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Yes.
First trip back to the dealer was to have it all checked over to make sure the range wasn't being buggered by something. The fact we had a benchmark of 2 previous years with a Leaf reassured us that the crappy range wasn't of our own making.
I’m shocked and amazed! Who would have thought that an oil company could make a complete mess of an EV charging network?
whats chargeplacescotlands excuse for the shite connectivity and service availibility then ?
whats chargeplacescotlands excuse for the shite connectivity and service availibility then ?
SWARCO took over CPS back office operations from Charge Your Car in July 2021 at which point the network was in a sorry state. SWARCO have made some improvements but its been slow progress not helped by fragmented ownership and maintenance of the CPS chargers.
Oh and Charge Your Car is owned by BP Chargemaster. It used to be a decent network before BP bought it. Bit of a common theme here.
@Mark, thanks for that response. To be fair, the app for the eUp is pretty rubbish too. It sometimes struggles to connect, and it reports the range based on the consumption on the previous journey, or perhaps the previous 50km (it doesn't tell you, that's just from what I can see). But we get 5miles/kWh or better unless doing something like carrying a kayak on the roof bars on a motorway in winter.
Ive done 2000 miles in the MG 5 now, overall at 3.9 mi/kWh in a biggish estate.
the E208 is about 3m/kw for us
I think you must have a Friday afternoon car.☹️ I have a colleague who regularly gets 3.5 - 4.5 mpKWH out of an E2008, a bigger, heavier car, journey dependant of course.
What’s the thoughts on the current lack of availability and costs? If they become more available will the costs go down at all?
My company’s nervous about committing to a lease 8 months out in case unforseeen circumstances leave them with a car they don’t want, and I’d be committing to a current spec EV6 at the current lease prices until March 2026.
I’m kinda thinking I might wait a year and see what’s available then, there could be more options, better batteries, specs and lower lease prices maybe?
Availability is dependent on world politics, but seems a lot better for Korean, Chinese cars than German made ones. There's a big backlog on chips which will take time to clear out.
Batteries are already massively reduced compared to 10 or even 5 years ago so I don't think they can go much lower. They will always improve, and there will always be more options, but think incremental.
Lease prices, no idea. How d othey tie to interest rates?
Prices have gone up by around 20-30% on my Zenith car scheme dependent on the (electric) car. My numbers had it as costing me around £5.6k extra on a 3 year deal or similar to paying 40-44% of the forecourt price as opposed to around ~30% in December 2021.
Just look at the market - there's a lack of hire cars, a lack of second hand cars and more EVs were registered in Q1 of 2022 than in the previous 4 YEARS combined. Coupled with a lack of EVs entering the market - competition is high, deals are few.
A friends 1 year old Tesla M3 LR is worth £3k more than they paid for it a year ago. Not BEFORE the price hike - AFTER. Says it all really.
looking at options through a salary sacrifice deal with Tusker through work. My current PCP on my Q5 goes to Feb 24 so I have lots of time to decide, right....... oh, wait, a Q4 Etron, which I quite fancy is 77 week lead time....gulp, better get thinking next few months.. Some others, Model Y for one, are quoting a year plus too.
I look at the list price of EVs (and more widely, vechicles in general) here in the UK, then look at the US...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ford-f-150-lightning-563bhp-ev-pick-stars-manhattan
563bhp, 775lb ft, 2200lbs, 230-300 mile range, 0-60 4.0sec and starting at the equivalent of £28,200. It's an utterly vile pick-up of course, but all that for similar cost to Leafs, MINIs, Honda e, etc.
Yes EVs there are cheaper and there's a bigger government grant.
I think this is because demand is stratospheric here still and way outstrips supply, so they are priced accordingly. The above comments about 18+ month lead times even at current high prices shows that. But the US prices suggest to me* that there is room for them to drop much lower than they are now. And production capacity will come online. This is why I won't get another when ours goes back next year and we'll rely on busses and a bit of diesel for a couple of years.
* I am not an economist though
Well, I think that’s what we’ll do. The banger is on Euro 4 so that could be an issue if Sadiq Khans proposal to extend the emission zone to the m25 happens, but we may have to keep it for a year, or even swap,it for a cheap petrol runaround while we wait for the EV.
Seems little point in signing up now to a car I only half want and paying over the odds for it for 3 years.
563bhp, 775lb ft, 2200lbs, 230-300 mile range, 0-60 4.0sec and starting at the equivalent of £28,200. It’s an utterly vile pick-up of course, but all that for similar cost to Leafs, MINIs, Honda e, etc.
That would be easily be £50k+ if it were being sold here
That would be easily be £50k+ if it were being sold here
If you adjust the GBP price for a realistic exchange rate instead of the 1.41 that they use, add on the £10k US grant and add taxes we are in the same ballpark but it is a lot of car for the money if true.
If you adjust the GBP price for a realistic exchange rate instead of the 1.41 that they use, add on the £10k US grant and add taxes we are in the same ballpark but it is a lot of car for the money if true.
