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Has anyone got any experience of the electric mini? We’re pleased with the petrol one, just contemplating if it would suit my wife for when we replace it.
Test drove one as it wasn't a terrible price
Nice drive , comfy cab. But economy takes a serious hit at 70 from the headline figures which rendered it useless for my purposes. On B roads at 55 it returns close to advertised range
Sub 100 mile range which leaves me short for client visits.
It's also a sizable car for limited interior space -
Tldr: wasn't sure why I'd buy one over a Zoe.
But in the end I bought a tiny 3cyl petrol as I didn't need another car that size.
Thanks TR. I did think the range was a bit on the low side. Hopefully they'll have fixed that by the time we're in a position to do something about it
How often are you actually driving to the maximum range of your car? I’ve done it about three times in the year I’ve had it. None of this is as big of a problem as people think.
My commute use to be a 100 mile round trip, and still is if I need to go to the office - no charger at office. I've also probably done in excess of 400 miles in a day half a dozen times in a 'normal' year. We do a 320 mile round trip once a month to see the grandkids, so I'd prefer something that could at least get there without charging. I use to do 30k pa, but now with Covid etc it's dropped to 10k.
You can wear gloves until the wheel warms up.
You can wear warmer clothes.
It's 2022 not the bloody 70's.
@StuF I’m also interested in the Mini, my i3 I’d due to go in August.
I’ve not been in one, I believe it uses the same motor as i3 but at the other end of the car - so it’ll be quick enough, won’t be the most efficient EV and should generally be very reliable.
My concern is comments about the range being a bit low in the winter for me. I *think* the battery is the same size as the previous i3, so maybe only 100 miles range in the winter 120 in summer. Don’t take this as gospel though but definitely worth checking if you need the range.
I’m trying to get my lease extended for another year as the i3 really is perfect for us and you can’t order one anymore. Our company has changed to a new lease supplier and the prices for anything to replace it with aren’t great compared to what I’m paying now.
Or what trail rat said 🙂
Heated seats have negligible impact on range. Cabin heating depends on whether you have a heat pump or electric fire kind of heater, but ultimately reduced range in cold temperatures is more down to battery inefficiency in the cold than keeping the car warm.
Absolutely. The heated seats doesn’t even register a change the predicted range, heating does but by keeping it low, on eco mode and around 19c it also has little effect. As mention is really cold weather pre-heating so the battery warms makes up for any lost range.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that's with experienced users !
What I will say is they John Clark do give good test runs of the mini they are pushing hard to get you in an electric car . Got 48 hours our of them pre-booked well in advance hence I got to determine real world range.
By comparison when I enquired about an E up at VW. They wanted me to take an UP GTi out as a comparible vehicle....
Has anyone got any experience of the electric mini? We’re pleased with the petrol one, just contemplating if it would suit my wife for when we replace it.
If your wife only does short commutes and you have another car to cover longer runs, it could be worth considering. But I have an I3s and honestly don't think I'd want a car with less range than that. Could be because I've not really embraced public charging yet though. My commute is about 35 miles rtn.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
If you look at the differences over the last few years, range is increasing pretty fast in general. I think it's just an adjustment to get used to, in my case I just need to get more comfortable with public charging, but the range has been an issue twice in 10 months of ownership. In that time, fuel and tax savings are £2-2.5k from my previous car. That's balancing well against any anxiety!
We have an electric Mini. We love it, but yes the range is really quite small - 100 miles in the winter, 125 in the summer, but then who buys a Mini to do hundreds of miles? It's extremely quick up to about 90, but it won't go faster (almost the same acceleration as the 2.0l Mini John Cooper Works I think). We live just outside one of those cruising spots they like to get injunctions for and I very much enjoy silently keeping pace with the boy racers and their cherry-popper exhausts. Tosspots.
We've done trips to Manchester and Bristol from Worcester a few times in it (to see the kids at their respective locations) just to see how easy it is and had no problems: In the summer we can get all the way to Manchester on one charge but usually stop on the way and charge at Lymm or similar just to be sure. The fast chargers really don't take long to stick some power in there.
The small battery means is charges quickly (basically empty to full on the overnight 4-hour Octopus Go tariff) so it's always ready to go in the morning for £1.44 for a full charge (we're still on the 5p/kwh at the moment)
One thing I will say is that the range display seems quite conservative, and for the price you can have something bigger with more bells and whistles.
