they run a model Y from 100% until it dies, never realised how much further it can go on 0%...
Question for anyone who shares electricity bills, if you charge a car at home, is there any way to separate the charging cost from regular electric usage?
Say if you were in a house share, with 3 people all paying a third of the electric bill. 2 with combustion cars, the third gets an electric car and charges from home for 75% of their miles. Any way of working it out, apart from trying to work out how much energy it's used (not easy if it's on trickle all the time) or paying a set extra amount? If they do 500 miles on home charging that's a good £40 or so and I'm sure the other 2 won't be happy paying for part of charging cost!
My Podpoint comes with an app and when you set it up you put in your hourly KWH charge that your electric supplier charges you then you can keep track from the app.
That ~£500 lease for the EV6 – is that gross or net salary sacrifice?
Long range battery? 2WD or AWD?
What mileage is the lease for?
It’ll be salary sacrifice. It’s the RWD version official range 335 miles. Becuase it’s not coming until Feb, we are negotiating cancellation into the order. Even the dealer said that prices have rocketed and it might be better to wait.
My Podpoint comes with an app and when you set it up you put in your hourly KWH charge that your electric supplier charges you then you can keep track from the app.
Ahh, nice - that makes sense, thought there would be something to solve this. Otherwise you're blindly moving running costs into household costs.
My car also has an app that breaks it down even by trip, which would be handy of you shared the car and also for claiming expenses.
yup, pop-point app tells you how much the charging sessions are.
my 4hour off-peak charging window gives me 30kWh for less that £3 and its about 50% charge (64kWh battery)...its the car thats controlling the charge not the pod, but it can
my 4hour off-peak charging window gives me 30kWh for less that £3 and its about 50% charge
Isn't the issue the 30p+ /kWh that you pay for everything that isn't a car?
That value assumes that the car will depreciate by almost £20k over 3 years and be worth only half of its £41k value in an emergent and growing market…
That assumption assumes the markets saturated with stock and every one is competing for the business barely covering costs.
That was never the market model 😉
yeah the off peak rate is a bit more than we'd normally get but I'm still to work out EV tariff is right for us. will dust of my spreadsheet'foo
I really want a Lucid Air. Just the cheapest would be awesome.
I was torn between the Ioniq 5 & EV6. The I5 was better for longer driving as opposed to the slightly sportier EV6.
My workmdeal was better for the I5 too - top spec AWD with tech/eco packs for the ame price as a RWD EV6.
The german EVs were another £200-300/mo extra.
I don't think this has been mentioned on this thread yet but Tesla have opened up 15 of their supercharger hubs to non-Tesla vehicles. Access is through the Tesla app. Sites are Aberystwyth, Adderstone, Aviemore, Banbury, Birmingham St Andrews, Cardiff, Dundee, Flint, Folkestone Eurotunnel, Grays, Manchester Trafford Centre, Thetford, Trumpington, Uxbridge and Wokingham. The Aberystwyth and Flint Mountain hubs will be welcome in the charging desert that is Mid and North Wales.
Not Cheap though!!!! 60+p/KW.
No, but I suspect most people, like me, will be happy to pay that for the occasional fill up, when their daily driving is cheap at home.
It's a good thing all in, I reckon, despite the cost. It's not even the most expensive option!
Not Cheap though!!!!
Well Ionity are still 69p per kWh
There's an option to pay a subscription for lower price per kWh. If its anything like the Tesla subscription service in The Netherlands you can take out the subscription for, say a month, if you were going on a road trip and passing a few Tesla hubs. Not like other subscriptions which lock you in for a year.
Ionity are at motorway services, so convenient stopping points (I see a lot of Teslas on Ionity chargers). I'm not knocking it, more options are great, but as a non-Tesla driver, it isn't a gamechanger.
Still a bit crap on the main north-south route in Wales though, the A470. I could top up in Brecon, but that's only 40 miles from home so it'd be slow and annoying, or I could take a 10 mile detour to Newtown to fill up mid-trip. But in both cases there's only a single charger there, that's the main issue. It's hard to rely on a single charger with 100 miles to the next one. We need more charging stations not single isolated chargers, which is why the Tesla announcement is so good.