Erm - it's a £4.6k ($7.5k) grant and average state tax is 5%. Which means their driveaway price is <$30k.
The Mustang Mach E is £40k in the UK or $40k in the US after taxes and grants, So still 25% cheaper.
I think you must have a Friday afternoon car.
The early 208s were not the most efficient EVs. Peugeot soon changed the tyres, final drive ratio and heater/heat pump to gain 20 or so kms on the official test cycle. They were less than honest in the marketing of it IMO. Other manufacturers give the useable battery capacity rather than the total. For example the current Zoé 50 has a few kWh more than the declared 51kWH and the current Zoé 40 has exactly the same battery as the 50 but with much reduced useable capacity to make it last longer.
As for the tech issues that Mark has noted, they are are specific to Peugeot as other manufacturers have found better solutions.
Erm – it’s a £4.6k ($7.5k) grant and average state tax is 5%
Interested to know who is getting an exchange rate of 1.64 dollars to the £, lets call it £6k :-). VAT is our cross to bear so not relevant in comparing prices, Americans make up for this in many other forms of tax. The Daily Mail and Express can ignore VAT to make a point but I don't think we should. There are various state grants in addition to the federal grant and I heard quoted a $12.5k number somewhere 'all in' but I am not sure if there is a good method to verify that.
As I said it is still a great deal if true.
A ‘tyre tax’ will need to be imposed on electric cars to combat poor air quality in cities, the Government’s top clear air adviser has claimed.
The chairman of the Government's independent science advisory group on air pollution said charges for low-emission zones are likely to be replaced with alternative levies as drivers switch to electric vehicles.
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes, Professor Alastair Lewis said.
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes, Professor Alastair Lewis said.
Who's he being financed by? Sounds like bollocks to me, probably another thing based on fine particles rather than ultra fine particles which get through the exhaust filters.
An attempt at finding out who funds Professor Alastair Lewis stopped at "private benefactor".
The York university Wolfson institute he works at :
We support clients including BP, TOTAL, Unilever, Givaudan, Du Pont, and DSTL
Don't like the message. First reaction attack the messenger. It is well known that tyre wear produces harmful pollution.
Is DEFRA neutral enough for you?
Data from the UK National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory (NAEI) indicate that
emissions of non-exhaust particles from road transport already exceed those from the
exhaust, and their proportion is projected to increase in the future. Therefore, to achieve
further improvements to PM2.5 and PM10 air quality relating to road transport sources requires
attention to reducing NEE, and not solely on approaches focused on lowering exhaust
emissions
Because fossil cars don't have tyre wear?
And tyre wear is less significant at the lower urban speeds. I can't see EV tyre wear being a significant contributor to urban AQ emissions.
I'm calling bollocks on the claim that:
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes,
In itself the claim lacks detail. I don't contest that tyre particles are unhealthy what I contest is that they are more dangerous to public health given the disparity in volumes of tyre particles and the volumes of nano and ultra-fine particles produced by diesel engines. Which just so happen to be the most dangerous to health, are not monitored and aren't stopped by the filter.
So now instead of just driving EVs we now need to ban rubber tyres too?
This is the same claptrap as the "EVs make more brake dust" rubbish regularily spouted by people who have never driven an EV and don't realise you just about never engage the friction brakes because you can regen.
If tyre wear in town is an issue, then it can be reduced for all means of transport by
1) introducing maximium acceleration rate ie no more booting away from the lights
2) introducing maximum corner speeds - no more rocketing round corners
the future sounds like fun doesn't it......
That DEFRA report is using some spurious data. By 2025, almost 75% of UK car and commercial vehicle sales are now likely to be EVs. As pointed out above, you barely use the brakes on EVs, so why does brake dust particle production INCREASE out to 2030? It will drop to almost nothing.
Anecdotal evidence - my i3 has done 65k miles and is still on its original lightweight discs and pads.
If it's from the Telegraph, then the usual gong-farmers will have had their input.
Classic "They're looking to cut emissions, even your tyres aren't safe. Better drop pledges for net-zero, that'll show them".
Who’s he being financed by? Sounds like bollocks to me, probably another thing based on fine particles rather than ultra fine particles which get through the exhaust filters.
I'm not saying that plastic shed by tyres aren't a problem, it's just that the Telegraph has form for this sort of thing of late.
My 10-year-old Dacia Lodgy is also still on its original hardly worn discs and pads, but that is down to driving style. On my Samba rally car it was a set every couple of hundred miles.
I've done a bit of reading around and have come to the conclusion that at chemical engineer is not the best person to be making bold statement about the respecitve impact of tyre particles and diesel particles on health. Doctors took decades to prove smoking cigarettes was a problem, lead in petrol was a problem, radio activity is nastier than initially thought etc. etc. whilst fighting other doctors working for the tobaco industry, motor lobby, nuclear lobby etc. etc. and their red herrings. Empirically nano/ultra fine diesel particles containing a number of proven carcinogens are the health issue we should be addessing first because we can. Go EV.
well, order placed this morning with Tusker through work. 77 week delivery on an Audi Q4 etron, which will be a few months before end of current PCP !