How many times have you got close to needing that range though?
Stockholm to Vansbro is 300-ish km And that's close to max range during winter. It's less from Uppsala, but getting back with less than a full charge at Christmas was a little nerve wracking. Vansbro has two chargers and is on the way to the mountains, so was being hogged by Teslas topping up on the way to skiing. Other than that, it's finding a charger in Borlänge.
June will see us going to Östersund and that _will_ require us to be 100% when we leave the house and find a quick charger in Sundsvall that can put us to 85%.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
No, not in the least. The car doesn't just conk out on you randomly. It tells you how far you've got left, and where the charging stations are. You can stop on the way and charge! And you don't have to wait til you're empty either, you can top up half way, or whenever you pass a station.
Example: My car does about 180 miles on a charge give or take. At Easter we're going to a place near Aberystwyth which is 100 miles away, and there's no charger at the destination. Oh no! But wait, let me check Zap Map - there's plenty of chargers in Aberystwyth itself. Tesco, Morrison's and Lidl all have rapid chargers. We can check into the self catering accomodation at 3pm so we'll drive to Tesco, buy our food, charge the car (which will be on 40% or so by then) and then go and check in. Zero anxiety.
The one time I did slow down to preserve range, I didn't have to, I did it because I realised it was going to save time. On that trip I drove past about four charging stations because I knew I didn't need them. If I really were worried I'd have stopped and whacked 10 mins in which would easily have given me enough to get home at 70mph.
All it takes is a little bit of planning, which isn't really an issue, you just have to pay a tiny bit of attention. If you're one of those people who never look at your dash, then, well, you've got other problems besides that.
I'll concede the charging situation within Mid Wales is shit though. If I wanted to go to say Coed y Brenin, I'd probably divert through Newtown, only a few miles out of my way, or Llanidloes for a rapid charger. There are quite a few more 22kW chargers though which could work. Definitely slower than diesel though, but that's a Mid-Wales thing. Not an issue for most of the country.
But I'll put up with that, because driving with diesel is ten times the price.
I recently gave up on eco mode for open road driving. The HVAC is meant to be less efficient in normal mode, but it seems to have made no different to the range and the car is more comfortable. I set the heating to 21 or 20 and drive with a jumper on, which I never used to, but this is mostly because the vents are annoyingly positioned and blow air onto my bare arms.
When I'm driving my ID3 alone I have the cabin heating on at 16 or 17C. I then use the heated seat and wheel to keep me warm. They don't tend to affect the range as much as running the cabin warmer. It seems silly to heat the whole car for just me when I can have a fleece on and warm back and hands.
Putting the AC on for cold in the summer is the real range knobbler though.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
Honestly I don't think some of the posts here are typical of the average driver driving a modern EV with decent 250-300 mile range. I've been driving electric for 18 months now, including long journeys, and never contemplated or needed to turn off the HVAC to eek out range. I did once at the start of a long jouney, with 100% battery, switch off the HVAC and my predicted range increased by about 12 miles (Kia e-Niro 64kWh battery) so I switched it back on and continued in comfort.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
Nah! it makes such little difference it causes no concerns. I’ve yet to experience range anxiety, they charge so much faster now and bigger range it’s not really an issue.
But I’ll put up with that, because driving with diesel is ten times the price.
Remind us how much your car actually costs per mile, all costs covered. My 2018 diesel is sat at just under 50ppm if sold today.
Remind us how much your car actually costs per mile, all costs covered.
About 26p, bear in mind that's a brand new motor.
But I think it's rather foolish to conflate running costs with purchase price. One is operational expenditure, the other is capital expenditure. You buy the car to have the capability to drive whenever you want in general, but each journey is made for a specific purpose so the cost of the fuel is made against the value of that journey. That's how people actually use cars.
I don't know, given the amount you are all going on about using the AC or heating..... especially if you've a Mini that will only do 100 miles (and just how expensive are they to purchase).
I'm assuming AC in an electric car is mechanically very similar to an ICE car. Then not using it will cause additional issues with seals not being lubricated properly etc. Use it or lose it with AC.