Well Ionity are still 69p per kWh
There’s an option to pay a subscription for lower price per kWh. If its anything like the Tesla subscription service in The Netherlands you can take out the subscription for, say a month, if you were going on a road trip and passing a few Tesla hubs. Not like other subscriptions which lock you in for a year.
I got a free 1 year subscription from BMW for Ionity and BP pulse that gives you the reduced rate of 26p per Kwh. Trouble is whenever I have needed to charge there are none about 🙁
I have mostly used Instavolt or Gridserve when I have had to charge away from home which are around 50p .
My go-tos are Instavolt, Osprey and Gridserve.
I’m not knocking it, more options are great, but as a non-Tesla driver, it isn’t a gamechanger.
I think it might be if you regularly travelled into North Wales and it would be a game changer for me if they opened up the Tebay services superchargers then I could break my regular Scotland to England journey at the lovely Westmorland Services. Only two Gridverve chargers there at the moment so not worth taking a chance as I'd be on pretty low charge by then. As it stands I normally stop at Instavolt Penrith where there's a nice Booths restaurant.
I did a quick (3kWh) test charge at the trafford centre Tesla chargers last weekend...much to the confusion of the Tesla driver in the bay next to me 🙂
worked perfectly fine on my eNiro, the short cables just about reached if I parked really close to the unit
No doubt if Tesla were my best local option I would be very happy. On my current subscription car service I get free charging with BP pulse, which is a dreadful network. Too many single chargers and flaky machines.
I get free charging with BP pulse, which is a dreadful network.
I'm shocked and amazed! Who would have thought that an oil company could make a complete mess of an EV charging network?
Who would have thought that an oil company could make a complete mess of an EV charging network?
To be fair, a renewable energy company also made a mess of it, so I'm not sure it's a conspiracy.
Peugeot e208 going into the 2nd hand market – and good riddance. Awful bloody car
For interest, what was wrong with it? It was on my shortlist but I bought an e-Up.
From a few pages and weeks back.
So the e208 is really good looking and lovely to drive but the connectivity is dreadful. By that I mean the app and all those functions you rely on. The app is the worst app I've ever used. Takes 2 minutes to connect to the car, you have to login every time you open it and you can only have one login account that you need to share across all drivers. There's a connect to Peugeot button in the car so there's clearly a SIM in there somewhere but if you want to find your car you have to have remembered to drop a pin on the map in the app, which just uses Apple maps. AAARGH!
It's had a couple of software updates in the last 2 years. To update the car you need to do the following.
1 - Download the update to a laptop and then copy it on to a pen drive. The update is usually around 20gb so you need a 32gb pen drive! I used a 32gb memory card and a USB card reader.
2 - You insert the pen drive in the USB port in the car. Turn on the car while you are pressing the brake pedal and wait. After a few minutes it starts the update.
3 The Update can take up to 45 minutes during which time you MUST remain in the car with the seatbelt on.
4 - When the update is complete you find out that the update was for the satnav that your car doesn't have and you have wasted 45 minutes of your life replacing your cars software with the exact same software it already had.
It's had the on board charger replaced twice in 2 years. We don't have the 10 inch screen version so there's no built in satnav. We use Carplay but the issue is that carplay won't load if you start the car before you connect your phone. We've had the tyre inflation warning light on since we got it and even though it's been in the dealer 4 times in total for warranty work in 2 years they still haven't been able to find out what's wrong with it. The GOM (Guess o'meter) is useless. One day it's suggest we could get 250miles the next it's showing 120 - It showed 298miles once! We did 140 on that charge.
There's a whole load of other little bugbears with it. My old 30kw leaf was much better and got almost the same range as the e208. I was averaging 3.9m/kw in the Leaf. the E208 is about 3m/kw for us. It's a 50kw battery with 45kw of it useable.
It will be for sale when our EV6 turns up if anyone is interested 🙂
And I thought our Hyundai's electronics were annoying. That's horrendous.
the E208 is about 3m/kw for us
That's diabolical for a small car.