I will need to have a think about best option for getting a home charger installed..
I would expect a slight increase in tyre particulates in towns due to EVs being overall slightly heavier, but I wouldn't expect much. But I'm not an air quality expert.
The lack of brake activation is actually causing issues with brakes when you do need them.
Actually have data showing that a significant percentage of users can go an entire service interval and only activate friction brakes a countable (fingers and toes) number of times. Usually at low speed as well, so not putting any heat into the discs. So there are processes in place to try and fix/mitigate against this.
Tyre wear is a funny one. Lots of things increase wear, (torque, weight) but others can reduce it if done properly (lower centre of gravity so less roll and pitch, better torque control during launch and deceleration etc etc) do it wrong and you can make it worse though.
Interesting. I tried flooring my Ioniq from a standstill on a dry road and it really backed off the power until I was up to about 20mph, pretty much eliminating the possibility of wheelspin. I didn't hear any slipping or see a traction light so I don't think it was traction control doing it. Might explain why the car seems to accelerate 30-60 far quicker than it's published 0-60 time would suggest.
Iain C - I’m interested in your decision making, don’t you think that there may be better EV options available within your 77 month wait rather than committing to a Q4 now?
77 week delivery estimate on an Audi Q4 etron
FTFY. Hey, who knows, it might get shorter as supply chains get better and VAG get more efficient in their EV manufacture.
Kryton57
Full Member
Iain C – I’m interested in your decision making, don’t you think that there may be better EV options available within your 77 month wait rather than committing to a Q4 now?
good point, the way the Tusker deal works is that you can cancel right up till near delivery date so no risks in it. Its 77 weeks, not months 🙂
Aha, ok thanks. Part of my decision was the fact the dealer has a £500 cancellation/change fee.
The lack of brake activation is actually causing issues with brakes when you do need them.
I always use friction braking for my first slowdown of the day for just this reason. Scrub the surface of corrosion/contaminant and get a bit of heat into the pads.
Sounds like bollocks to me, probably another thing based on fine particles rather than ultra fine particles which get through the exhaust filters.
Have you actually read the article?
Particles from tyre wear are more dangerous to public health than diesel exhaust fumes, Professor Alastair Lewis said.
Known as “particulate matter (PM) 2.5”, the amount of air pollution is growing because motorists are driving ever larger vehicles with more substantial tyres.
Now I agree, it does sound spurious but lets not forget the equal amount of derision when people were being told wood burners were "bad"* not that many years ago.
As for funding, he works for the National Centre for Atmospheric Science which is itself funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and UK Research and Innovation. Given those are the credentials given in the article I'd expect that's who is speaking for as otherwise he'd be getting his baws rattled.
I’ve done a bit of reading around and have come to the conclusion that at chemical engineer is not the best person to be making bold statement about the respecitve impact of tyre particles and diesel particles on health.
Oh but of course, you are 🙄
Perhaps once you get a paper on the subject published in a journal you can start telling other folk how to do their job but until then...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231021004143?via%3Dihub
*bad under the same condisions as a diesel engine
I always use friction braking for my first slowdown of the day for just this reason. Scrub the surface of corrosion/contaminant and get a bit of heat into the pads.
Which car? As many EVs you don't have the option to do this. Unless you slam the brakes on and exceed the limit for regen.
You can reduce the deceleration rate at zero pedal (One Pedal Drive) but you can't choose where the braking torque comes from.
Doesn’t Daffy just mean they use the brake pedal to stop ?
In most newer EV platforms launched over the last handful of years, using the brake pedal just requests regen from the motors. You have to properly stamp on it to get the friction brakes to start moving.
Early EVs had brake pedal = friction brakes. Now, not so much.
From the article abstract
The introduction of battery electric vehicles is concluded to have only a small effect on overall road traffic particle emissions
Seems to be a non-issue (for now anyway). I suspect my 1.8 tonne Kia e-Niro outputs less tyre and brake particulate than a 2.2 tonne ICE BMW X5
I found this passage interesting. Shows how well exhaust catalysts work these days
Emissions from solvents in screen wash and de-icers now dominate VOC emissions from traffic in the UK, and exhibit a very different composition to exhaust VOC emissions.
.
Seems to be a non-issue (for now anyway). I suspect my 1.8 tonne Kia e-Niro outputs less tyre and brake particulate than a 2.2 tonne ICE BMW X5
Sure, but your e-niro is about the same size as my c-max, which weighs 1.3 tonnes.
Which car? As many EVs you don’t have the option to do this. Unless you slam the brakes on and exceed the limit for regen.
BMW i3. Regen is from lifting off the accelerator. Using the brake pedal activates the friction brakes.