I’m assuming AC in an electric car is mechanically very similar to an ICE car. Then not using it will cause additional issues with seals not being lubricated properly etc. Use it or lose it with AC.
Varies a bit, I think. AIUI if you have a heat pump it is always moving heat around between cabin, coolant and battery anyway regardless of what you've set the AC to..
We tried a Polestar. Ours never came before we told them to stick it. Merc EQA is incoming now.
We did have a loan top of the range Polestar for a month, it was nice but have found we can get a EQA fully tricked out and similar/slightly better range for £50 a month less
The Zoé heat pump gets used every journey and charge to keep the battery at optimum temperature.
I've turned the heater off/down on a few long trips where it's going to cost time either driving slower or charging but on trips that won't require a charge don't worry about it.
I found this whilst googling. Doesn't say what spec the tested cars were - things like heat pumps are standard in some geos but not others.
But I think it’s rather foolish to conflate running costs with purchase price. One is operational expenditure, the other is capital expenditure. You buy the car to have the capability to drive whenever you want in general, but each journey is made for a specific purpose so the cost of the fuel is made against the value of that journey. That’s how people actually use cars.
its alot like those folk that spent a fortune to get zero tax cars ..... to save 200 quid a year.
smoke and mirrors maths.
My experience with using the heater (it doesn't have a heat pump) and electric seat were the basis for my comment that it affected the range. On a journey I do regularly without using the heat, I saw reduction to 65% of the range when using seat heat and A/C on 20º - some of that would have been down low battery temp as it was cold, but I'd been kayaking and had cold hands and damp stuff in the car so was using proportionately more heat.
even if the heating draws 2kW the whole time it’s on
The car (VW e-Up) draws about 7kW on average on the journey I'm comparing, so if the heating was 2kW that would be reducing to range to 78%.
The loss of range wasn't a worry as I had plenty of range left and could recharge at home.
so if the heating was 2kW that would be reducing to range to 78%.
That was an extreme example, actual consumption will be far less. A 2kW heater in a small enclosed space running continuously would bake you.
According to the app, today's short slow urban commute has used 73% of consumed energy for driving and 10% for climate control, on a chilly-ish morning.
@molgrips that chart is meaningless without any other info, and looks like it was done by Hyundai…
I’ve just had a play on the way to work, i3S 120Ah without optional heat pump.
Sitting at a comfortable 18*C with the climate control on auto my range was 112 miles. Turning all Climate off I gained just 4miles. Pressing the “Max A/C” button reduced the range by 4 miles. The only thing that made any considerable difference was putting the heat to max and turning the fan right up, reduced the range by about 15 miles.
I think that even with the aircon off in the i3 the compressor is still running to cool the electrics, so any cooling inside the car is negligible to battery.
Heating obviously makes more difference but at normal temperatures (eg not 28degrees) I don’t think it makes any really difference to worry about.
If I was always trying to get the maximum range out of mine then I should have added the heat pump, but In don’t need to.
Anyone driving with gloves and hat on probably bought the wrong car or should embrace public charging.
About 26p, bear in mind that’s a brand new motor.
I'm confused - what is actually in this 26ppm?
Lease cost per year/10k miles + average leccy cost per mile.
Ok it's slightly more than that given some away-from-home charging and I may not cover the full 10k miles of the lease this year, but as said I'm not lumping the cost of the car and the cost per journey together.
Interesting to hear everyone's experiences. I'd been wondering if running my leaf climate control at 18 degrees* (rather than warmer) gave me any extra range. I suspect not measurably so.
*because that's the temp I find comfortable, no other reason
Also seems to depend on the car - 21 in the Merc is really quite warm, 21 in the Hyundai is a bit chilly. Both are supposedly climate controlled.
Lease cost per year/10k miles + average leccy cost per mile.
Hmm, any chance you could tell us the actually running cost, otherwise based on your calc my diesel is far cheaper* to run.
And even though I've, what most folk will consider, an expensive car (replacement costs circa £47k), in EV terms it's bottom end. Looks like I'll be avoiding them for a while longer...
* at £1.70pl for 50mpg it's only 15ppm since I own the car...
otherwise based on your calc my diesel is far cheaper* to run.
My maths got here as well without using man math to justify low point of use cost.
Total cost of against a cheap petrol car when I did my maths accounted for enough fuel to do enough miles to see the car scrapped from corrosion in my neck of the woods.
Just seen that the Citroen Ami will be AM licence class so OK for a 16 year old. My daughter is 16 later this year...
Any idea how you do an AM class driving test?
<edit>looks like a standard moped test</edit>
climate control at 18 degrees* <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">*because that’s the temp I find comfortable, no other reason</span>
I’m always surprised when this topic comes up on the i3 FB group, there’s a lot of people that set their car to 21 degrees or more, by which point I’m melting. 18 or a degree either side is comfortable.
I’m always surprised when this topic comes up on the i3 FB group, there’s a lot of people that set their car to 21 degrees or more, by which point I’m melting. 18 or a degree either side is comfortable.
Maybe you're carry more 'insulation' than me 🙂
Also while I've the AC at 21c I also play with the cold air on the vents.
And even though I’ve, what most folk will consider, an expensive car (replacement costs circa £47k), in EV terms it’s bottom end.
Look at lease.
I agree that using an existing ICE car will be cheaper than buying a new electric, but that's hardly a like for like comparison.
And yes buying EVs new can be expensive, but leases seem to be very good value.
I've said before on here we got a really great lease price through a corporate scheme (NHS), paid through salary sacrifice (thus avoiding a chunk of higher rate tax), and it was 0% benefit-in-kind tax due to being electric (that has now risen to 2% I believe but still good).
but leases seem to be very good value.
Any examples of this good value ? More so on vehicles availible now....and not restricted to those on employee only deals ? With (for intheborders comparison....useful milage limitations)
at £1.70pl for 50mpg it’s only 15ppm since I own the car…
I never understand this argument, proper 'man-maths' if ever I read it. Yes, you own a car outright now, but it won't last forever, so presumably unless you plan on this being your last car ever, you are having to squirrel an amount away each month to save for the next, or you will have to take a loan (or HP etc.) Either way, that still represents a ppm 'cost' to you. Take the cost of a £10k car you buy outright, driven for 5 years at 12k miles a year, that's still cost you nearly 17ppm over the lifetime of that vehicle. (after 5 years the residual value will just about cover inflation - your £2k selling price will be now be used against the £12k 'same' car. That's money you are having to put away from day one of owning the 'new' car ready for the next purchase. YMMV (literally) but one thing it isn't is 0ppm.
That holds true if your next lease is also free I guess.
FWIW, the Climate systems in most cars are rated between about 5 and 9kW. Not 2kW.
There's a set of defrosting/deicing legal requirements that drives the dimensioning.
That's one reason why very short/local journeys are so bad. The climate system uses a shed load of energy to heat the car up/dry out the air/cool the car before there is any useable spare heat from the motor/battery/engine.
Then you park up and walk round Aldi and the car goes to ambient temp again.
Heat pumps are better, but only marginally.
Once you're up to temp, and everything is warm, the AC is essentially only using the energy needed to dry the intake air out. So a couple of kW, plus whatever extra heating/cooling is needed.
TR: Nobody said it was. A few people here claiming that owning cars outright =0ppm after fuel/servicing.
The climate system uses a shed load of energy to heat the car up/dry out the air/cool the car before there is any useable spare heat
You can improve efficiency (at least in mine) by telling it when you’re leaving so it heats the battery and car up whilst plugged in. Obviously it uses mains electric to do it but improves your range, until you’ve parked in Aldi for some time - I have no idea how long that time is but I suspect it takes quite a while to fully cool.
Must have missed the one claiming that.
My maths over 5 cars (between me and the wife) I've owned over the last 18 years suggests the cost per mile is actually pretty low. Never had a car only last 5 years though.
Hmm, any chance you could tell us the actually running cost, otherwise based on your calc my diesel is far cheaper* to run.
For fuel it's usually about 1p a mile for me, that looks like going up to 1.5p in July when my fixed tariff ends. That's a tenth the cost of a diesel journey. I rarely need to fill up at a public charger but they are about 40p so you can do the maths.
Driving to my parents costs more on coffee than it does on fuel. It's so cheap as to be trivial.
I’ve, what most folk will consider, an expensive car (replacement costs circa £47k), in EV terms it’s bottom end.
No, bottom end EVs are about £27k if you don't count super minis. £47k is mid range and yes, it's a lot.